CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[mjak]

Clearly you have no experience with psychotic people. I have witnessed things in my line of work so bizzare they would blow your mind.

As a psychiatric nurse I am sure you have good insight to base your statement on. What I find difficult to believe is not that in a psychotic state she might have wanted to go into the tank but that she would have been able to get herself into that tank. I have looked at the pictures and there would be a lot of steps involved. Just accesing the tanks required two ladders and climbing. the lid does not look easily manipulated. The square opening does not look large enough for her to have fit through. If she was found wedged inbetween the tanks than I would agree with the psychotic state, but organizational steps that would be necessary for her to end up where she did makes me question that explanation.

mjak

 

[noodled1]

Can one of our smarter posters translate the writings on this pic please?

http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134568477.jpg

or if it's already been done lead me to a link

thanks in advance

 

[RhiannonR]

I work in the mental health profession and Elisa's actions in the elevator, especially her hand motions, are exactly the type of behavior i witness schizophrenics and people suffering mental breakdowns to have. Thats what originally got me interested in the case, I am fairly positive she is suffering from some sort of psychological break with reality in the video.

People seem to have the opinion that a mental illness is somehow shameful, and its disrespectful to Elisa to consider her having one. Its not. The stigma around mental illness is a real problem in this country and it needs to stop. Its a disease that people develop due to no fault of their own. Having cancer or leukemia isn't shameful, neither should having a mental illness. People need treatment for their disease not to pretend it doesn't exist.

Another key factor, if Elisa did have latent schizophrenia, this is precisely the age when it first starts to manifest itself. Its a definite possibility and one that should not be ruled out just because people have an aversion to it.

My thoughts too. She was right at the age where these diseases can start to become apparent. I too, have personal experience working the mentally ill and had a family member with schizophrenia.

 

[OCSlacker]

Hello,

I am writing in regard to an article you wrote on Elisa Lam on February 8, 2013. http://laist.com/2013/02/08/search_continues_for_missing_canadi.php

You wrote that Elisa Lam "arrived in Los Angeles on January 26", however she did not check into the Cecil until the 28th. We were under the impression that she was in San Diego until the 28th then proceeded to travel to LA and checked in that same day. Can you please confirm the date of her arrival in Los Angeles?


Her reply:

I'd urge you to contact the LAPD to get confirmation of dates like this. To the best of my understanding, Lam used L.A. as her travel center-point, so she traveled to L.A. from Vancouver, but then used public transit (Amtrak) to travel to San Diego. So she may have arrived her on 1/26 but gone on to San Diego before returning to check into her hotel. Again, that is just my understanding of the timeline based on the information we've been provided and that has been presented in other sites. Lindsay

&#9654; Show quoted text --Lindsay William-Ross Editor-in-Chief, LAist <http://laist.com

The article below states that her arrival in California was 1/26 not that she arrived in L.A. on 1/26.

http://www.globalmontreal.com/timel...appearance+of+elisa+lam/6442813355/story.html

I know a few have discounted this being her Tumblr account but having read through the various links that show a connection I believe it to be hers. It shows she had planned on being in San Diego on 1/26

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39940752951/i-just-got-my-flightbookd-vancouver-jan-18

I am only posting this because I can see someone going and making some sort of a connection to the "missing days" in LA to her disappearance. Although I see no connection to where she was staying on 1/26-1/28 to her death. However, I can see someone new coming on the forum or someone having not read every thread and attempting to make a connection in some way. I know it's a small detail but just thought I would add this info.

On another note, can anyone find any info on which floor she was staying on in the hotel??? I have raised this question on several occasions, people are still posting that she was on the 4th floor but have yet to see any links provided that would lead us to believe this is fact.

 

[windbags]

Well, we have to differ on this.

In my experience, her behavior is what I could easily see from somebody pretty frustrated with a piece of mechanical equipment. Maybe someone frustrated and slightly buzzed. I don't see that she had to be full out crazy or out of her mind drunk/high.

She could be sick in the head. But if I was investigating this, I would not assume that based on what people think somebody's hand motions and such mean in a short video without any other history of serious mental illness. I think it is a reckless assumption without any other proof.

I'm sure LE are investigating her mental history and psychological background thoroughly. Also part of the toxicology report will be determine if she was still taking her medication or had stopped taking them.

