CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #8

[lillygator]

If a person did check themselves in somewhere...would that facility be allowed to tell anyone?

 

[CatFancier]

If a person did check themselves in somewhere...would that facility be allowed to tell anyone?

Due to HIPAA, probably none. Although they may tell LE, they are prohibited from telling anyone else.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, I've been told that information cannot be released, even to family members. I don't quite understand what happens when there is something like a bad vehicle accident, where the hospital needs to inform relatives their loved one's injured. Do the hospital authorities contact LE, and leave it to LE to inform the family?

 

[Sopranofan]

OK based on what Kim said I've thought of some things.

Psychiatric facilities should also be checked for John Doe's. Whether it was a psychotic break or simply he was not acting like himself, this is one avenue I haven't seen mentioned.

For those unfamiliar with psychiatric facilities and how involuntary admissions work (I worked in Henry Mayo's behavioral unit):

Police have the ability to so something called a 5150. Its a fancy code for involuntary psych holds. When someone is at risk for harming themselves or someone else police have the right to send them for a 72 hour observation period in which they cannot be discharged unless the doctor has found it unfounded or unnecessary. At the end of the hold the doctor either releases them, they encourage voluntary admissoon, or they seek a 30 day hold which depending on the original reason for the hold may require a court order. In some circumstances they do not need a court order, it all depends on how critical the person is and how dangerous they are deemed to be (again whether or not its too themselves or others).

I know many of you are familiar with this likely but just in case those of you who don't know I figured I'd share.

The only reason I really wonder about this is the fact he was acting bizarrely. If he was stumbling around and someone called the cops after the accident I could definitely see them putting him on a psych hold without realizing who he was. At that point he wouldn't have even been missing yet. If a random guy is stumbling around acting strange and has blood on them, I think a hold would be done.

Also, if he was disoriented and doesn't know who he is, he may not be able to alert them and he could be safe and sound and we wouldn't even know it.

Another thing is: cab companies still never returned my call about whether or not he was given a ride out of castaic. I just want to remind the family or Kim if they're reading this to make sure the 2 SCV cab companies that service Castaic are checked into again.

Hopefully one of these 2 things might bring us a lead!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Great info! Isn't the person first taken to a hospital for observation then, if necessary, transferred to a psych ward? I know Henry Mayo has flyers posted, but in the beginning wouldn't he have been admitted and transferred as a John Doe? Also, without a name, proof of insurance, or means of paying, I can only think of the facility in Norwalk or maybe Olive View. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Sopranofan]

Guess I posted to quickly, as I see now that most of what I just said was already started. Sorry

 

[rachaellouise]

From the sound of what Kim has told us, I'm now very much leaning towards him being seriously hurt in the car accident and then succumbing to his injuries, I'm very sad to say. The vyanese would have gotten out of his system after a few days, and I'd assume if he wanted more he would have gotten in contact with whomever supplied him with the pills. JMO though and I could be so wrong!

 

[AmandaFast]

Great info! Isn't the person first taken to a hospital for observation then, if necessary, transferred to a psych ward? I know Henry Mayo has flyers posted, but in the beginning wouldn't he have been admitted and transferred as a John Doe? Also, without a name, proof of insurance, or means of paying, I can only think of the facility in Norwalk or maybe Olive View. Any thoughts on this?

I guess this depends on the hospital but no observation here. Without a 5150 you are first checked out in the ER and then admitted under psych service. With the 5150 you are taken to the ER just to wait placement. You don't need to go through the same process because its a mandatory hold. In either case actually the person would only be in the ER for a few hours at most and once taken to the psych ward the patient would not be accessible from anywhere else in the hospital. So a John Doe could easily be missed if not speaking with someone who has clearance to see the patient listings in the ward.

As far as payment goes. Many hospitals including Henry Mayo have there own psych units which do not require means of payment for service. Every hospital must admit a patient regardless of there willingness or ability to pay. So that would only apply to a private institution. Henry Mayo's behavioral health center is still part of the campus although it has a separate patient tracking system and is in a separate building off to the side which is why I'm concerned that avenue wasn't checked enough.

I guess the admission procedures could definitely be different but since my biggest concern for Bryce is HMNMH I'm stating the procedures from when I worked there.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[zwiebel]

This deals with a patient who dies in a hospital, and the obligations of the hospital, but it doesn't say if the same applies to a patient who does not die.

http://www.nursinglaw.com/johndoe.htm

Interestingly, there is a case here on WS but I cannot recollect the name of the lady concerned. Anyway, she just inexplicably vanished from her home in the US one day. Years later, a care facility in Canada released a photo of an unidentified blonde lady in its care, who had been there a long time. One of our WSers, and another member of the public, googled missing blonde lady ( or something very similar) and a photo of an identical long-term missing person came up.

It was the same lady. I think she had given a totally different location from the one she had really come from. Wish I could recall it, because it does show that people who seem very ill-prepared, can suddenly travel a long way from their homes, seemingly for no real reason.

