CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[Xavier]

I still belive she was scared of somone, however I have come up with an alternative IMO plausible explanation that could explain al her strange movements/behaviour:

"The avoid/activate the "elevator door light beam sensor" theorie"

She start out wanting to go up or down with the elevator, but it woun´t work so;
She start trying to avoid the "elevator door light beam sensor" to make the elevator door close, later she tries to activate the "elevator door light beam sensor", also in order to try make the elvator work, at the end she give up and walk away, probably to use the staircase.

Have you considered the hotel security could be behind her missing?

Maybe a rogue security guard?

Friends of mine have worked for many years at Cincinnati,OH major hotels as 3rd shift security

They have keys, access to all the rooms, guest, conference, etc

They can turn off/on the security cams

And with a uniform can blend in very well, people don't suspect security going into rooms or walking the entire hotel facility, even the roof, so they know the hotels inside and out

And security also is accountible for knowing all employee work schedules, maintenance, delivery schedules as well, so possibly this perp knew no one would be checking the water tank for a very long time

Just some food for thought

 

[OCSlacker]

I sped the video up to 1.25 - the changing of the seconds on the video seemed to match up best with the ticking on my watch

Elisa Lam video at 1.25 Speed

Thanks for posting this video. Since I've joined I've had a # of different takes on this video. When I just watched it again it kinda clicked. I have yet to see confirmation that she is booked into a room on the 4th floor. We know from a Stay hotel guest on the forum that they originally tried to give him a room on 14 but he wasn't alone and they switched rooms to floor 4 for him.

Who's to say this isn't the floor she was staying on

Having checked in through stay I would assume she has the priveledges of a stay guest. That would include access to the stay lounge, which is on floor 7 or 6 from what I recall and the kitchen area. Also, 24hr laundry facilities. Don't know if they have them on the regular Cecil floors but let's assume she would use the kitchen of the Stay. ( they look modern and if they were on the Cecil floor could be cleaner then those)

Maybe she was going to the laundry facilities, lounge or Kitchen area on one of the Stay floors and forgot which floor they were on. Could be why she pushed the middle row. Maybe she knew it was one of those but couldn't remember which. She figures press the middle and based on decor she'll figure it out. Also, if she were just going down to perhaps get something she put in the fridge earlier,pick up clothes she put in the washer/dryer or to get a drink. Could be she just took off her contacts and didn't want to dig around for her glasses ( I know I have a hard time finding my glasses once I take my contacts out) so she figures the heck with it, it's a quick elevator ride and goes without them.

Once on the elevator she mistakenly pushes the hold button, not realizing she caused the elevator to not move she thinks someone else pushed the call button. Notice she waits a sec before getting concerned. I think it's because she expected someone to come into the elevator. She looks like she scares herself s bit because she can't figure out why it isn't moving. Notice when she first exits the elevator she jumps to the left where the call button is located. I think she expected someone pushed it and now no one is there she is even more freaked out. I also think she heard someone, either using the restroom/shower or walking to her right.

The hotel is creepy so I can see were she would be concerned about what is going on around her. Maybe she has had a very crappy experience since she checked in and now this is one more thing to add to the list. She comes back into the elevator and panics a bit, just wanting to get to the floor she was looking for and get back to her room after.. By this point the whole incident has her a little freaked out. When she exits she looks a little surprised but kind of relieved because she looks and sees whoever she heard earlier to her right. Caught a little off guard, she explains what's been going on. Possibly, she ex plains that she has been having bad experiences from first checking in and now this happens with the elevator. She thinks either 1) she'll take the stairs or 2) she wants to go back to her room.

I believe one of two things could have happened once she left that area. She was grabbed by someone on the way to wherever she was heading or someone gained access to her room.

I also believe she may have been smothered using a pillow or something because the person was raping her and it would muffle her attempts to scream for help. I think she may have been killed accidentally, although I wouldn't rule out that it was intentional to cover up the crime.

SMeinzer -can you remember if you passed a kitchen while you were on the 15th floor? Do you know which floor the Stay lounge is on,the laundry room and which floor the kitchens are on for Stay? Thanks in advance?

