CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #8

[zwiebel]

I think LE found enough evidence to assure themselves Bryce was in the car when it went over the slope from the signs of blood, something being removed from his bag and indications of a tool being used to break out of the car. As well as scent dogs following his trail as he walked away towards/around the lake.

An interesting story here, as far as Bryce and his crash are concerned. These two guys drove over a 500ft drop in their vehicle and were uninjured enough to climb back out - plus, they were picked up by a passing motorist at around 4am in the morning. I would have given zero odds for anyone ever picking up two dishevelled-looking men in Angeles National Forest, in the dark, early hours of the morning. Truly surprising.

http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime...tumbles-500-feet-off-san-gabriel-canyon-road/

 

[Quester]

Bits and pieces from timeline, BBM:

F 8/30/13 btw 4:20 & 5:15am Castaic Lake SUV CRASHED: The crash had to happen between 4:20 a.m. and 5:15 a.m. when law enforcement arrived for a training exercise, KL said. It had gone down a 15-foot ravine nose first and landed on the passenger side. BL (or someone) used an emergency tool to break the back window. Or, back window shattered as a result of the crash.
KL: Airbag/s did not deploy.
DRZ: Keys were in the SUV/ignition. http://hometownstation.com/santa-cl...eputies-continue-search-missing-oc-teen-37622
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #3
Photos: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #3

- - - - DRZ: One strange thing that was observed was that in the tire marks, there were mounds of dirt behind point of travel as to indicate acceleration NOT braking. Now, again, this could be a last minute effort to "save" the vehicle from going over OR one to dump it. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1

- - - - DRZ: … we know he was in the car at one point, guessing that he was at time of crash. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1

- - - - DRZ: The seatbelts were not cut in the vehicle. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1

- - - - DRZ: It is still not known conclusively if the emergency tool was used to break the rear window or if it was broken in the crash. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1

- - - - DRZ: re: blood, where? how much? - I don't know where but it was very little. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1


F 8/30/13 5:30am Castaic Lake CHP officers located BL's overturned SUV on a paved access road that led to the Castaic Lake Main Boat ramp, at the bottom of a 15-foot ravine, on its side, with its rear window smashed. Although valuables were left in SUV – laptop, cell phone and wallet with everything in it including credit cards and ID – a duffle bag is found at the rear of the SUV and zipped open, prompting investigators to suspect he took something from it. Blood found. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #3


- - - - A search dog later tracked BL's scent from the crashed SUV to the lake shore. Dogs also tracked BL's scent from lake shore toward boat ramp area and crossing the dam and stopping, insinuating backtracking across the dam. LE later shared info with parents of dogs tracking BL heading out of the recreation area. LE believed BL left the area.

- - - - DRZ: The first set of dogs findings were RULED OUT BY LE as they followed human scent. Second dogs (bloodhounds) were brought in with Bryce's shoes/socks that were properly collected by GF as instructed by LE. That is the path they feel is accurate. I do not , however, know why it took them a week to bring in the second dogs ???? Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #6

- - - - DRZ: 1st search was [SAR dog; human scent], second search was with [bloodhound; 1 person's scent],
Team Amber brought a [cadaver dog]. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #6
sarx: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #6

 

[Voice4theSilent]

How accurate are dogs after a week? Have there been cases in which it was discovered later that the dogs just completely blew it? I would like to know how much weight to put on the dogs that tracked Bryce's scent a week after he supposedly left the area.

 

[Quester]

How accurate are dogs after a week? Have there been cases in which it was discovered later that the dogs just completely blew it? I would like to know how much weight to put on the dogs that tracked Bryce's scent a week after he supposedly left the area.

According to Sarx, Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR:

10-10-2013, 01:59 PM
sarx
Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

I'm going to post what I tend to say often in these cases where dogs were used but the person was not found....

Dogs are just a tool, and the only time we can truly be sure that any of them were in fact on the right trail is when they lead us to something of significance, like the person, a trail of clothing, items left behind, etc.

In the event that that doesn't happen, then we must, or I should say, should, only take that information as one possibility, not as absolute fact, as there is no way to prove or verify that they were in fact correct.

If you know me on here, you know that I am a huge believer in dogs in SAR work, I also am not going to put full stock in any one resource unless they find me the person I've been looking for. Make sense?

I say this because I am seeing a lot of focus being put on one team's trail being discounted and another team's being latched onto, for really no better reason than that the one makes more sense to people (lost person behavior does NOT always make sense). Since we really know so little about what transpired I caution against focusing too much on any one thing.

MOO, carry on.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #6
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* * *

10-12-2013, 10:45 AM
sarx
Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR

Doggie info:
HRD/Cadaver Dogs can be effective from shortly after death to years, decades and centuries later, DEPENDING on training.

