CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 7

[Angelo]

They were all with him on the night before he went missing, right? Who can verify that he actually was at the house when the SIL came to do something? Has anyone actually confirmed that Bob was there on Monday? Maybe he came to make sure there was nothing that they overlooked the night before? This could be the reason there are discrepancies in the timeline of the day he went missing. Could be he was never there that day.
Just my musings.

Fontelle spoke to Mr. Harrod the evening of July 26, 2009 after the daughters and SIL left his house. Mr. Harrod told Fontelle about the heated meeting. Someone outside of the family, most likely the housekeeper, spoke to Mr. Harrod early in the morning of July 27, 2009.

 

[Angelo]

Why wouldn't he take his friggen dirty $$$ with him, then we wouldn't think we were expected to properly manage things in his absence.

I suppose "properly manage" is open to interpretation given the trial set for October.

The above set of posts culled by cloud is ludicrous in the context of the memoribilia list presented by those children. You know, the one that left virtually no trace of Bob inside of his own house, with the exception of the items they deemed unworthy, or the one's Fontelle's attorney dug in to keep in tact.

And they know it.

There is nothing that can be said, implied, shouted from the roof tops which explains the moving target of a timeline, the shredding of their father on the www, and the rapid acquisition of the assets their father took a life time to build.

Let's get down to brass tacks-how much is left?

BBM~~~~~

Great question. For all their claims of not wanting their father's money, I would love to know how they have been spending it!!!!

 

[Cazzie]

Sounds more like she is giving her BIL (JeM) an alibi.


(Daughter P)"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."

Freudian slip?

I shudder to think what (if anything) anyone may have said to Bob shortly before he "disappeared". But from reading words from the daughters, I have a feeling that they routinely told him exactly what they think, without any respect that he surely earned over so many years. I guess if you don't hand over all your assets to your children before you die, you don't get respect (in some families)?

(sorry, Angelo, I had to unbold part of your quote in order to bold what I'm commenting on)

 

[nanny2five]

Sounds more like she is giving her BIL (JeM) an alibi.


(Daughter P)"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."

bbm this is the part i do not understand. back in the old days it would be understandable that one might not know the exact time a phone call took place, but in this day and age i do not believe she doesn't know the exact time that she last spoke to her father. did she even speak to him at all? does she want to cause more confusion by not telling the truth about it?

 

[nanny2five]

I'd encourage anyone reading here to take a glance at the legal document linked below --

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #5

While it is a pdf document and lengthy, it's also rich and dense.

There is a point in it where (mods please edit me if this one word is too much) Bob's relationship with his daughters was characterized as one of 'torment'. (Torment of which, as you can read, Bob was not the source.)

I also seem to remember that it is documented somewhere that Bob begged his daughters away from him for some period of time, and even gave money to encourage them? I think we have a media source?)

Montjoy, i can't get the pdf to load but i think i understand. i knew a family in which the children were so disrespectful and greedy that the parents practically threw the money at them and told them to go and never come back. it was a sad mess and the parents later said it was easier for them to live in peace than to worry about what the kids might be thinking or planning behind their backs. i don't think they were worried about murder though, more along the lines of having them declared unable to care for their own stuff. the parents are both gone now and the kids have nothing. they traded a relationship with their parents for a little cash in the moment and now they have neither.

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

So far I've read about a quarter of the posts here and a few of the links. It sure looks to me like Bob's Son-In-Law murdered him. And murder is morally wrong and legally a crime.

Now, at the risk of being misjudged here, I'd like to caution against viewing Bob as some kind of saint. He was old but not necessarily sweet, nice, competent or even a decent human being.

My own father passed away in January at age 80. As both my parents got older they became more and more mistrustful and paranoid, for no real reason at all. And now, my mother is more demanding and belligerent than she was before. A friend who is a psychologist said that as most people get older they acquire an attitude of 'entitlement'.

