CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[anansie]

I still think (it is possible that) the trip to the hotel was pre-planned. I think she had a reason to go there. The more I watch the video the more it looks staged. I think there is no sign of trauma on the body that would indicate foul-play (hence the continued autopsy etc). The Police clearly think suicide is a possibility.- but, who knows? I don't.

Hi Dr. Hua Sheng, <modsnip>I thought I'd just like to say on here that I'm glad my last post didn't offend you. I wasn't too upset but because I've had past experience of having negative comments directed at me from other Chinese people because I wasn't from a country Chinese enough for them, what you said brought up memories of it. I'm glad you did not mean it that way. I was also trying to not offend you in my last post and at the same time make my point. I'm glad it seems you are okay with it.

And you are right, suicide is a complicated matter. I did some quick research online about suicidology and it appears the majority of suicide attempts do not come with suicide notes, so my initial thought that there might be a suicide note if it was a suicide might be wrong on this one. But still I guess, its (just) my personal opinion that it was not a suicide. But I agree this is such an odd case... it could be suicide or murder or an accident. We'll just have to wait for the official reports and any further information released by the LAPD to be a bit more certain how she died.

It is a sad case regardless, and I feel her family's sorrow as well as the sad loss of what appears to be a really likeable girl. May she rest in peace now.

 

[summer_breeze]

I'll tell everyone one more time politely:

Everyone's opinion is welcome. Not everyone will agree with you, and you must agree to disagree if necessary. Like civilized individuals!

I BELIEVE most of our members are having a decent, honest discussion of what is known. And you are to be commended for this!

If you attack another member, your posting privileges will be reviewed and possibly suspended.

 

[x_files]

my guess was the perp used one of the 3 fire escapes...someone would carry a duffle of her body and carry it up the roof up the ladder, then carry the body up the roof of the maintenance building next to the water tower, thats why they chose that water tower...closest to the roof, just drop down. that would be my take on how the body was moved there.

don't know if they are locked, but fire escapes under law should not be obstructed.

my thinking is it is probable the youtube video on the roof got there by that method as well. it also would show the lack of security if they were able to enter the hotel and roof to make a video. i wish the person making the video would shed some light on how he gained access.

Young, healthy fit college aged-teens/young adults would easily use a fire escape w/o a second thought.
I did the same in NY to see the sunset with buddies.

 

[Robert White]

Young, healthy fit college aged-teens/young adults would easily use a fire escape w/o a second thought.
I did the same in NY to see the sunset with buddies.

Good point by the person you quoted x_files. Previously I had discussed dead weight/dynamics, however a suitcase/large bag would negate that so long as you were strong and fit enough. Also no one would second guess large bags in a hotel. Interesting, hadn't thought of that. Unfortunately, any fibers from that bag (were it to be used), probably were flushed by the cistern.

 

[SCHMAE]

Again I find it near impossible that someone would have managed to bring the body up there on their own. It would seem more likely that she went there herself, and if she didn't go in the tank herself, someone killed her on top of there and put her inside.

Now, a seemingly stupid theory, but what if.....

Elisa didn't want to take a shower in the communal ones, out of fear, so she ended up thinking should wash herself in there?

I know that sounds like an incredibly dumb idea, doubt anyone would think of that or do it, but I don't know. Just trying to figure out how she may have gotten there.

Did the police ever reveal if her clothes were found on the roof?

I've wondered where her clothes were found... on the rooftop, in her room, nowhere? The answer seems important.

 

[SCHMAE]

Hi Dr. Hua Sheng, <modsnip>I thought I'd just like to say on here that I'm glad my last post didn't offend you. I wasn't too upset but because I've had past experience of having negative comments directed at me from other Chinese people because I wasn't from a country Chinese enough for them, what you said brought up memories of it. I'm glad you did not mean it that way. I was also trying to not offend you in my last post and at the same time make my point. I'm glad it seems you are okay with it.

