CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

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People often buy stuff from other countries that are available locally. Why would you go through the charade?

The best thing to do is to treat it as a murder. If you're wrong, you waste some resources. But if you treat her death as her own doing and you're wrong - someone got away with it, and may kill again.
 
If she had just pressed the door hold button then it would have been obvious. (the second time she pressed many more buttons - but also the door hold button) - would that explain why she pressed the buttons in this way?

Is it possible she just walked up the fire escape, climbed on to the utility(?) building, jumped down on to the tank, levered off the hatch -

I'm guessing that the LE aren't ruling out suicide - so they must think it's possible that she did manage to climb into the tank of her own accord.

Whatever the outcome, may Elisa Rest in Peace
 
sounds more logical then an invisible killer as there is nobody seen in the video but the girl.

Is it possible that Elisa wanted to commit suicide, but didn't want to bring shame to her family?

Is it possible that she didn't intend to go to the organic farm, but planned to go the The Cecil Hotel all along because she was aware of its reputation?

Is it possible that she intentionally acted as if she was being followed / was drugged? (did she look at the camera?)

In an interview with the bookshop worker it was said that Elisa wanted to buy books and records for her family as presents - but why would a traveller - of which I was one for many years - want to carry books and records to an organic farm? and aren't books and records available everywhere? on Amazon etc?

Perhaps she spent the 3 / 4 nights at the hotel figuring how best to make her suicide look like a murder - to save the 'face' of her family.

I'm not saying I think this - just throwing the idea out there.
 
sounds more logical then an invisible killer as there is nobody seen in the video but the girl.

Killers are often "invisible" until they're caught.

If it were a suicide, at least she was polite enough to close the lid after herself. :waitasec:
 
To all our newest members! Welcome to WebSleuths!

:greetings:

Everyone:

Let's be kind and respectful to all please!
 
Killers are often "invisible" until they're caught.

If it were a suicide, at least she was polite enough to close the lid after herself. :waitasec:

Why not,.. if she doesnt want to be found.... I can even imagine the cops not even have bothered checking there the first place, lid or no lid!
but where on official newsreports does it state that the lid was closed?
Maybe i missed that
 
Why not,.. if she doesnt want to be found.... I can even imagine the cops not even have bothered checking there the first place, lid or no lid!
but where on official newsreports does it state that the lid was closed?
Maybe i missed that

Do you really think the girl would want to drown herself in a water tank like that? First off drowning is an awful way to go...secondly, Would she not have some idea that the building uses the water in those tanks and that she'd be subjecting all of the residents and guests to water contaminated by her dead body?

I honestly don't think that she would find this concept very pleasant or desirable.

In addition, the idea of making her suicide look like a homicide in order to save the face of her family certainly seems plausible enough.....but...I'm sure she realized that the police still had a chance of finding out the truth, and then her family would be shamed anyway.

I think her talking about suicide on her tumblr is significant. It means she had spent some time at least thinking about it. I suffer from depression myself and wonder about it sometimes but would never EVER act upon it. It looks like Elisa was going through a lot of transitions in her life. Lots of changes and uncertainty and that on top of her mental disorders is a lot for one young woman's shoulders.

That being said, I just don't think this is a case of suicide.

Goodnight all...nearly 2 am in Melb and if I fall asleep like this I'll drop the ipad on my face. Lol. Has happened before sadly!


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Oh one thing before I forget....I showed my boyfriend the CCTV footage of Elisa to ask his impression. I know many think its best to focus on the cistern but I feel the video is very important as well, as it's strange and may have been her last moments alive.

Of course there's much we can't or won't be able to know, at least until we find out the toxicology results, but FWIW:

Boyfriend right away thinks she looks nervous and that she is definitely hiding from somebody. Thinks she pushed many buttons so whoever she is nervous about won't know which floor to follow her to.

I asked what he thought about her seeming calmness when she first enters the elevator. He brought up an interesting thought...he told me of course she's relatively calm because she thinks she's on her way to safety. This might also explain the dramatic arm swing just before she pushes the buttons, kind of like a cocky sort of "take THAT".

Then when the door doesn't shut she knows something is wrong. He says at this point her fear is escalating, and she begins to become unglued piece by piece as her fear mounts. As for the little hop she does, he saw it as total nervous energy, Same with hand motions. He said he didn't feel she was communicating with someone, but self-soothing, calming herself, and because of flight or fight adrenaline was coursing through her.