 

[Socrates]

I've read your previous posts on this and can only agree that her behavior does not necessarily mean she's talking to anyone but acting out some type of drama going on in her own mind.

I agree. It's possible that there was someone in the hall who deliberately avoided the camera, but her behavior doesn't seem to me to be consistent with that. First she seems to be looking straight ahead at herself in the mirror, as if no one else were there.

Later, when she is gesticulating, she seems to me facing down and to the right, at first, as if she were talking to the elevator door. And then when she's counting she's angled sort of diagonally toward the opposite wall, but still toward the right. And finally she kind of wanders off toward the left, casually, it seems to me, and as if she had forgotten whatever was engaging her on the right side.

All of this looks like she is indeed "acting out some type of drama going on in her own mind," rather than dealing with some person while in a normal state of mind.

*This is my first post here, but I've read all, or nearly all, of the previous posts here on Elisa Lam. It's interesting to see so many other people fascinated by this sad and mysterious case, as I am. And the discussion has been excellent. People here have put forth a lot of intriguing ideas and unearthed interesting articles, facts, videos, etc I wouldn't have found on my own.

 

[Chorley8]

Please bear with me I am looking into the Toronto trip for a reason can't quite get to here yet:

Anyone confirm that the Loving Hunt at 953 Eglinton Avenue West is closed - and the other one and Spadina and Richmond is open correct?

The two places in Canada the restaurants for the group ("cult" according to some though it seems benign enough) are in Toronto and Vancouver? She had been in both places last from Dec. on and MAY have been heading to a organic farm related to the group? Also staying in the "organic" hostel I mentioned in previous post.

 

[Turk February]

Have you considered the hotel security could be behind her missing?

Maybe a rogue security guard?

Friends of mine have worked for many years at Cincinnati,OH major hotels as 3rd shift security

They have keys, access to all the rooms, guest, conference, etc

They can turn off/on the security cams

And with a uniform can blend in very well, people don't suspect security going into rooms or walking the entire hotel facility, even the roof, so they know the hotels inside and out

Just some food for thought

smeinzer mentioned that Cecil Hotel might have hired 3rd party company security guards

 

[walklikeacat]

What is this room used for (marked with a black cirkel): http://imageshack.us/a/img33/2324/29131710.png

On the video "Cecil hotel tour" - when he he walking around on different floors - you can see this room at the same place(2:52-3:03):http://imageshack.us/a/img208/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png

You can also see the that intrance on another floor (4:57): http://imageshack.us/a/img703/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png

I think this is some kind of a livingroom which can be used for everyone who is staying on that floor. And I think Elisa has been in there on 14th floor - if it is a livingroom.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thanks I have no experience with this so it's good info

The one thing we do know about this crazy case is that when the tox screens come back we'll be able to answer the was she taking any meds question.

We probably still won't know what happened but it will be another scrap of information

Hopefully we will know. Though there are a few reasons we may not...the biggest being the length of time her body was in the water tank for, and the fact that her organs who's tissues would hold these toxins could potentially be deleted enough to make these results inconclusive. I don't know too much about forensics, but I do know I decent amount about pathophysiology so this is what I'm basing my guess on in terms of the tissues ability to retain detectable levels of toxins. I'm sure someone on this board knows more then I do in regards to that though.

Also since we do not know the exact amount of time she was in the water tank, its also possible she was kept alive somewhere for a few days before being killed and being placed in the tank. So depending on if she was later drugged to death, by a drug other then what she might have had in her system the night of the elevator video (say chloroform, just as an example). Then she may not have any signs of the drugs from the night of the elevator video in her tox reports, but rather evidence of the drug she had closer to her time of death.

Also I'm just thinking out loud, if she took her rx meds religiously I'm wondering if these would have residual effects in the body, and if it would be possible to distinguish these from that of a single use drug. I'm thinking yes...

Finally all drugs act in different ways on the body and have different time limits for how long their is evidence of them in the body, so depending on when drugs were taken or given to her, and how those times corresponded to her death, it might be difficult to determine all potential drugs involved in the sequence of this crime. And I do not know the half life's of each drug, so I can't shed any light on that.

