CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

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Hee's a recent news update on EL...Police found no wounds on her body...Did they check to see if she drowned?

Or someone drowned her, knowing no one would check the water tank for a very long time and possibly her corpse in the water for so long, LE would'nt be able to determine drowning as a cause of death?



Police have said that detectives had been hoping the autopsy would help determine if her death was the result of an accident or foul play.

"They didn't find any bullet holes, they didn't find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you've got to go to the next step," Los Angeles County Coroner's spokesman Ed Winter said.


http://news.yahoo.com/no-trauma-signs-body-canadian-woman-found-l-194853963.html
 
Hi guys...
here are some more pics by someone on a chinese forum that went into cecil to investigate..can the chinese readers here help with the translations please? Thanks,
lots of pictures on the elevator and also the 14th floor and other floors...

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-96.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-97.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-98.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]
 
Local public radio KPCC reported that the Cecil hotel has had dark chapters in its long history, including murders in the '20s and '30s and a woman who leapt from a window in the 1960s.

The radio station said that two serial killers were known to have stayed there in the 1980s: Richard Ramirez, known as the "Night Stalker," and Austrian murderer Jack Unterweger.



http://news.yahoo.com/no-trauma-signs-body-canadian-woman-found-l-194853963.html
 
Hee's a recent news update on EL...Police found no wounds on her body...Did they check to see if she drowned?

Or someone drowned her, knowing no one would check the water tank for a very long time and possibly her corpse in the water for so long, LE would'nt be able to determine drowning as a cause of death?



Police have said that detectives had been hoping the autopsy would help determine if her death was the result of an accident or foul play.

"They didn't find any bullet holes, they didn't find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you've got to go to the next step," Los Angeles County Coroner's spokesman Ed Winter said.


http://news.yahoo.com/no-trauma-signs-body-canadian-woman-found-l-194853963.html

I'm guessing the first thing they did was check for outside trauma (found none), and then checked for water in the lungs (little to none), so they are all scratching their heads.

I think she died of hypothermia. I think the suspect simply marched her directly to the tank, ordered her to climb inside, and he closed the lid and forgot about her.

I think the cold water slowed her decay, but when the weather warmed up halfway through the month, she started to decompose, which caused the water to get blackish.

To me, this explains why they think she was placed in the tank about halfway through the month, when the truth is she's been in the tank the whole time.
 
I know that on the mezzanine they have an area with computers. I had also read on the Stay at main website that they have a Stay lounge area on the 6th floor.

There are computers and a kitcheny area and a small area with a TV on the mezzanine. I never saw this additional lounge area on the 6th floor. I was there two years ago.

Even if I had heard of it, I wouldn't have gone. That place feels like the Shining. Being close to the front desk staff and exits was waaaaaaaaayyyyy better than even being in my room.
 
This is my interpretation of what was going on with Elisa. It is the only one I could think of that is consistent with all her actions, gestures and expressions in the video.

I hope you read with an open mind and do not jump to conclusions before reaching the end.

As to what caused the state of mind she was in, it could be drug-induced hallucination or some other things. If you like to know more about ambien-induced sleepwalking, ThinkHard posted an excellent description in post #29 of thread #1.

To me, far from trying to get away quickly, she was actually expecting "people" to join her in the elevator. I place people in inverted commas because we cannot see what she was seeing in her mind. So all my references to people or persons are what I think she was experiencing.

These are the reasons why I am saying those who believe she was trying to escape got it wrong:

Look at the body language - the casual way she entered the elevator, the roundabout swing of the arm instead of hitting the buttons straight, and pausing a second or two to peer at the panel before meticulously pressing each button one by one. Short-sighted yes, but why waste precious time if rushing to escape?

And on her re-entry, why go through the same buttons in the same sequence 3 more times if the first 2 times already did not work? Why not try pressing the other buttons to see if they could get the elevator moving?

So, she was not trying to get away as quickly as possible. On the contrary, my theory is that she pressed the floor buttons for other people whom she was expecting to join her in the elevator. She pressed the Door Hold button to keep the door open for them. And she was expecting 4 of them.

My first thought was that the 4 of them were adults. But I could not tie this with the rest of the video, especially the hand gesture part, until I read a psychic's reading that she was looking for something low because of the way she first stooped to look outside.

