GUILTY CA - Caren Ramirez & 3 others for imprisonment, torture of 16yo boy, Tracy, 2008

[twinkiesmom]

I agree. It is a very high risk population for child predators. They tend to insert themselves where they are the authority figures. Predators can be male or female.

Have you done the research? Females are very low risk for being child predators. Read any of the Gavin DeBecker books (e.g., Protecting the Gift).

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Have you done the research? Females are very low risk for being child predators. Read any of the Gavin DeBecker books (e.g., Protecting the Gift).

No need. I read WS!! There are plenty of women who harm children. Sometimes their own. Sometimes other people's.

Take the case of the Girl Scout Murders in OK...another unsolved case. There was speculation it was someone from the inside and female. It has not been proven either way as the last DNA testing was ruled "inconclusive".

 

[Gray]

Have you done the research? Females are very low risk for being child predators. Read any of the Gavin DeBecker books (e.g., Protecting the Gift).

Didn't he write "The Gift of Fear?" That was a great book. I read it while I was being stalked by an ex-boyfriend. It helped me handle the situation and now I am always careful when I feel my intuition rising that someone isn't safe or a situation just isn't right... and I don't ignore it, I follow it instead.

Better to look stupid or offend someone and be safe than to "do the right thing" and put your safety in jeopardy.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Leaders are recruited from moms of the school population...are you now painting all Girl Scout leaders as child predators? The moms of the other scouts should have checked out this leader and spent time with her children to get more information. The Girl Scout organization is not to blame here.:sick:

If you don't even have children, why are you judging the due diligence of people who do? We have enough on our plate, thank you very much.

And, yes, I have been inside my Girl Scout leader's house (no dead bodies or chained up teenagers) and perform home visits prior to play dates.

I don't think it matters if the poster has children or not!! GRRR! Attack the post NOT the poster.

 

[twinkiesmom]

That's not just a good idea, it's policy.

People, it's OK to disagree, but discuss the ideas. Do not direct posts at each other personally. Everyone needs to go back and self edit anything that violates TOS, if I have to do it myself you won't like the results. I'm at the office now and getting alerts, I'll be back later to check your work.

I did go back and edit my post but I am highly offended at the attack on the Girl Scouts, which is an entirely reputable organization and did perform due diligence in this case.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Schumacher said the boy was, often times, chained to the coffee table while the family carried on with their daily lives. Then there were times he walked around freely.
Schumacher said they met Caren Ramirez through a mutual friend. They invited her and the boy, who they believed was her son, to live with them.

She says Ramirez instructed them to discipline the boy the same way she did. Schumacher admits she hit the boy in the stomach and arm, and used an aluminum bat to hit him in the knee at least five times. She says her husband Mike hit him less than she did. Toward the end of the summer, Schumacher says the beatings were daily. Wang asked Schumacher what Ramirez did and she said: "She burned him with a bat. She stuck it in the fireplace and pressed it against him ... I knew it was wrong in the back of my head."

But she did it because she was afraid Ramirez would hurt her children. Schumacher says only Ramirez could feed the teenage boy. She, her husband, her four children and Ramirez, would eat at the table while the boy watched in the living room.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=6534730 (Bolded by me)

We can't remove it from the case that Lau/Shumacher was a GS leader since September and that she was not only fully aware this was going on, but actively participating in the abuse up until and during the time she was active with the organization.

 

[youshouldveknown]

I don't have children not because I don't want them. I don't have children because I physically can't have children. But thank you for having me elaborate on the subject.

I still take care of children. I only take care of children of people I have known for quite some time. One is a family friend who has two children that I've been caring for for 12 years, since the 1st's birth. Another is a coworker and my best friend's little girl. They both know me, know my family and know my home well enough to walk in unannounced and do their laundry. I wouldn't take care of anyone else's children. I'm not a babysitter. But I love these kids with my whole heart. Like they were my own. I may not biologically be a parent, but please don't assume that I don't know what it's like.

I'm not attacking Girl Scouts. It makes me sick to think this woman had kindergarten aged children in her care, while abusing and neglecting a child in her own home. That should make anyone sick, parent or not. Just because she passes a background check doesn't mean she's not a child predator. It means she hasn't gotten caught.

 

[youshouldveknown]

So Ramirez was living with the Schumachers? Wasn't Ramirez in hiding from LE? Why couldn't they turn her in, if they were so afraid of her?

Very sad.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

They weren't afraid of this woman, imo. They were into the abuse as much as she was since they continued it without her being there. If they were really scared of her...all they had to do is leave when she was gone or simply call 911.

 

[youshouldveknown]

I agree, SS. Lau is trying to save her butt.

 

[believe09]

I for one am glad Lau cleared everything up-they took in a homeless fugitive and the child she stole from foster care and were forced by the mere presence of this 5 foot tall, 100lb woman to torture a child for a year.

Huh. Wow. Good luck with the defense on that one.

The bigger question is how do we get this poor boy who has been battered and tortured for most of his life to understand that everyone will not treat him that way when everyone has???

Anyone have an address for cards or a gift? I want to send him something simple like a teddy bear.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I don't have children not because I don't want them.
.

I can't have biological children either, but I adopted two after 10 years of marriage without kids.

I would like to keep them locked up until they're 25, but it's not in their best interest. We have to make decisions that balance safety with children having friends and having a full life.

This case is not about scouting. The Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are reputable, highly respectable organizations that take child safety seriously.

Mrs. Schumaker is an anomaly among Girl Scout leaders.

 

[youshouldveknown]

I'm not suggesting we lock our kids up. I'm saying child organizations like GS and BS need to tighten up their rules and criteria for volunteering.