My mother is now housed in a beautiful, brand new assisted living facility. She pays $2700/mo for a spacious one bedroom unit. Her laundry is done, she gets 3 good meals a day, they have a large swimming pool, workout room, pool table, games, a movie theater, day trips and a bus that takes them to appointments and shopping. My sister drives an hour at least twice a month to visit and takes care of all her paperwork. Yet, my mother complains to anyone who will listen, that she is in "prison" and "suffering"! She has the residents and staff convinced that no one is "helping" her.:maddening:

My mother still has a house 15 minutes from my sister, where she and my father lived for 25 years. But she refuses to stay alone in the crime-free, gated community for more than a few hours. She won't live with my sister because she feels my sister shouldn't go anywhere and leave her there alone for a few hours. She will not move to the state where I reside and feels I should give up my entire life and pets to live with her in her small, 2 bedroom house as if I were 10 years old.

It is obvious to family members that my mother is in the very early stages of dementia, or something. But she can carry on a casual conversation like nothing is wrong. Unless Loomis (?) is a licensed psychiatrist who was treating Bob, in no way can he determine Bob's mental condition.

The children could have been doing everything in their power to help him and protect his assets from the new wife. That is quite understandable, and actually an expected response to such a quick marriage. My guess is that the meeting became very heated. One of the daughters could possibly have lashed out at him in a fit of rage, killing him on the spot. Either the SIL went back the following day to clean things up, or he murdered Bob the following day.

Somehow, I think this will eventually be solved.

 

[suzyq211]

Now, at the risk of being misjudged here, I'd like to caution against viewing Bob as some kind of saint. He was old but not necessarily sweet, nice, competent or even a decent human being.

<respectfully snipped for space>

I agree. Everyone has faults, some more than others! I just feel that whatever the dynamics were in that family, the dirty, no FILTHY laundry should not have been aired on the WWW at a crucial time when searches and vigils might have changed this whole outcome. You never know.

I read some of the stories about Bob...his taking care of his first wife, next his dying dog. His friend P.E. posted about how generous Bob was. Whatever he was, he did not deserve what he got in the end.

 

[cloudajo]

Sounds more like she is giving her BIL (JeM) an alibi.

(Daughter P)"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."

To expand on this...

Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come. (Ref OC Register)

About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready. Michaels told police that he worked at the home, then went to Home Depot about 2:40 p.m. to buy supplies. (Ref LA Times)

Officials have said that at 10 a.m. July 27 there was a phone call to Bob Harrod, which is the last time anyone other than Jeff Michaels verified he was at the house. Police are not releasing the content of those phone records. (Ref comment posted by reporter under OC Register article)

According to what Julie told Fontelle, Bob was last seen by Jeff at about 11:00AM (Ref Missing Persons Report)

After the Fact Alibi for JeM?

11:00AM-12:00 – Per Paula, she called and spoke to Bob during this time. She said she heard her BIL say he was going to the hardware store and her father “responded in a favorable way.” She also posted that her number “came up as private.” (Ref: NAMUS report published Aug 18, 2009 and August 11, 2009 post by Paula on IS forum) Note: This call has not been publically verified and it is unknown whether it took place.

According to Roberta, “The police have not revealed the phone records but each of my sisters said called Dad early that day, the latest of their two calls was around 11:45, as that call was completed just before noon. Dad gave my sister the impression that he had received a number of calls that morning but, I know Dad did not usually like talking on the phone and would often "rush" callers off. He always acted like he preferred to be left alone, that the telephone was just a bother. Dad had an answering machine but wouldn't turn it on, so .......” (Ref Sep 30, 2010 post by Roberta on another forum)


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,5316687,comment-display-all.story
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels?orderby=TimeStampAscending&showRecommendedOnly=1&oncommentsPage=2#slComments

 

[cloudajo]

Very convenient answers from daughter RB when asked about the timeline, what the PI they hired and paid for uncovered, and other questions… Some serious dancing around the truth going on, IMO. BBM.


Other than I don't know what time he left for HD, it seems basically correct, according to what I've been told.

Our PI was retained to respectfully conduct a thorough investigation in total cooperation with the police with only general milestones being reported back to us.

They must not jeopardize the REAL investigation, so media reports are not entirely reliable and can be very misleading.

I do not drill them for answers since I fully respect the need for total confidentiality and do not want to jeopardize the investigation in anyway.