Trailing Dogs (these use a scent article) can be effective from minutes to DAYS later, I am still waiting to see a confirmed case of months later. Weather, HEAT, humidity or lack there of, wind all affect scent greatly (as in it eats it up). Those were major factors in this case and many others. (100 degree temps and low humidity are the enemy of scent so to speak). The reality is, the only people I have seen who say they can run a 3 month to year old trail are those who are benefiting from it either financially or for fame. Both of which I feel is not good for the families of these loved ones who the are missing so very much.

The other type of "trailing" dog is the police k9 bloodhound/tracker/trailer. I put these in a separate category because they are generally trained for "hot" trails, as they are used to most often find the bad guy. They are being brought out more and more on MP cases and the issue here is an awful lot of them have not trained on aged trails (24 hrs plus) but many don't seem to think there is a difference and that's an issue, because scent changes, moves, and does all kinds of things as the hours and days go by.

Area search dogs are looking for any human in a given area. They only work well if the areas is free of all other people, otherwise they'll be finding every hiker, biker, and cop along the way.

The part below is Complete speculation
It seems like it would have been hard for them to bring an area dog in given all the LE and public in the area. I have to wonder if they brought trailing dogs in and scented off of something in the car (like the seat), which is done often. Complete speculation on my part.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 August 2013 - #6
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[Voice4theSilent]

Thank you, Quester! Based off of that information, I personally am not going to put too much stock in the information we have received about the dogs following Bryce's scent from the scene a week after the crash.

 

[Quester]

:bump: and BBM:

Items that might have been left behind, and sadly, him. In areas like that, it is so tough to thoroughly search. Only the area right around the vehicle was really searched in a grid pattern.
Trying to get up the numbers, but basically if you do the math, looking at even a one mile radius and then convert that to how many square feet you are looking at needing to search, the number becomes much more real and HUGE. Will see if I can find those numbers (or you can google it).

 

[cluciano63]

JMO, but I really cannot imagine Bryce, an only child (?) close to his parents, would willingly stay away during the holidays due to embarrassment. He already missed Thanksgiving. That would be a huge flag for me that he is not hiding out for any reason. He is either ill or deceased, IMO, and should be considered critical missing. But also, more intense searching needs to be done back near the scene.

JMO

 

[ktgirl]

JMO, but I really cannot imagine Bryce, an only child (?) close to his parents, would willingly stay away during the holidays due to embarrassment. He already missed Thanksgiving. That would be a huge flag for me that he is not hiding out for any reason. He is either ill or deceased, IMO, and should be considered critical missing. But also, more intense searching needs to be done back near the scene.

JMO

Agree 100%, especially that more intense searching needs to be done near the scene of where the car turned over.

 

[gitana1]

JMO, but I really cannot imagine Bryce, an only child (?) close to his parents, would willingly stay away during the holidays due to embarrassment. He already missed Thanksgiving. That would be a huge flag for me that he is not hiding out for any reason. He is either ill or deceased, IMO, and should be considered critical missing. But also, more intense searching needs to be done back near the scene.

JMO

I agree 100%.

His poor family and girlfriend. This has got to be a living hell.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

JMO, but I really cannot imagine Bryce, an only child (?) close to his parents, would willingly stay away during the holidays due to embarrassment. He already missed Thanksgiving. That would be a huge flag for me that he is not hiding out for any reason. He is either ill or deceased, IMO, and should be considered critical missing. But also, more intense searching needs to be done back near the scene.

JMO

I agree. The more time that passes without a resolution, especially now that the holiday season is upon us, the more I tend to agree that he is either deceased or is ill somewhere. Heartbreaking for his family and loved ones, indeed.

I think from the point that LE found Bryce's car they thought, as so many of us did, that he would turn up within hours. Then as time passed, we began to think that he would turn up within days, a week maybe, two weeks at most....now here we are. Unfortunately, because LE had no reason to believe Bryce was injured, I believe the investigation and search may have been completed with the effort of a department that believed Bryce was no longer in the area voluntarily and not under any duress. I don't know if the outcome would have been any different had they known then what we know now but because of this, I really, really, really would love to see the area searched in more detail and possibly in the area traveling east, away from the 5 freeway, especially if much of the search efforts were based off of the scent the dogs tracked.

I know this has been mentioned so many times on this thread but I had to mention it again.....I would love it if the family could get Texas Equusearch involved to help in the search for Bryce.

Just my :twocents:

 

[RDW]

I walked down LHR from the antenna site to get a feel for the terrain. It is hard to tell from pics but there are some very steep areas with deep erossion channels. These are almost invisble until you are right over them. I have attached a pic of one right down the road.

Question for SARX:

In this photo, I am standing on LHR looking down. It is very steep with a very deep winding erosion channel. IMO, this would be considered impassable terrain due to steepness, overgrowth of vegitaion and fragile nature of these channels (cave-in). How is an area like this handled from a SAR perspective?