Then it dawned on me that she was waiting not for 4 adults but for 4 little children, and then the whole video made sense. She pressed the 4 floors for them and waited for them to show up. They didn't. She thought they were cheekily playing hide-n-seek with her. So she responded playfully in kind, just like how a 20+ age babysitter would play with her young wards.

(She pressed 6 buttons in total and they were for floors 14, 10, 7, 4, M and Door Hold. The 14th floor was where she was on so it was redundant, leaving floors 10, 7, 4 and M for the 4 kids.)

Failing to see the children, she stood outside waiting a long while and they still did not show up. Bewildered, with hands placed on head, she came back in wondering if she had pressed the button sequence correctly. She redid the sequence 3 times to be sure (indicative of a code or a ritual, or of the 4 floors for the 4 children), and then walked out seemingly assured again. (Look closely at all her body language clues and facial expression.)

This time the children appeared on her right and she was immediately relieved to see them, placing a hand to her chest and flashing a smile. She looked towards them and patted each of them as they entered the elevator one by one (a total of 4 pats). Note how the patting motion moved towards the elevator, as if she was placing her hand on the child's head or shoulder as the child entered the elevator.

(As for the splayed hands, they can be explained as exaggerated gestures caused by drug-induced hallucinations, much like a normally shy person talking loudly and uninhibitedly under the influence of alcohol.)

Next, she turned towards someone on her front left and seemed to be relating or reporting with much joy what she had just accomplished, while counting out with her hands the 4 children or the 4 floors that she had pressed the elevator buttons for. Her bouncing or skipping motions were manifestations of the joy she was feeling.

(Yes, she counted 4, not 3. Counts 1 and 2 are subtly in close succession between 2:12 to 2:14. Watch that segment again.)

Finally, she paused for a few seconds as though she was listening to some instructions or waiting to follow behind the other person. Note that she did not step directly towards the left but her right foot stepped forward first towards the center of the corridor. The left foot then stepped forward to directly in front of the right foot. She then made an abrupt turn to the left causing the right foot to cross the front of the left foot in such a way that the final thing we see of her was her left heel.

So, does the above make sense? Well, it may not make 100% sense to us, but to her in the whatever state of mind she was in, it could be what she was going through. Of course, I admit that it is all highly speculative but it is the only explanation I could find that is consistent with all her gestures and expressions in the video.

There are one or two unanswered questions. Firstly, why was she on the 14th floor? I don't think any of us can answer that until and if we can get to see the video of how she got there in the first place. Secondly, how did she end up in the water tank? This we will have to wait for the conclusion of the police investigation. But what if there was no foul play? Then you might want to read my post #534 on the startling discovery I made when I googled the elevator button numbers 14, 10, 7 and 4 just to see whether they could mean anything.

Thank you for reading and keeping an open mind.

Yeah. Maybe she saw her fairy godmother, who told her to press those buttons, so she can get a wish. And after she pressed those buttons, she wished to become famous.

Or maybe she saw the devil on her shoulder and it told her to press those buttons, and the angel on the other shoulder told her not to. The devil told her to take the stairs, and the angel told her to stay inside the elevator. In the end, she listened to the devil.

I admit these are highly speculative, but we need to keep an open mind.
 
Googled "Loving Hut" and "cult" not that I have any reason to believe it is a cult but just to get any negative press - someone is asking if it is a cult says friend's daughter shaved head lives above Loving Hut meditates all day.

Says the master is supposed to have magical powers and that devotees drink her bathwater to achieve enlightenment admits this is rumour.

OK this is not evidence of anything - but just to document - see what else I can find.
Loving Hut is run by [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Hai"]Ching Hai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
I too would appreciate a translation of what they are saying on the chinese websites.

They do seem to be demonstrating that when Elisa was standing outside the elevator she was standing directly in front of the mirror opposite.

They also have a large red dot on one of the rooms.