I wouldn't want to in any way jeopardize the investigation and have expressed this to Det. Radomski many times.

 

[believe09]

Our PI was retained to respectfully conduct a thorough investigation in total cooperation with the police with only general milestones being reported back to us.

This was one of the many statements that showed to me that the girls were perhaps not being truthful. Who spends the money on a PI and then agrees that they wont be told anything? Ludicrous.

Right there in line with the rationale for not calling in a MP report themselves, but calling Fontelle at midnight and telling her to do it, and feeding the whole "black Tahoe" story to her..."they thought they had to wait", and I remember also reading that PPD never called RB back, and....yada yada yada.

Patently untrue, especially for a seasoned department such as PPD. JMVHO. We have seen the log sheets for calls associated with that residence from 7/27/2009.

 

[believe09]

Welcome to Bob's case, Cracka! I dont believe Bob is an angel for sure, but the circumstances of this disappearance/homicide are difficult for me to swallow. Really difficult.

The fact is that Bob was a fully formed adult who was entitled to what he pleased with his money, and that included marrying the love of his life. I would be tempted to agree with you regarding the desire to "protect" the estate but we would then have to establish, in a concrete fashion, that the new wife was going after it.

Personally, I dont believe that has been established. From what I can see, she has never filed a request to have control of it. Wouldnt that be an essential start for an attempt to bleed it dry? JMO.

What we do know is that there are handwritten notes, in Bob's handwriting, that indicate he was adding his wife to his estate planning. We have a reference to a deposition(s) of the daughters that indicate they were told by Bob himself on the day before his disappearance that he was adding his wife to his estate planning.

Then we have a disappearance the very next morning before everything and anything could be put into place.

Could it have been a heated exchange that went out of control? Sure, I mean that is a good guess and one we have talked about too. Then why not come clean? Why not call 911 and fess up and get Bob help? A&B, especially a domestic one, pales in comparison to the consequences of killing someone, covering it up and hiding the body....especially for this length of time.

I keep being drawn to the Lynsie Eklund case because it happened in OC, was managed by PPD and OCSO as well. Lynsie was murdered (perp claimed heat of the moment) and buried at a job site the perp was familiar with. 9 years later, he confessed and led LE to her body. He is charged with 1st degree murder.

The clock is ticking here-someone can share what they know and fill in some blanks here, if not for Bob then for themselves and their family. Again JMVHO.

 

[SuziQ]

Very convenient answers from daughter RB when asked about the timeline, what the PI they hired and paid for uncovered, and other questions… Some serious dancing around the truth going on, IMO. BBM.


Other than I don't know what time he left for HD, it seems basically correct, according to what I've been told.

Our PI was retained to respectfully conduct a thorough investigation in total cooperation with the police with only general milestones being reported back to us.

They must not jeopardize the REAL investigation, so media reports are not entirely reliable and can be very misleading.

I do not drill them for answers since I fully respect the need for total confidentiality and do not want to jeopardize the investigation in anyway.

I wouldn't want to in any way jeopardize the investigation and have expressed this to Det. Radomski many times.

I love public comments from homicide suspects.

 

[cloudajo]

This was one of the many statements that showed to me that the girls were perhaps not being truthful. Who spends the money on a PI and then agrees that they wont be told anything? Ludicrous.

[snipped]

Exactly. It just doesn't happen. Period.

 

[Angelo]

(Daughter P)"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."
__________________

Again, the wording of this post by daughter P is very strange. I am trying to envision how this conversation transpired.

PB: Hi dad. Is that the sound of home repairs and odd jobs I hear?

Mr. Harrod: Yes, JeM stopped by to work on some small projects.

PB: Dad, did I just hear JeM say he is going to the hardware store.

Mr. Harrod: You sure did. I gave him a thumbs up.

PB: Ok dad. I'll let you go and talk to you later.

____________________

 

[Angelo]

So for all the protestations to the contrary, the daughters stated under oath that there was a money fight on the day before Bob disappeared and that Bob intended to add his new wife to his estate planning.

Well then. Game over regarding the sparring over this.