And you are right, suicide is a complicated matter. I did some quick research online about suicidology and it appears the majority of suicide attempts do not come with suicide notes, so my initial thought that there might be a suicide note if it was a suicide might be wrong on this one. But still I guess, its (just) my personal opinion that it was not a suicide. But I agree this is such an odd case... it could be suicide or murder or an accident. We'll just have to wait for the official reports and any further information released by the LAPD to be a bit more certain how she died.

It is a sad case regardless, and I feel her family's sorrow as well as the sad loss of what appears to be a really likeable girl. May she rest in peace now.

Very respectfully, I would just say that suicide is at the very very bottom of the list in my mind. She seemed happy and lively and excited about her future from everything she has written. Was she struggling? Yes it seems so but she was determined to hold her head up and plod on along and it seems she was doing just that. I won't say it didn't happen but it seems the VERY least likely in my opinion.

 

[anansie]

Young, healthy fit college aged-teens/young adults would easily use a fire escape w/o a second thought.
I did the same in NY to see the sunset with buddies.

Actually me and my husband both agree it is very possible the whole alarm system thing was either not working or the staff ignore it, and that people staying there probably went up to the rooftop a lot (maybe not everybody, but those who were inclined)... So yes I think its not far fetched to think Elisa may have gone up there at least once to explore, hang out, etc. She may have even, along with the others who go up there, have tried going round the water tanks and the utility room just to have a look, etc. At her age, people do try or do these things. I know me and my husband have done... not sure if it's because of a mix of boredom and curiosity LOL but I do remember feeling very carefree at that age and not very worried about death or planning for the future, and therefore just wanting to try as many different experiences as I could, within reason.
Of course my mindset is quite different now as a mother.

And I still think Elisa might have met with some unsavoury characters who contributed to her early demise in some way. Just because of how she is and the kind of area that hotel was in. Well, just my opinion anyway.

 

[silsby]

I would love to know more about that tank lid. I think it's a valuable piece of evidence. If it was on when the body was discovered, potential prints on the "inside" of it could show signs of a struggle. In addition, if it was on, I too find it to be nearly impossible that Elisa could have put it on while being in the tank.

If it was off the whole time, well, that could point to an accidental fall into it (no glasses, can't see where she's going)...farfetched, but one of the only "accident" scenarios I can come up with. The other being she went for a swim and drown or succumbed to hypothermia.

I just cannot make anything out of the elevator video. Every time I watch it, I see it from a different perspective. It could really be of no consequence. Then again, why was it released by LE?! What could be their rationale? I think that's a very important question. It's not for the public to decide whether or not she's had a mental break...they have behavior analysts/experts for that. Are they looking for people who witnessed her behavior/heard her to step forward? Are they wondering if she was actually speaking out loud and wondering if anyone heard anything, because they can't tell? It's so puzzling.

 

[mollymae]

Hey everyone. I was away for less than 24 hours and I have over 10 pages of posts to catch up on! Whew! Great to see so many people interested in uncovering what happened to Elisa. I really think that with all our minds working together, we've likely already come up with the scenario, or at least one very close to, what actually happened to EL. I'm so anticipating those toxicology reports...

I mentioned it much earlier in the first thread, but I'm going to bring it up again because it keeps nagging at me for some reason; if Elisa did indeed take medications for whatever reason (which according to what is said to be her tumblr, she did) it's quite possible she was slipped the date rape drug, which had an adverse reaction when combined with her other prescription meds. Perhaps even the perp didn't anticipate this reaction and needed to find a way to "deal" with her erratic behaviour? It's very difficult to predict how prescrption meds will react when mixed with recreational drugs...

 

[Robert White]

I just cannot make anything out of the elevator video. Every time I watch it, I see it from a different perspective. It could really be of no consequence. Then again, why was it released by LE?! What could be their rationale? I think that's a very important question. It's not for the public to decide whether or not she's had a mental break...they have behavior analysts/experts for that. Are they looking for people who witnessed her behavior/heard her to step forward? Are they wondering if she was actually speaking out loud and wondering if anyone heard anything, because they can't tell? It's so puzzling.

Snipped for context, thank you.