Sorry for rambling, its late, and I'm not even sure I explained that well.

Simply put, even with thorough toxology testing a complete picture is not a guarantee for a multitude of possible reasons.

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

Thanks for posting this video. Since I've joined I've had a # of different takes on this video.

...

SMeinzer -can you remember if you passed a kitchen while you were on the 15th floor? Do you know which floor the Stay lounge is on and which floor the kitchens are on for Stay? Thanks in advance?

I was a guest of the hotel. I think it's on the floor marked M. It's just one above the lobby.

 

[ThinkHard]

OMG, everybody seems to be seeing different things from the video. This is no good.

Haha! I know huh! Confusing.

I actually thought your idea was pretty good.

I guess I just don't see playfulness as in lucid playfulness. As in a fully with it individual interacting with other guests in a game of elevator tag.

I do personally think she thinks something is going on, and she is acting deliberately based on this reality, her reality (after all perception is reality to the person living it). But I tend to lean toward her reality being in a state of ambien night walking.

 

[Chorley8]

Googled "Loving Hut" and "cult" not that I have any reason to believe it is a cult but just to get any negative press - someone is asking if it is a cult says friend's daughter shaved head lives above Loving Hut meditates all day.

Says the master is supposed to have magical powers and that devotees drink her bathwater to achieve enlightenment admits this is rumour.

OK this is not evidence of anything - but just to document - see what else I can find.

 

[OCSlacker]

I was a guest of the hotel. I think it's on the floor marked M. It's just one above the lobby.

I know that on the mezzanine they have an area with computers. I had also read on the Stay at main website that they have a Stay lounge area on the 6th floor.

 

[CuriousB]

I am having a hard time believing she is talking to herself. She's looking off to the right with her eyes fixed as if her speech were directed at someone in particular. If she wanted to talk to herself, there's a mirror to her left in which she can do so. Also, I don't think anyone uses such huge gestures/animated body language when they're just talking to themselves.

No, look at her face and eyes as she turned to the right during the gesturing sequence. She's looking INSIDE the elevator. Not completely inside, but sort of towards where the buttons panel is.

If she was talking to somebody, she would have looked directly in their direction even if she was blind as a bat, even if only for a second just to establish initial contact. But her gaze went straight into the elevator without pausing.

OK, that's my impression anyway.

BTW, I had not noticed that she stood up on her tip toe at one point until I read the analysis by the body-language guy.

-----
<EDIT>
Sorry, I re-watched the 1.25X version of the video and she DOES look to the right for a moment before turning her gaze inside the elevator. So I take it back. She could have been talking to somebody. And since she was pretty blind without glasses probably it wouldn't have been too useful to maintain eye contact....
</EDIT>
<EDIT2>
In the latter part of the gesturing sequence she was facing the light. Doesn't look like she's facing far enough right to be looking at the hallway or the shower room
</EDIT2>

 

[Xavier]

What is this room used for (marked with a black cirkel): http://imageshack.us/a/img33/2324/29131710.png

On the video "Cecil hotel tour" - when he he walking around on different floors - you can see this room at the same place(2:52-3:03):http://imageshack.us/a/img208/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png

You can also see the that intrance on another floor (4:57): http://imageshack.us/a/img703/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png

I think this is some kind of a livingroom which can be used for everyone who is staying on that floor. And I think Elisa has been in there on 14th floor - if it is a livingroom.

Is'nt the Cecil hotel a 15 floor hotel?

So if she's on the 14th floor, it would be easy, not alot of work to assault and leave her a very short distance to the roof


Also I'm wondering if the perp used the employee delivery elevator to do this crime...This extra elevator is typical in hotels and not used by the guests/public

 

[ThinkHard]

Please bear with me I am looking into the Toronto trip for a reason can't quite get to here yet:

Anyone confirm that the Loving Hunt at 953 Eglinton Avenue West is closed - and the other one and Spadina and Richmond is open correct?

The two places in Canada the restaurants for the group ("cult" according to some though it seems benign enough) are in Toronto and Vancouver? She had been in both places last from Dec. on and MAY have been heading to a organic farm related to the group? Also staying in the "organic" hostel I mentioned in previous post.