As for her moving in and out of the elevator, his impression was that she wanted options....since the elevator wasn't moving, she didn't want to be cornered inside, so she'd proverbially keep one foot out the door in case she had to go an alternate way.note she does not move far from the door, and is in fact standing in front of the central panel where the elevator call buttons would be located. Keeping her back against the elevators is also a safety tactic. Also, it's possible she was carefully pushing the elevator call button to try to get the other one to open. Either it did open and she walks away into that elevator or somewhere else, we don't know.

His overall impression was that she thought she was practically safe once she first got into the elevator (note the relative speed when she first steps in. It's clear she wanted in) but once it didn't shut (possibly because she pushed "door hold" due to her bad eyesight) she got VERY alarmed. One would think almost exaggeratedly alarmed. So I think you could say she was practically expecting to be followed. Noone was there, she started freaking out because the elevator was not closing, panicking because she didn't know how to get to her floor. Maybe she managed to calm herself for a moment with her hand gestures. Maybe she thought, I could try the fire exit?? And who knows if someone showed up then?






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depends how her mentalstate of mind was at that time.
But judging from the video, To me it seems she is not 100% from the moment she enters the elevator, u can tell by the way she brings her hand and arm down to the buttons when bending over, she then clearly blocks the door herself by pressing the blockbutton and is then suprised by it. The breakdown It commences from there.
She is even looking suprised by herself when she comes back in the elevator.
Either quit medication long before so her inner demons could take slowly over and revealing itself that night, bad combo of meds or maybe mixed her meds with alcohol,,witch i doubt tho cos peeps on meds ussualy know that drinking doesnt combine. I put my money on the quiting medication.. This ilooks like ultimate act of bipolar.
I just hope she was not murdered. Though im not blind and the possibility is there just as strong.

Do you really think the girl would want to drown herself in a water tank like that? First off drowning is an awful way to go...secondly, Would she not have some idea that the building uses the water in those tanks and that she'd be subjecting all of the residents and guests to water contaminated by her dead body?

I honestly don't think that she would find this concept very pleasant or desirable.

In addition, the idea of making her suicide look like a homicide in order to save the face of her family certainly seems plausible enough.....but...I'm sure she realized that the police still had a chance of finding out the truth, and then her family would be shamed anyway.

I think her talking about suicide on her tumblr is significant. It means she had spent some time at least thinking about it. I suffer from depression myself and wonder about it sometimes but would never EVER act upon it. It looks like Elisa was going through a lot of transitions in her life. Lots of changes and uncertainty and that on top of her mental disorders is a lot for one young woman's shoulders.

That being said, I just don't think this is a case of suicide.

Goodnight all...nearly 2 am in Melb and if I fall asleep like this I'll drop the ipad on my face. Lol. Has happened before sadly!


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It is also worth noting here that certain SSRI's (most) can cause a lack of appetite that causes (or arguably directly causes) a Vitamin B2 deficiency. Vitamin B2 deficiency causes lack of feeling in your limbs (having your feet up to a fire and ending up with third degree burns without noticing), dizziness, vision problems, and even MORE insomnia. (Just thinking outloud here)

Also, adderall can cause anorexia (not anorexia nervosa, just a loss of appetite) as well.
 
Either on this forum or via a link posted here, someone theorized that on her second entry into the elevator (where she was leaning over pressing multiple buttons) she could have been talking to someone through an "emergency type" speaker. I don't know if this is possible, but even if it is... wouldn't it likely have been reported by media?
 
This is my first post. I have been drawn to this case because Elisa sounds somewhat like a younger version of me. I am of Chinese descent, grew up in Asia, travelled to the West as a single lone female when I was just a few years shy of Elisa's age. In my personal experience, mental illness is a taboo subject in Chinese families (I can't speak for all, just for those in my experience). Also, as someone who suffered from depression as a teen, and fell out with my folks, I know the urge to soul-search, to see the world, to try and make a new start, a new change in a different place, is very strong. I did it. I lived to tell the tale and I feel lucky. Though I have to admit personality-wise, I'm a bit more cautious and less sociable than Elisa. I was aware of the "darker side" of humanity from my family life, and already developed a sense of intuition and a way of sussing people out. I also have a pretty good gut feeling about people and will not hesitate to walk away or leave a place I have booked to stay in if someone in there gives me a really bad/weird vibe. I was prescribed Celexa for my anxiety/depression once, but never took to it and had really strong side effects with it even on a half dose, so I stopped (despite my doctor's warnings, etc.). Ever since then I have never really been on any psychiatric medication. Experimented with street drugs, yes. But I never liked them too much either, they left me very vulnerable and doing weird things and not thinking clearly. I like to have my wits about me. Also I have some allergies and I react to drugs of many kinds more strongly than average people it seems. So yeah although not being able to hold my drink or drugs (or even ciggie smoke for that matter) wasn't "cool" at that age, it somehow helped me to stay pretty clean off substances.