Likely released by LE for regional public who would have been privy to her actions in the days prior to her death. So far it seems that all hotel and shop staff who encountered her say that she did not act the way she did in the elevator.

 

[silsby]

Snipped for context, thank you.

Likely released by LE for regional public who would have been privy to her actions in the days prior to her death. So far it seems that all hotel and shop staff who encountered her say that she did not act the way she did in the elevator.

Oh, good point.

I appreciate all the valuable input.

 

[Marlon]

Found this on the web in some forum where they discuss the case comcerning the grafitti on the earlier pic ,....

""Fecto cunnus eam suma" would be a very sloppy and very profane expression in Latin-mine is very rusty, but it sounds like something some 1st century Roman would write on the wall of a brothel. Google translate it. Something like "it's the best p <modsnip>."

Maybe not related but
Wiicked

 

[DrSlooth]

Please refer to my earlier post in this thread in which I give point-by-point evidence that the Tumblr belongs to Elisa.

I also have quite a bit of evidence showing the tumblr belongs to Elisa that was used by mods to help verify the account. I haven't posted what I sent to the mods because it seems moot at this point but I suppose I could if questions still linger.

 

[x_files]

May this was posted already?

"Cecil Hotel closed on Saturday for repairing of water pipes and will reopen on next Tuesday."

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/763710.shtml

Maybe this is a beginning of a much bigger case. Maybe the hotel has another serial killer resident?
Just a strange feeling this is far from over.

 

[Marlon]

From the same forums, concerning the meaning of the graf in the pic

" if there is a "per" thats out of the shot?
then we have "perfect c <modsnip>"
and what if hersum was one word?
check it
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hersum
hersum in etymology means "obedient"

so we we have "perfect obedient c <modsnip>" as graffiti,,,

How nice...

 

[Robert White]

From the same forums....

" if there is a "per" thats out of the shot?
then we have "perfect c <modsnip>"
and what if hersum was one word?
check it
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hersum
hersum in etymology means "obedient"

so we we have "perfect obedient c <modsnip>" as graffiti,,,

How nice...

I don't want to read into that too much, but that seems very coincidental doesn't it? Something that obvious must have been picked up by LE already...

 

[BuzzieCat]

Edit: In regards to her killing herself via drowning. Its been a very long time since I've taken part in any statistics for suicide. So this will have to be verified via our health care members. However, if I recall correctly, suicide by drowning is exceptionally rare. Due to all that science stuff, you can't actually drown yourself without assistance, ie. weights, otherwise you'll keep popping back up. She was found naked, and no media reports have shown weight attachments, which means nothing to weigh her down. As we all know, inhaling water into your lungs is extremely painful. Try dying like that - you'll likely quit before you die unless something is keeping you submerged.

<Snipped for space>
If she went into the tank alive, she probably couldn't get back out and could have eventually lost the strength to tread water.

 

[x_files]

Are there any medical sources that back this up? I know we don't know she was on the cocktail at the time of her trip, but if we can verify she had ingested drugs (and she did post photos of the pills side by side so I'd I'd say very strong possibility she took them) within 9 months that could lead to mania, then it becomes much less of a leap to think she went on the roof alone, got confused, and started climbing things.

If she was telling the truth on her own tumblr account Adderall was one of the drugs listed. You can research the side effects of Adderall.
I have witnessed two friends who mixed beer with Adderall and boy there behavior was bizarre.
I do not think Elisa willingly climbed into a water tank though. I think it made her vulnerable a victim to a crime.

 

[Robert White]

<Snipped for space>
If she went into the tank alive, she probably couldn't get back out and could have eventually lost the strength to tread water.

True, but then it would have been more of an accident :great: Sorry, just arguing semantics! You make a good point. However, if Elisa was hypothetically in the tank and no one was keeping her there, and she still had nominal strength left, "water leaping" is not hard to do. Assuming water levels were at 3/4 of course. Also didn't someone mention there was a ladder inside the tank for cleaning? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Marlon]

I don't want to read into that too much, but that seems very coincidental doesn't it? Something that obvious must have been picked up by LE already...

It is very far fetched realy,.. Tho, who knows!