The fact that she was diagnosed bipolar and on a cocktail of meds is another piece of evidence pointing to a possible deteriorated mental state at the time of her death. Manic-depression and schizophrenia exist on the same spectrum. I've often seen people progress from one to the other, either in lieu of medication stoppage or just the individual's brain chemistry.

So this isn't a reckless assumption without any proof. There are a few indicators she might have had a mental breakdown of some sort. To fully discount that because it doesn't fit into a preferred hypothesis is a reckless assumption, imo. Its a possibility among possibilities.

 

[RhiannonR]

As a psychiatric nurse I am sure you have good insight to base your statement on. What I find difficult to believe is not that in a psychotic state she might have wanted to go into the tank but that she would have been able to get herself into that tank. I have looked at the pictures and there would be a lot of steps involved. Just accesing the tanks required two ladders and climbing. the lid does not look easily manipulated. The square opening does not look large enough for her to have fit through. If she was found wedged inbetween the tanks than I would agree with the psychotic state, but organizational steps that would be necessary for her to end up where she did makes me question that explanation.

mjak

The opening is plenty big. I believe we earlier found it to be 16x18 inches. She was small framed.

 

[four_seasons]

So from the description if I'm understanding it correctly the red doors lead to the elevator room, with the sounds of machinery being described I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a likely chance the elevator went all the way up to the roof top.

I'd like to know what the layout of the lobby is, when you come in from the street where are the elevators located and more importantly which way are they facing. need more pics! lol

If you look at the first picture in the link I just posted, the blue box is where the tanks and the elevator shaft are, and the 2 green lines at the bottom of the picture is the front door. the 3 red boxes are where the fire escape routes are.

 

[windbags]

Also the possibility of Elisa having a mental breakdown at the time of her death doesn't actually preclude what the cause of death was. She still could have been murdered, or death by accident or misadventure or whatever. She just wouldn't have been fully cognizant while it was happening.

 

[Joe Friday]

I think that could be done. I don't know if someone would have access to one of those. But I could see one of those laying around in that trashy elevator service room on the roof level. If it was an employee, they would probably have access to one of those somewhere in the hotel. I don't know if the handle to one of those could take 115 pounds or not. I have broken one of those handles before--might have been a cheap trashcan, though.

I think she could easily be stuffed in a suitcase, too, and then a rope or something affixed to that. If it were me, I would rather have her in a suitcase or duffel bag.

Hoisting her body in some kind of container with a rope to the top of a water tank sure seems like a lot of work to hide a body to conceal a crime. Since her body was found with no fatal wounds, why not just throw her body off the roof if someone wanted to kill her or if she was already dead and they wanted to cover up the crime? They would have found her lying on the side walk and figured she committed suicide by jumping.

I seriously doubt she was awake or even alive if she was placed in the tank by someone hoisting her up there using a rope. She would have been screaming like crazy when someone tried stuffing her into something like a suitcase while she was awake. Any gag would have left marks (since she was still alive) which would have been seen during her autopsy. Foul play would have been announced by now.

When the toxicology reports come back and there are no drugs found that would have "knocked her out" how will it be explained how the killer would have managed to control Elisa enough to get her into a suitcase undetected by other guests, up to the roof and into the tank?

Maybe she was under hypnosis. This hypnotist simply told Elisa to go to the roof, climb up the tank and to jump in, there she would have drown after losing strength to keep herself a float or eventually from hypothermia.

JMO

 

[four_seasons]

Can one of our smarter posters translate the writings on this pic please?

http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134568477.jpg

or if it's already been done lead me to a link

thanks in advance

the blue box is where the tanks and the elevator shaft are, and the 2 green lines at the bottom of the picture is the front door. the 3 red boxes are where the fire escape routes are.

 

[Socrates]

I'm coming back to the forum when the toxicology tests are out.

The cranial capacity on the forum seems to have deteriorated over the last few days.

I don't think there's any lack of "cranial capacity". There's a dearth of new evidence... I agree, though. I don't have much more to say until the toxicology report comes out and the coroner makes a judgment about the cause of death.

I've just watched the youtube video again for about the 30th time, and I can't make any sense of her behavior if she's in her right mind. But clearly the toxicology report could shed some light on this.