I watched the video of her in the elevator and it does seem really odd behaviour from the get go. I really don't think there is any semblance to Chinese dance movements. I just get the feeling she is not all there in the head. Whether it is a mental condition due to her illness, or if she was under the influence of a drug, I don't know. But the whole thing seems very abnormal.

I also get a very strong feeling she was alone in all of that video. I really do. I don't get the feeling at all that she was interacting with anyone - or at least, no one real. Granted there are no camera videos of what was happening outside of the elevator to support this, I can't be sure. But I get the feeling she was either talking to an imaginary friend or to herself.

Someone asked if her actions may be Asian influenced more depending on how long she's been living in Canada. Well according to this news report (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/21/us/california-hotel-water-corpse) it says her parents' restaurant has been around for nine years. So give or take - maybe they were there a year or so before setting up the restaurant - I would say maybe Elisa has been in Canada for around 10 years, since the age of about 10 or 11 years old? I would say that she would probably have been more or less "Westernised" by her time of death. So no don't really think her actions are characteristic of Asians or trying to act cutesy. I also do not really believe the poster who said she might be planning a suicide and therefore did it this way to avoid bringing shame to her family. That to me, seems very far-fetched. Not even a modern Asian girl from Hong Kong or say, Singapore today cares that much about "honour" to a family to the extent of planning a suicide this way! I mean come on. Even when I was Elisa's age (that was more than 10 years ago, and I'm revealing my age, lol) I did not care that much about family "honour" when I was depressed and just wanted out of my life by travelling abroad when I could. The depression and the sense that I had to get out of my old life was so strong that it eclipsed anything else in my life - family "honour" being one of my last priorities at that point. I can't speak for her, but if she was so depressed, it makes sense that she would not have cared that much about family "honour" to want to plan an elaborate suicide (crossing a continent, finding a hotel with a water tank, working out how to use that tank to die?!) . Especially if relations between her and her family were not that great. From her Tumblr posts (and it does seem like it is hers) it sounds like she is not feeling her family understands her well. Also people like that normally leave a suicide note, don't they? If it was planned? But she didn't leave a suicide note at all, or at least it's not been reported. So I don't know, just a guess, but I just think this was not a suicide.

I do think its odd she didn't have her glasses on though. My daughter needed glasses since about 3 and she has never liked going a day without them because she can't see well without them. I don't know how bad Elisa's eyesight is. If she was under the influence of drugs though, or if she was suffering from a mental problem at that point, then yes it makes sense she would not be doing logical things like making sure she has her glasses on when going around places, like leaving her room to go in the lift to get somewhere - especially if she was going to the roof to hang out! What are the chances of falling off a high rooftop if you can't see well and don't have glasses on?

The picture posted earlier from a Chinese newspaper, taken of the inside of the water tank is interesting. It seems there are no ladders inside the water tank. So if she did go in to hide, and the tank was empty, she would probably sustain quite a big fall since she couldn't slowly ease herself in with a ladder. But the autopsy didn't say there were bruises found on her body?? Let's say the tank was full of water, and she just plopped into the water and drowned. But she was found face up and her cause of death is not ascertained from the autopsy - meaning she did not drown when she died?? I am inclined to believe she did not climb into the tank at all to die. In fact, I think her body was hidden away and then dumped in there later by someone. I am wondering, since her body was already in a state of decomposition (I don't know how a decomposed human body looks like but I imagine it would be full of mouldy green and black or blue spots perhaps?) would it make it harder for the autopsy to detect bruises sustained from say, an assault attempt on her when she was alive, say? I'm just wondering how much an autopsy on an already decomposing body that has been floating in water can reveal. If it can reveal as much at all.