Is this Elisa's room?
 
http://www.metafilter.com/91928/Loving-Hut

See last account on this blog about Loving Hunt Peace Corps volunteer - goes to Republic (NOT the American state) of Georgia finds there is only one English language station there - that of Ching Hai of Loving Hut fame shows translated into 15 languages - some emphasis on BOTTLED WATER being sent to Japan though that seems normal enough. Previous post I mentioned the rumoured claim that devotees achieve enlightenment through drinking her bath water - take all of this with a grain of salt for now.... but interesting... we have no evidence she was interested in the group - liking vegan food very trendy now and of course more than that strong ethical arguments etc.

There is a strange case in Toronto of a Georgian girl missing and found dead in Toronto she went missing very close to the Eglinton Avenue address of the Loving Hut which may be closed now - there was actually talk at one point of the possibility of her having joined a cult led by a Georgian didn't pan out - never heard any mention of Ching Hai. The one thing in common between the two cases IMO is that more or less obvious homicides were treated as possibly being accidental. Just my opinion though.

Not to link things up to excess - I hope I am not.

And answering Think Hard yes I met Loving Hut in previous post sorry for typo not a good one! Just read your post so expect you will think I am going overboard. Well I think so too. But just to document - you never know. Still interested in Toronto trip for reasons as I say I haven't developed yet. Possible that hotel with crazies convenient way to obscure a crime. Possible as well she was taken by someone even cab driver to Cecil this has happened to me before in Mexico City and Athens e.g. you name a hotel they take you somewhere else - it is late you say oh what the heck I will stay here for now.............

Hey I'm not trying to stomp on your theory, none of us have any clue so theory away.

But I don't think I ever associated loving hut with anything other then vegan food. They have Canadian location in Toronto and Vancouver, so she might have been familiar with the franchise. Here's the website for Canadian loving huts

http://www.lovinghut.ca/
 
To be honest I've watched this video many times, and I still cannot understand how anyway sees her as smiling or being playful at any point in the video.

I don't see her as being playful either, but here's a smile:

Elisa+Lam%252BCecil+Hotel%252BWater+Tank%252BLos+Angeles%252BVancouver%252BBritish+Columbia%252BBody+Language+Expert%252BNonverbal+Communication+Expert%252BSpeaker%252BKeynote%252BLas+Vegas%252BOrlando%252BSouthern+California%252BSmile%252BSexual+Attraction.png


(From the body language analysis guy http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html)

It looks like a wave, but it's weird how her hand is bent back so much. It looks less like a wave than the beginning of an "oh stop it!". (But a complete "oh stop it!" would have had a hand flick type of motion after, which she didn't do.)

Note, the fact that you can see both eyes meant her face was pointing considerably in towards the elevator's interior. But at this point it does look like her gaze was towards the right of the elevator, not into it.
 
I'm guessing the first thing they did was check for outside trauma (found none), and then checked for water in the lungs (little to none), so they are all scratching their heads.

I think she died of hypothermia. I think the suspect simply marched her directly to the tank, ordered her to climb inside, and he closed the lid and forgot about her.

I think the cold water slowed her decay, but when the weather warmed up halfway through the month, she started to decompose, which caused the water to get blackish.

To me, this explains why they think she was placed in the tank about halfway through the month, when the truth is she's been in the tank the whole time.

Why would someone march her to the roof and order her in a tank?
 
I don't see her as being playful either, but here's a smile:

Elisa+Lam%252BCecil+Hotel%252BWater+Tank%252BLos+Angeles%252BVancouver%252BBritish+Columbia%252BBody+Language+Expert%252BNonverbal+Communication+Expert%252BSpeaker%252BKeynote%252BLas+Vegas%252BOrlando%252BSouthern+California%252BSmile%252BSexual+Attraction.png


(From the body language analysis guy http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html)

It looks like a wave, but it's weird how her hand is bent back so much. It looks less like a wave than the beginning of an "oh stop it!". (But a complete "oh stop it!" would have had a hand flick type of motion after, which she didn't do.)

Note, the fact that you can see both eyes meant her face was pointing considerably in towards the elevator's interior. But at this point it does look like her gaze was towards the right of the elevator, not into it.

The video is so distorted, it hard to say if that is a smile for sure I would think.
 
I'm guessing the first thing they did was check for outside trauma (found none), and then checked for water in the lungs (little to none), so they are all scratching their heads.

I think she died of hypothermia. I think the suspect simply marched her directly to the tank, ordered her to climb inside, and he closed the lid and forgot about her.