ETA, sorry, here it is. She was missing months, not years. Found in Toronto, police thought she was from Halifax, actually from Newark, Del. She was very happy to find her family again.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mystery-woman-linda-identified-by-toronto-police-1.1234835

 

[la2cabo]

Hi Kim:

I would also like to thank you for your posts and clearing up some things. I must admit that in the beginning I thought you were in denial regarding the break up, however, after reading your posts it is very evident how much you love Bryce and are committed to him. Your strength and commitment is both admirable and inspiring. I sincerely apologize for having doubted you :blushing:

I have a few questions, if you don't mind. This is a stretch, but have the parents checked with Bryce's medical/health insurance provider (assuming he is covered) to see if there has been any activity since he went missing? I know when I was hospitalized a year ago it took over 3 months before I started receiving any bills from the hospital or doctors.

Have you personally had the opportunity to review the results of the phone and laptop forensics? I ask this because what may seem "normal" to us old fogey parents might jump out at you, as his girlfriend and young person, as being completely out of the norm.

Do you know if anybody (family, law enforcement, etc.) has been able to determine for sure if Bryce was seen in Buttonwillow 2 days after Christian initially saw him?

Do you know if Bryce's parents have checked and double checked to make sure Bryce is listed in ALL pertinent data bases? I know the police get busy and overwhelmed and things can fall through the cracks. It would be a terrible shame to find out 2 months later that Bryce has been safe all this time. I so hope this is the case!

Lastly, is there ANYTHING that you or the family needs from us here on WS in order to help you get through this terrible ordeal? Other than keeping our eyes open and looking for Bryce is there anything else you want the public to know or do?

I'm sorry for the many questions. As I'm typing I keep having more thoughts and questions pop in to my head. I want to thank you for taking the time to answer whatever you feel comfortable with. I feel like I'm interrogating you but please know that is not my intent. I truly want to help find Bryce and bring some closure and peace to both you and his family. :tyou:

I hope that my posts were helpful. I have to go to sleep and I have school and work tomorrow so I will log on again sometime soon when I have time. I appreciate all of your help to try and find Bryce. :tyou: I hope we find him soon because I really miss him.

 

[gitana1]

So Bryce was planning on using the 2 year degree to transfer to a 4 year school?

now I really getting baffled. Maybe he was under incredible amounts of stress.

Most people go to community college to get transfer units so they can reduce the cost of a BA by taking half the required classes at a JC, not to get a 2 year degree which is typically not helpful in obtaining a job. Also, if they get good grades at the community college, they may qualify for scholarships at the 4 year.

If a person did check themselves in somewhere...would that facility be allowed to tell anyone?

Yes. They can and do notify LE when there is a missing person's report.

Yes, I've been told that information cannot be released, even to family members. I don't quite understand what happens when there is something like a bad vehicle accident, where the hospital needs to inform relatives their loved one's injured. Do the hospital authorities contact LE, and leave it to LE to inform the family?

Yes. LE would be contacted and would track down next of kin.

 

[gitana1]

From the sound of what Kim has told us, I'm now very much leaning towards him being seriously hurt in the car accident and then succumbing to his injuries, I'm very sad to say. The vyanese would have gotten out of his system after a few days, and I'd assume if he wanted more he would have gotten in contact with whomever supplied him with the pills. JMO though and I could be so wrong!

That surprises me. There was very little blood and the vehicle did not go down a huge embankment. It also didn't sustain much damage. Further, the dogs tracked him for a long distance, on foot. I would think if he was seriously injured, he would not have made it that far.

 

[McSpy]

He went to Mexico on a trip with his family a few years ago. He hasn't talked to me about going back there. I believe that since the police put him out there as missing the border patrol should have that information in their database but I'm not sure. He doesn't have his passport so that would make it difficult for him to cross the border. Yes I have personally talked with some of his friends and family in Naperville and they are all on the lookout for him and told me that they would let us know if they see him. They also had the Candlelight Vigil in Naperville to spread awareness about his disappearance.

Did Bryce ever complain about having a hard time falling asleep? Did he have insomnia?

 

[tamrabbit]

I hope that my posts were helpful. I have to go to sleep and I have school and work tomorrow so I will log on again sometime soon when I have time. I appreciate all of your help to try and find Bryce. :tyou: I hope we find him soon because I really miss him.

Your posts were so helpful. I just want you to know how much my thoughts are with you. My husband committed suicide 2 years ago. I am so very hopeful that your story ends differently, but I can so relate to what you are going through right now even though it is different. How this person who you thought you would be together with forever and have a family with is just suddenly gone and you don't understand what was going through his head and why. My heart breaks for you. I go and hike by Castaic every week looking for him or some kind of clue. I just want him home for his loved ones. So much love and support to you. Please take care of yourself. <3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Whiteorchids]

OK based on what Kim said I've thought of some things.