I was thinking the only way to do a comprehensive search of this particular spot would be with a boom lift or crane with basket.

 

[SmartSassyBBW]

Your picture isn't opening on my phone.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Picture isn't opening on my IPad

 

[Whiteorchids]

Picture isn't opening on my IPad

I can see it now by going to web view. Thank you so much for your post. I really hope this can be searched.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Niner]

I walked down LHR from the antenna site to get a feel for the terrain. It is hard to tell from pics but there are some very steep areas with deep erossion channels. These are almost invisble until you are right over them. I have attached a pic of one right down the road.

Question for SARX:

In this photo, I am standing on LHR looking down. It is very steep with a very deep winding erosion channel. IMO, this would be considered impassable terrain due to steepness, overgrowth of vegitaion and fragile nature of these channels (cave-in). How is an area like this handled from a SAR perspective?

I was thinking the only way to do a comprehensive search of this particular spot would be with a boom lift or crane with basket.

Wow RDW - those erosion holes - what if one of them was a little bit bigger and with Bryce walking at night, he wouldn't see them, fall into one and injure himself! You're right - this place needs to searched again!

 

[zwiebel]

Weirdest thing because I can never see anything on my ipad, but I can see that pic with no problem.

I have no SAR knowledge and have never seen the area, but it doesn't look too bad for search dogs and teams to have checked that area thoroughly, to me. I've seen examples of SAR teams going into much, much worse areas than that - especially if they've located someone alive.

 

[zwiebel]

Organizing repeated, extensive private SAR searches in natural terrain for a long-term missing person isn't just a matter of resources, in my opinion. It is also a state of mind - it requires some degree of acceptance that the missing person may be laying deceased somewhere. Unless LE are handling it, it can be almost impossible to organize unless family are leading the way and agitating for it.

For whatever reason, I don't think Bryce's loved ones want to travel that road yet. I don't think it will happen until they are. I think they are hoping Bryce is alive and hiding out, and maybe he is.

If he is deceased, the passing of time will make it harder to locate him - but I really don't think it's possible to hurry things along here. I would like to know why LE appears to have stepped back so much - because they think Bryce is hiding out? Or because they think he's deceased, there is no foul play, family aren't agitating for further SAR searches and they need to devote their resources elsewhere?

 

[Quester]

My number one question I would love answered is this, "What exactly was captured on video (just a license plate? A license plate and an image of someone driving? A clear shot of only Bryce in the car?) and where is that camera located? We have speculated but I don't recall getting a definitive answer.

RSBM for focus

Not definitive but from the timeline:

F 8/30/13 4:20am Castaic BL's SUV is captured on video surveillance heading toward Castaic Lake; driver not ID'd; no passengers visible. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1

- - - - DRZ: I don't know if they assumed that because it was a gold SUV or if they were able to get the plate. I am certain there was only 1 person observed in the vehicle because there should have only been 1 person in the car and if they saw more than 1, that would have thrown up a red flag. I do not know if they could make out that the driver was Bryce. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1
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[kimi_SFC]

I walked down LHR from the antenna site to get a feel for the terrain. It is hard to tell from pics but there are some very steep areas with deep erossion channels. These are almost invisble until you are right over them. I have attached a pic of one right down the road.

Question for SARX:

In this photo, I am standing on LHR looking down. It is very steep with a very deep winding erosion channel. IMO, this would be considered impassable terrain due to steepness, overgrowth of vegitaion and fragile nature of these channels (cave-in). How is an area like this handled from a SAR perspective?

I was thinking the only way to do a comprehensive search of this particular spot would be with a boom lift or crane with basket.

Here is a photobucket screenshot of the PDF file image. It will be viewable from iPhone and iPad... Hope this helps!

[URL=http://s1220.photobucket.com/user/kimi_SFC/media/a7bce816-673f-4e75-ae8a-d8c3f39093d1.png.html][/URL]

 

[Voice4theSilent]

RSBM for focus

Not definitive but from the timeline:

F 8/30/13 4:20am Castaic BL's SUV is captured on video surveillance heading toward Castaic Lake; driver not ID'd; no passengers visible. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1

- - - - DRZ: I don't know if they assumed that because it was a gold SUV or if they were able to get the plate. I am certain there was only 1 person observed in the vehicle because there should have only been 1 person in the car and if they saw more than 1, that would have thrown up a red flag. I do not know if they could make out that the driver was Bryce. Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #1​

Thank you. I re-read Dragracerz posts and (I may be splitting hairs here) I don't think the timeline should include that only a driver could be seen on video and/or couldn't be identified because Dragracerz was guessing. He didn't state that the video even had the capability of recording or capturing who was in the car. All we know for sure is that his car and or license plate was captured on video, not who was in the car, who was driving and if there possibly was anyone in the car with him. We have never received confirmation as to where the camera was located and what exactly it recorded (that I know of?)