I will agree that more often than not, troop leaders are there to help children and not hurt them, but I disagree that Mrs. Schumaker is an anomaly within the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

[SoobsinMI]

They weren't afraid of this woman, imo. They were into the abuse as much as she was since they continued it without her being there. If they were really scared of her...all they had to do is leave when she was gone or simply call 911.

I agree. It's a crap defense, IMO. Is there ANYTHING such as this woman said, that would make YOU beat on a child or handcuff him or whatever, because the "aunt" told you to? Even if you "knew it was wrong in the back of your mind?" Of course not.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I would like to keep them locked up until they're 25, but it's not in their best interest. We have to make decisions that balance safety with children having friends and having a full life.

This case is not about scouting. The Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are reputable, highly respectable organizations that take child safety seriously.
Mrs. Schumaker is an anomaly among Girl Scout leaders.

Because she was involved with young girls on such a level and now has been charged with horrific crimes upon a child (even if he is 17), it does have to do with scouting and safety issues within their organization. Why didn't someone in 3 months whose daughter is involved in scouting not stop by to visit this woman in her home to check her out if the GS aren't going to be responsible for it?! Obviously, this is a huge warning to parents to do their own research into who is in charge since the organization you entrust your child with doesn't care enough to do their homework.

It doesn't matter if I have ten children, adopt ten more, and live in a shoe if even one of those children are subjected to such a person because someone missed the obvious signs that something was wrong in her household!!

I can't believe that her older children didn't say anything to friends or teachers. If not, why not?! They watched as he was chained in the living room, sleeping on a towel, being beaten, and not eating. He was also given showers outside with a garden hose once a week. The kids had to see this all going on and knew it was wrong. It also raises red flags with the Foster care institution and a host of other agencies.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Because she was involved with young girls on such a level and now has been charged with horrific crimes upon a child (even if he is 17), it does have to do with scouting and safety issues within their organization. Why didn't someone in 3 months whose daughter is involved in scouting not stop by to visit this woman in her home to check her out if the GS aren't going to be responsible for it?! Obviously, this is a huge warning to parents to do their own research into who is in charge since the organization you entrust your child with doesn't care enough to do their homework.

You're Monday morning quarterbacking at the Girl Scouts' expense.

You know what would have happened if someone had randomly dropped in on that family...They would have asked the person to wait outside for a minute, and they they would have bound and gagged that boy and shoved him in a closet for the duration of the visit. And the dirty chained area in the basement would have been attributed to a dog being housebroken.

A random visitor would never have been allowed to see that boy...and the Girl Scouts are not to blame for that.

There is no crystal ball to know what is in people's hearts....They may be kindhearted people who love children or malevolent abusers with a charming facade. The best that could have been done is a background check (which turned up nothing). These folks hid their evil well.

 

[Fairy1]

I for one am glad Lau cleared everything up-they took in a homeless fugitive and the child she stole from foster care and were forced by the mere presence of this 5 foot tall, 100lb woman to torture a child for a year.

Huh. Wow. Good luck with the defense on that one.

The bigger question is how do we get this poor boy who has been battered and tortured for most of his life to understand that everyone will not treat him that way when everyone has???

Anyone have an address for cards or a gift? I want to send him something simple like a teddy bear.

I don't believe Lau "cleared up" anything! And, I have to wonder why the HEL* CPS allowed a minor to be in the custody of a homeless fugitive. Don't people have to prove they have a stable home for these children? GRRRRRR. Lord! How many babies like this boy are being abused? I am not a religious person - at all. But I am praying for this child and all like him who are suffering at the hands of those who are charged with their care and well-being. I will never, ever understand how adults can physically hurt children. Ever.

 

[youshouldveknown]

I think it was sarcasm, Fairy. Not easy to read, I'll admit, but she was being sarcastic.

 

[Fairy1]

Thank you YSHK - I am a HUGE fan of sarcasm, but guess I didn't have any appreciation for it in this case. My heart is breaking for this child because I just cannot figure out how he can be "fixed." I hate these people who hurt him...

 

[MeoW333]

Because she was involved with young girls on such a level and now has been charged with horrific crimes upon a child (even if he is 17), it does have to do with scouting and safety issues within their organization. Why didn't someone in 3 months whose daughter is involved in scouting not stop by to visit this woman in her home to check her out if the GS aren't going to be responsible for it?! Obviously, this is a huge warning to parents to do their own research into who is in charge since the organization you entrust your child with doesn't care enough to do their homework.

It doesn't matter if I have ten children, adopt ten more, and live in a shoe if even one of those children are subjected to such a person because someone missed the obvious signs that something was wrong in her household!!

I can't believe that her older children didn't say anything to friends or teachers. If not, why not?! They watched as he was chained in the living room, sleeping on a towel, being beaten, and not eating. He was also given showers outside with a garden hose once a week. The kids had to see this all going on and knew it was wrong. It also raises red flags with the Foster care institution and a host of other agencies.

It reminds me of another case (no one knows about it as the abusers got a slap on the wrist in FL :furious. The other children didn't report the abuse going on (mainly directed at one child) for years until a family member finally reported it. (the girl went into foster care; has been with a family for years who want to adopt her; yet she doesn't want them to adopt her as she has abandonment issues). The couple still kept custody of their remaining children as well. I'm not sure why other children or relatives don't speak out against abuse of a sibling. Maybe they just don't want to get involved. They realize it's not right; maybe don't want to split the family into sides. I know people related in the undisclosed case i mentioned in FL. IMO i would have been on the phone with authorities ASAP.
These cases that come up of serious abuse usually follow the pattern that a couple has several kids and one or two of the children get the brunt of all the abuse; while the others are allowed to go about "normally" if it can even be considered normal..