Psychiatric facilities should also be checked for John Doe's. Whether it was a psychotic break or simply he was not acting like himself, this is one avenue I haven't seen mentioned.

For those unfamiliar with psychiatric facilities and how involuntary admissions work (I worked in Henry Mayo's behavioral unit):

Police have the ability to so something called a 5150. Its a fancy code for involuntary psych holds. When someone is at risk for harming themselves or someone else police have the right to send them for a 72 hour observation period in which they cannot be discharged unless the doctor has found it unfounded or unnecessary. At the end of the hold the doctor either releases them, they encourage voluntary admissoon, or they seek a 30 day hold which depending on the original reason for the hold may require a court order. In some circumstances they do not need a court order, it all depends on how critical the person is and how dangerous they are deemed to be (again whether or not its too themselves or others).

I know many of you are familiar with this likely but just in case those of you who don't know I figured I'd share.

The only reason I really wonder about this is the fact he was acting bizarrely. If he was stumbling around and someone called the cops after the accident I could definitely see them putting him on a psych hold without realizing who he was. At that point he wouldn't have even been missing yet. If a random guy is stumbling around acting strange and has blood on them, I think a hold would be done.

Also, if he was disoriented and doesn't know who he is, he may not be able to alert them and he could be safe and sound and we wouldn't even know it.

Another thing is: cab companies still never returned my call about whether or not he was given a ride out of castaic. I just want to remind the family or Kim if they're reading this to make sure the 2 SCV cab companies that service Castaic are checked into again.

Hopefully one of these 2 things might bring us a lead!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I mentioned this being done way back when and most of all of you said they would have been notified by PD he was missing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Mazer]

I hope that my posts were helpful. I have to go to sleep and I have school and work tomorrow so I will log on again sometime soon when I have time. I appreciate all of your help to try and find Bryce. :tyou: I hope we find him soon because I really miss him.

Hi

Just a question.

How much validity do you assign to the reported sightings in Oregon?

 

[Whiteorchids]

So Bryce was planning on using the 2 year degree to transfer to a 4 year school?

now I really getting baffled. Maybe he was under incredible amounts of stress.

A lot of students are doing this now including my youngest son for one thing it saves the parents LOTS of money and the student still gets their degree from the 4 year University or State college they transfer to. For instance my younger son transferred from Fullerton college to UC Irvine and his degree will be from UC Irvine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[la2cabo]

Your posts were so helpful. I just want you to know how much my thoughts are with you. My husband committed suicide 2 years ago. I am so very hopeful that your story ends differently, but I can so relate to what you are going through right now even though it is different. How this person who you thought you would be together with forever and have a family with is just suddenly gone and you don't understand what was going through his head and why. My heart breaks for you. I go and hike by Castaic every week looking for him or some kind of clue. I just want him home for his loved ones. So much love and support to you. Please take care of yourself. <3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Tam ~ I am so very sorry for your loss. That must have been so devastating for you. I can't even imagine. Thank you for sharing with us.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I guess this depends on the hospital but no observation here. Without a 5150 you are first checked out in the ER and then admitted under psych service. With the 5150 you are taken to the ER just to wait placement. You don't need to go through the same process because its a mandatory hold. In either case actually the person would only be in the ER for a few hours at most and once taken to the psych ward the patient would not be accessible from anywhere else in the hospital. So a John Doe could easily be missed if not speaking with someone who has clearance to see the patient listings in the ward.

As far as payment goes. Many hospitals including Henry Mayo have there own psych units which do not require means of payment for service. Every hospital must admit a patient regardless of there willingness or ability to pay. So that would only apply to a private institution. Henry Mayo's behavioral health center is still part of the campus although it has a separate patient tracking system and is in a separate building off to the side which is why I'm concerned that avenue wasn't checked enough.

I guess the admission procedures could definitely be different but since my biggest concern for Bryce is HMNMH I'm stating the procedures from when I worked there.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

After the 5150 if the psychiatrists feels you need to stay longer it goes into a 5250 non voluntary hold which is a two week extended hold and goes on from there and can lead into long term care and possible filing for a conservatorship/ legal guardian.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[zwiebel]

Did Bryce ever complain about having a hard time falling asleep? Did he have insomnia?

I believe he did, but only immediately before he went missing.

 

[Quester]

@ kslyfoxy - Thank you!

I rarely try to speak generally for WSers but I’m confident in stating that all of us WSers want/hope to see Bryce coming home safe and sound to you, his parents and his family.

Stay strong. If you need, hope you’re able to talk to someone regularly, perhaps an on-campus counselor in the health department. I'm sure I can also state that we all are concerned about you and what you are going through with Bryce missing.

:grouphug:

We also haven't heard much lately from Bryce's uncle, Dragracerz. Hope he's doing OK despite all that's going on and all that he has taken on with regard to finding Bryce. It must be very challenging to orchestrate what he has while across the country from ground zero. Hugs to you, Dragracerz!