Is "Loving Hunt" a mistype? Did you mean "Loving Hut"?

If you did mean loving hut, it is an international franchised restaurant chain. There food is not organic but it is ALL vegan. There is one near me in MA, and when I lived in Istanbul I know there was one there too. They are all over the world. If you did mean this, I don't think its all that significant. I think it just tells us that elisa was perhaps vegan, or liked vegan restaurants.

 

[noodled1]

What is this room used for (marked with a black cirkel): http://imageshack.us/a/img33/2324/29131710.png

On the video "Cecil hotel tour" - when he he walking around on different floors - you can see this room at the same place(2:52-3:03):http://imageshack.us/a/img208/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png

You can also see the that intrance on another floor (4:57): http://imageshack.us/a/img703/5246/skrmavbild20130227kl060.png

I think this is some kind of a livingroom which can be used for everyone who is staying on that floor. And I think Elisa has been in there on 14th floor - if it is a livingroom.

It looks like a common area for residents. When I was young my great grandmother lived in an apartment that had an area like that on each floor. She had a little hotplate to use, one of those percolating coffee pots and sink just like in those pics of the Cecil

I suppose it's to keep those living there from cooking in their rooms.

 

[SmilingSweetly]

Former guests sue LA hotel where body was found


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...here-body-was-found-4311247.php#ixzz2M4jWHLjT

 

[FutzBucket]

To be honest I've watched this video many times, and I still cannot understand how anyway sees her as smiling or being playful at any point in the video.

It's not just you. I think your typical person has no idea what true terror looks like.

 

[ThinkHard]

Has anyone been able to determine how the tanks worked in regards to how they fed the building? Did certain tanks feed into certain areas of the hotel only?

 

[Chorley8]

http://www.metafilter.com/91928/Loving-Hut

See last account on this blog about Loving Hunt Peace Corps volunteer - goes to Republic (NOT the American state) of Georgia finds there is only one English language station there - that of Ching Hai of Loving Hut fame shows translated into 15 languages - some emphasis on BOTTLED WATER being sent to Japan though that seems normal enough. Previous post I mentioned the rumoured claim that devotees achieve enlightenment through drinking her bath water - take all of this with a grain of salt for now.... but interesting... we have no evidence she was interested in the group - liking vegan food very trendy now and of course more than that strong ethical arguments etc.

There is a strange case in Toronto of a Georgian girl missing and found dead in Toronto she went missing very close to the Eglinton Avenue address of the Loving Hut which may be closed now - there was actually talk at one point of the possibility of her having joined a cult led by a Georgian didn't pan out - never heard any mention of Ching Hai. The one thing in common between the two cases IMO is that more or less obvious homicides were treated as possibly being accidental. Just my opinion though.

Not to link things up to excess - I hope I am not.

And answering Think Hard yes I met Loving Hut in previous post sorry for typo not a good one! Just read your post so expect you will think I am going overboard. Well I think so too. But just to document - you never know. Still interested in Toronto trip for reasons as I say I haven't developed yet. Possible that hotel with crazies convenient way to obscure a crime. Possible as well she was taken by someone even cab driver to Cecil this has happened to me before in Mexico City and Athens e.g. you name a hotel they take you somewhere else - it is late you say oh what the heck I will stay here for now.............

 

[LI-LI]

I agree, I'm leaning toward the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with her death other than perhaps she was grabbed while in route to wherever she was going when she left the elevator or perhaps someone saw which room she came out of or went into and later found a way in himself. Although she may have been spotted leaving her room earlier in her stay and someone noticed she was alone or it could be an employee that knew she was booked in her room alone.

100% agree

In any regard I highly doubt it should be considered abnormal that she left the room without glasses and was on a floor other then the Stay floors. We don't know which floor she booked on and can name a # of reasons why she wouldn't need glasses..

I'm curious to know where her glasses were. I think it is crucial to know and it would give us hints where she was coming from and what she was doing. I'm certain she came from her room and probably was asleep or in an altered state. Unless she had lost her glasses and they had never been reported anywhere.