 

[noodled1]

the blue box is where the tanks and the elevator shaft are, and the 2 green lines at the bottom of the picture is the front door. the 3 red boxes are where the fire escape routes are.

Thank you That's what I had assumed but not reading Chinese I didn't want to go on assumptions

 

[MesaVerde]

The fact that she was diagnosed bipolar and on a cocktail of meds is another piece of evidence pointing to a possible deteriorated mental state at the time of her death.

How do we know this? Based on the Tumbler page everybody keeps talking about? How do we know it is her account?

So this isn't a reckless assumption without any proof. There are a few indicators she might have had a mental breakdown of some sort. To fully discount that because it doesn't fit into a preferred hypothesis is a reckless assumption, imo. Its a possibility among possibilities.

What are these indicators? ....So far, going on vacation and four minutes in an elevator with behavior very much open to interpretation?

 

[littlegreycells31]

So now the killer has a pulley in his room?

I have to say that I just find it real hard to believe that she could have possibly been carried, dragged, lifted, or put in a suitcase and taken to the top of the roof and put in a water tank with NO ONE seeing anything???? How about people from other buildings that could see to the roof of the Cecil. Mind you, I live in a small town and have always thought a city like LA was always alive even at night. It's just hard to believe that someone didn't see anything....or maybe they did. I guess there is still a lot we don't know yet. Perplexing to say the least. :dunno:

 

[MesaVerde]

Hoisting her body in some kind of container with a rope to the top of a water tank sure seems like a lot of work to hide a body to conceal a crime.

Hiding a body to conceal a crime usually is hard work. I think that is why more people don't kill people. If it was easy, there are a few people I would have made things square with myself if you know what I mean.

Since her body was found with no fatal wounds, why not just throw her body off the roof if someone wanted to kill her or if she was already dead and they wanted to cover up the crime?

Obviously because she might have had blood or other bodily fluids of the killer on her. He might have thought the water would get rid of a lot of evidence. And it is always better for the criminal if the body is not found. Usually no body, no crime. He might have thought the tank was a great hiding place.

She would have been screaming like crazy when someone tried stuffing her into something like a suitcase while she was awake. Any gag would have left marks (since she was still alive)

Why would you think she would be put in the suitcase alive? What is the source of this assumption?

Foul play would have been announced by now.

Who says? Is law enforcement operating on your time schedule?

 

[mjak]

The opening is plenty big. I believe we earlier found it to be 16x18 inches. She was small framed.

It maybe big enough with effort to squeeze in but It would not have been an ideal entry point.

mjak

 

[MesaVerde]

It maybe big enough with effort to squeeze in but It would not have been an ideal entry point.

mjak

Well, it was the only entry point other than the pipes leading carrying water into and out of it so what is the point of people constantly saying it wasn't big enough.

Her body didn't teleport into the tank or is that the new theory under consideration?

 

[mjak]

Also the possibility of Elisa having a mental breakdown at the time of her death doesn't actually preclude what the cause of death was. She still could have been murdered, or death by accident or misadventure or whatever. She just wouldn't have been fully cognizant while it was happening.

I completely agree with this. The elevator may indicate a psychological imparement. This may have made her more vonerable to being victimized. It can not be concluded in anyway that an altered psychiatric state caued her to take shelter in that tank. It also can not be dismissed.

mjak

 

[anansie]

Can one of our smarter posters translate the writings on this pic please?

http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134568477.jpg

or if it's already been done lead me to a link

thanks in advance

I'll try to do this in words without the graphic.

The green lines pointing to the red rectangles - the green Chinese words at the end of them read "Fire Escape stairs".

The green lines pointing to the short light grey line and the short dark grey line - the green Chinese words at the end of them read "Horizontal beam".

The 2 short green lines directly below the purple "A" indicate "Main Entrance" (with the green Chinese words below them saying this).

The green line pointing to the blue rectangle - the green Chinese words next to it say "Rooftop attic/loft water tank"

 

[anansie]

the blue box is where the tanks and the elevator shaft are, and the 2 green lines at the bottom of the picture is the front door. the 3 red boxes are where the fire escape routes are.

Oh I see four_seasons beat me to it. LOL

This thread moves fast