I think the cold water slowed her decay, but when the weather warmed up halfway through the month, she started to decompose, which caused the water to get blackish.

To me, this explains why they think she was placed in the tank about halfway through the month, when the truth is she's been in the tank the whole time.



Good theory Futz -- Consider that the rooftop doorway has an alarm..these alarms can be de-activated by an alarm key...who has the alarm keys, hotel night supervisor and security has these keys at all times

And no one reported the alarm going off during the period EL went missing
Therefore, IMHO this crime was done by a hotel employee, someone with all access to everywhere in the hotel facility and was clever enough to evade ddetection
 
I don't see her as being playful either, but here's a smile:

Elisa+Lam%252BCecil+Hotel%252BWater+Tank%252BLos+Angeles%252BVancouver%252BBritish+Columbia%252BBody+Language+Expert%252BNonverbal+Communication+Expert%252BSpeaker%252BKeynote%252BLas+Vegas%252BOrlando%252BSouthern+California%252BSmile%252BSexual+Attraction.png


(From the body language analysis guy http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html)

It looks like a wave, but it's weird how her hand is bent back so much. It looks less like a wave than the beginning of an "oh stop it!". (But a complete "oh stop it!" would have had a hand flick type of motion after, which she didn't do.)

Note, the fact that you can see both eyes meant her face was pointing considerably in towards the elevator's interior. But at this point it does look like her gaze was towards the right of the elevator, not into it.

I don't know that it is a smile, any kind of facial expression could show those big pearly whites of hers.
 
Why would someone march her to the roof and order her in a tank?

Because the suspect just wanted to get rid of her.

He orders her out of sight of the camera, so he can mug her, and then he orders her to leave or he'll kill her. She tries to, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button. The suspect loses patience, so he orders her back, he places his gun to the back of her head, and probably says something like, "I told you I'd kill you, now I have to", and she starts doing that strange arm-wave (I suspect to try to trip the door sensor to keep the doors open). He then yanks her from the elevator, and she starts begging for her life (the strange "counting"). The suspect then marches her up to the roof, and tells her to enter the tank.
 




Good theory Futz -- Consider that the rooftop doorway has an alarm..these alarms can be de-activated by an alarm key...who has the alarm keys, hotel night supervisor and security has these keys at all times

And no one reported the alarm going off during the period EL went missing

The roof is easily accessed by anyone who can get to the fire escape.
 
Snipped:
To me, this explains why they think she was placed in the tank about halfway through the month, when the truth is she's been in the tank the whole time.

Hello, I've been hidden and lurking in this thread for some time :)

After reading this post and another previous post around 5 pages back, I would like to ask if any one considered the scenario that :
(1) Elisa wasn't dead when she was placed in the tank
(2) The water tank wasn't 3/4 full (i.e. only 1/4 or 1/2 full) so she wouldn't have drowned immediately :)
e.g. water levels go up and down since water is continously used..

--> Therefore, could she survived for one day (or two/three or more) before dying? :)
She has no shortage of water to drink...and death would be hypothermia or drowning if water levels rise above a certain level :)

How often does a frequently used water tank fill up to a level where she has to begin to swim?
 
Has anyone been able to determine how the tanks worked in regards to how they fed the building? Did certain tanks feed into certain areas of the hotel only?

I like this idea. Are such blueprints available in the city's library?
 
Because the suspect just wanted to get rid of her.

He orders her out of sight of the camera, so he can mug her, and then he orders her to leave or he'll kill her. She tries to, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button. The suspect loses patience, so he orders her back, he places his gun to the back of her head, and probably says something like, "I told you I'd kill you, now I have to", and she starts doing that strange arm-wave (I suspect to try to trip the door sensor to keep the doors open). He then yanks her from the elevator, and she starts begging for her life (the strange "counting"). The suspect then marches her up to the roof, and tells her to enter the tank.

So you think some one ordered her into a tank over mugging her? That doesn't sound like a very strong motive to me.

What did he mug of hers? She had no purse, she was wearing basketball shorts, which may not even have pockets, and a hoodie with little pockets. It's 2am and she just about walking around in her pajamas. What could she possibley have on her that's worth mugging and murdering her for?
 
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