Yes, the daughters have tried to change the facts of the heated July 26, 2009 meeting with their father.

"The day before he disappeared, his daughters - PB, RB and JM - came to his home in Placentia, Calif. The four argued about money, police say."

http://poststar.com/lifestyles/article_f7099e98-12d4-11df-ad7f-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[Angelo]

At the end of June 2009, Mr. Harrod told at least one of his daughters about Fontelle and that she was in Ca. visiting him. He also told her they planned to get married. A month later Mr. Harrod disappears.

It would be interesting to know the content of any emails, letters and phone calls sent or made by the daughters after they learned of Fontelle and their father's plan to marry her. What were they saying to each other and others about their father and Fontelle.

 

[cloudajo]

Yes, the daughters have tried to change the facts of the heated July 26, 2009 meeting with their father.

"The day before he disappeared, his daughters - PB, RB and JM - came to his home in Placentia, Calif. The four argued about money, police say."

http://poststar.com/lifestyles/article_f7099e98-12d4-11df-ad7f-001cc4c002e0.html

July 27, 2009 – What Bob’s Grandson AH Said

Andrew continued and said that there had been fighting in the family recently and Robert was very frustrated over the situation. (Ref Missing Persons Report)
​

August 11, 2009 – What Bob’s Daughter PB Said

There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms. (Ref PB’s post on another forum)
​

October 8, 2009 – What Bob’s Daughter RB Said

Bob Harrod and his three daughters had an argument over finances the Sunday before he vanished.

His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them." (Ref OC Register Article)
​

February 7, 2010 – What Police Said

The day before he disappeared, his daughters - Paula Borcher, Roberta Brady and Julie Michaels - came to his home in Placentia, Calif. The four argued about money, police say. (Ref LA Times Article)
​

August 11, 2010 – What Bob’s Daughter RB Said

We did NOT argue about money and we did not discuss money. [snipped]

After that, we sat around making small talk and happy talk [snipped] (Ref RB’s post on another forum)
​

http://articles.ocregister.com/2009-10-08/cities/24655660_1_corinne-loomis-evidence-water-balloon/2

http://poststar.com/lifestyles/article_f7099e98-12d4-11df-ad7f-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[Angelo]

July 27, 2009 – What Bob’s Grandson AH Said

Andrew continued and said that there had been fighting in the family recently and Robert was very frustrated over the situation. (Ref Missing Persons Report)
​

August 11, 2009 – What Bob’s Daughter PB Said

There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms. (Ref PB’s post on another forum)
​

October 8, 2009 – What Bob’s Daughter RB Said

Bob Harrod and his three daughters had an argument over finances the Sunday before he vanished.

His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them." (Ref OC Register Article)
​

February 7, 2010 – What Police Said

The day before he disappeared, his daughters - Paula Borcher, Roberta Brady and Julie Michaels - came to his home in Placentia, Calif. The four argued about money, police say. (Ref LA Times Article)
​

August 11, 2010 – What Bob’s Daughter RB Said

We did NOT argue about money and we did not discuss money. [snipped]

After that, we sat around making small talk and happy talk [snipped] (Ref RB’s post on another forum)
​

http://articles.ocregister.com/2009-10-08/cities/24655660_1_corinne-loomis-evidence-water-balloon/2

http://poststar.com/lifestyles/article_f7099e98-12d4-11df-ad7f-001cc4c002e0.html

I wonder if grandson, AH, was ever questioned by PPD. Hopefully he was. Did he expand upon his statement about fighting in the family and Mr. Harrod's frustration with the situation?

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them." (Ref OC Register Article)

Just imagine being on either side of this argument. Common sense alone points to it as being a very 'heated' exchange!

 

[Cubby]

I wonder if grandson, AH, was ever questioned by PPD. Hopefully he was. Did he expand upon his statement about fighting in the family and Mr. Harrod's frustration with the situation?

I've always wondered what kind of information grandson AH may have regarding Bobs disappearance and the family argument(s). I hope he chooses to share all he knows with LE. I couldn't imagine him choosing to protect his parents (and possibly aunts) over his wife and children- should he have information he has not yet shared.

jmo