Sadly I have a worry that this case may never be solved and the poor family will never have closure. But I do hope this won't be the case.
 
The Elisa Lam case bears some striking similarities to the Japanese short story Floating Water, later made into a Japanese Movie called, Dark Water(2002), and an American movie called, Dark Water(2005).

In Dark Water the body of a young girl who lived on her own in a run down apartment block, and who went missing, is found in a water tank on the roof.

Residents report the water running black (as did residents of the Cecil Hotel).

The story strongly features supernatural activity and death centered around an elevator (Elisa Lam's bizarre behavior in the elevator).

In the US remake of the film (2005) the main character is called 'Dahlia'. The actual Cecil Hotel was apparently a one time 'haunt' of Black Dahlia murder mystery victim Elizabeth Short. Dahlia's daughter in the film is called Ceci. Elisa is a shortened name of Elisabeth... or Elizabeth Short. Strange ritual.
 
Either on this forum or via a link posted here, someone theorized that on her second entry into the elevator (where she was leaning over pressing multiple buttons) she could have been talking to someone through an "emergency type" speaker. I don't know if this is possible, but even if it is... wouldn't it likely have been reported by media?


I think they ASUME she was talking cos there is a intercom below the button panel, but since there is no audio.... Who can tell?
 
I think they ASUME she was talking cos there is a intercom below the button panel.,... No?

No, people assume she was talking because of the myriad theories built around someone standing off-screen, someone edited out of the video, someone there only in spirit, etc., etc., etc. No matter how many times someone posts that what's in the video is all that's there and we need to move on, someone else will find the video and this thread and feel the overwhelming urge to post here and tell us how they cracked the code...
 
The picture posted earlier from a Chinese newspaper, taken of the inside of the water tank is interesting. It seems there are no ladders inside the water tank. So if she did go in to hide, and the tank was empty, she would probably sustain quite a big fall since she couldn't slowly ease herself in with a ladder. But the autopsy didn't say there were bruises found on her body?? Let's say the tank was full of water, and she just plopped into the water and drowned. But she was found face up and her cause of death is not ascertained from the autopsy - meaning she did not drown when she died??

Another picture shows a hose that appears to be coming out of the tank. It's possible water was pumped out of the tank before the body was removed, making the depth of the water in the picture taken after her removal significantly lower than it had been. There have been no substantive reports on the position, condition, or clothing status of the body when it was found, although there are plenty of posts, tweets, and articles asserting such evidence without a quote from LE or someone at the rescue scene. Some of the posts here have lead to others accepting them as new facts; they include things like, "This guy on Twitter knew about it first and he said...." or "This network broke the story before she was identified and they said...", but none of it is backed up by links.

As far as the autopsy goes, the body was likely sitting in water for three weeks. There may have been signs of drowning that the coroner deemed could potentially have manifested themselves after her time of death, during her time in the tank. So they are waiting for the toxicology tests to see if those might be more conclusive before closing the book on how Elisa died.
 
No, people assume she was talking because of the myriad theories built around someone standing off-screen, someone edited out of the video, someone there only in spirit, etc., etc., etc. No matter how many times someone posts that what's in the video is all that's there and we need to move on, someone else will find the video and this thread and feel the overwhelming urge to post here and tell us how they cracked the code...

Kenmore, with all due respect, different people have different perspectives and might be able to shed some light on certain aspects of the video and Elisa's behaviour. This is just our way of trying to process and understand. I think it's safe to say when we throw our theories out there it's not like we're saying "this is it!" More it gives us some food for thought. New ideas....

Through analyzing the video as best we can with our limited resources and knowledge of the circumstances, we've been able to sort some things out that give us even a slightly clearer idea of what's going on. So if you don't see the use in analyzing the video, don't do it and let those of us interested in doing so do just that, and you focus on what you want to :)


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No, people assume she was talking because of the myriad theories built around someone standing off-screen, someone edited out of the video, someone there only in spirit, etc., etc., etc. No matter how many times someone posts that what's in the video is all that's there and we need to move on, someone else will find the video and this thread and feel the overwhelming urge to post here and tell us how they cracked the code...

And, there is something wrong with that?
 
Lots of information they are not telling us at this point. I suppose sitting around waiting 6 to 8 weeks is killing me. I can't stand the suspense any longer!
 
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