CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County) #3

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Reposting for the early birds:

If people want to dig and try to figure out some details on when these two incidents happened that'd be great - unfortunately they're vague and only allude to somewhere in Riverside County.

Given the other possible events in the Lake Elsinore/Wildomar, etc. area I think it's well worth trying to see if we can rule these in or out based on any further media details about them with suspect descriptions, etc.

"Investigators in Riverside County say Gardner similarly wasn't a suspect in last year's disappearance of a 14-year-old girl and an attack on another teen. That's because at the time Gardner was registered in San Diego County. "

I'll update the case timeline and map with any other incidents we need added in the morning - and can edit or link anything else to the things on the case calendar! :)
 
Could "last year's disappearance of a 14-year-old girl" refer to the case I saw a link to, earlier today, of a teenager who was later found safe--a runaway?

And--is this a new report? There was an incident near Bernardo Heights Middle School the day of Chelsea's disappearance, right? "In a new development yesterday, police are investigating a report that two preteen girls were followed by a man in a black car near Bernardo Heights Middle School the day before Chelsea’s disappearance. A law enforcement source said the incident occurred about 3:30 p.m. Feb. 24. "

It comes from: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/05/police-hopeful-that-arrest-will-aid-amber-dubois/
 
per radio interview, relative said he had worked in various construction, and then was told not to work outside of san diego area, also relative stated he had not been working, or working much recently and was also upset about that.

reason I was asking about if he had a vehicle there at time of arrest was as to mud/water on clothes, if he had to go around lake to get away? or had been hiding out? also was it ever released as to how they found him there?
 
TravelingBug said:
Photos show him appearing to be leaning by a white truck, but we have no confirmation that was ::his:: truck and not just the closest place to the restaurant egress for them to have him lean against to cuff.

Given that we know that the black sedan was towed from the family home, I'd guess he was driving something that was NOT the black sedan.
Click to expand...

In the very beginning of this case, I seem to remember mention that JAG owned a white truck. Someone posted a picture of a house (Lake Elsinore ?) and said, it looks like a white truck in the driveway.
 
Now I'm wondering: he owned a gold sedan, owned or had use of a white pickup--so, did he borrow his 'girlfriend's' car as a safety measure? That is, if they're checking him out as they check out all the RSOs in the area, they'll see that he doesn't own a black car, and they'll move on to someone else. (I see that I've completely abandoned any presumption of innocence. Ah well, I'll leave that for the legal system professionals.)
 
I wonder if the 2000 case was his first criminal act. I'd be really interested to know more about him between graduating from high school and his arrest in 2000. There could be older cases that we don't even know about.
 
pugpugpug said:
I wonder if the 2000 case was his first criminal act. I'd be really interested to know more about him between graduating from high school and his arrest in 2000. There could be older cases that we don't even know about.
Click to expand...

Could he have juvenile records that have been sealed?
 
SusanB said:
But what the heck happened to his neck? It like grew a few inches!:crazy:
Click to expand...

Yay! This is my first post, although I have been watching this thread like a hawk.

I just had to chime in here. My dad is one of those guys that has an abnormally large neck (his build is similar to JAG actually-- hate to say it) . He has to have neck extensions for his dress shirts! He has never been on any kind of steroids and his neck has gotten bigger as he has gotten older. My dad was also skinny, scrawny in high school until he started lifting weights after he got beat up in 9th grade.

ETA: I forgot to mention how sad this case has me and how frustrated I am since this is my first post. I have been following cases on here for a while but this one has really gotten to me. Poor Chelsea and I can't even imagine how her parents feel.
 
Wow, the relative on the radio interview said a lot.
One of the things that stuck out to me was when he was asked what would set Gardner off? The relative replied probably his relationship with his mother.

ETA
It's around the 23:07 mark.
 
Sly Scorpio said:
Yay! This is my first post, although I have been watching this thread like a hawk.

I just had to chime in here. My dad is one of those guys that has an abnormally large neck (his build is similar to JAG actually-- hate to say it) . He has to have neck extensions for his dress shirts! He has never been on any kind of steroids and his neck has gotten bigger as he has gotten older. My dad was also skinny, scrawny in high school until he started lifting weights after he got beat up in 9th grade.

ETA: I forgot to mention how sad this case has me and how frustrated I am since this is my first post. I have been following cases on here for a while but this one has really gotten to me. Poor Chelsea and I can't even imagine how her parents feel.
Click to expand...


:Welcome-12-june:
 
I wish we had a "sticky" about the "insanity defense"...from all the research I have done it is very rarely even allowed to be used

hiding the body/crime...shows that the person realizes what they did is wrong and they are trying to protect themselves...therefore the "insanity defense" is off the table

plus now they usually just keep the person in a mental hospital and get them stablized to the point where they are "able" to stand trial like in the Elizabeth Smart case

very very very few of these cases qualify for this..

an example of one that would : that guy who stabbed his seatmate (stranger to him) on the bus in Canada....killed him and then stood there cutting off pieces of his flesh and eating it even while the cops were there, he made no attempt to escape etc

another theoretical example is that an "insane" person kills someone in broad daylight on a busy street and doesn't run away but stands there and boasts "I killed the alien, they were an alien, I saw it in their eyes" and thinks they are going to get a medal for killing an alien

that is the truth...the "insanity defense" has been used more in movies and tv shows I think than in real life..a very few states have looser rules but most don't...

bi-polar is a mental illness...people with bi-polar get convicted all the time

"insanity" is a legal term, not a medical term

I wish we had a sticky that would have even more info on this cause it seems like every thread on there this "insanity" stuff is brought up ...and it usually doesn't apply IMHO

JAG shows premeditation, shows he tried to conceal his crime and preserve his own safety and freedom....not insane
 
Azriell said:
Wow, the relative on the radio interview said a lot.
One of the things that stuck out to me was when he was asked what would set Gardner off? The relative replied probably his relationship with his mother.

ETA
It's around the 23:07 mark.
Click to expand...



Yes , that comment stuck out to me too. The whole interview was very interesting to me. I would have liked to hear more.
 
PKitty said:
I know we've gone over this before, but after studying the photos and map again, I don't see a trail or easy way to get from Hernandez Hideaway to the park. He had wet clothes on. He couldn't see the search of the critical area from there. Why did he go all the way over there? I WANT TO KNOW. :)
Click to expand...

PKitty, as a frequent Mtn Biker and runner on these trails, there is a parking lot right across the street from Hernandez Hideaway where many people use to access the trailhead that is on the most western side of the lake. But you are right in that there is no easy access to get to the side where Chelsea's body was found. That would be about 10-15 miles away and you would have to cross the new pedestrian bridge. I'm with you...I want to know why he hung around.
 
Lewydawg said:
PKitty, as a frequent Mtn Biker and runner on these trails, there is a parking lot right across the street from Hernandez Hideaway where many people use to access the trailhead that is on the most western side of the lake. But you are right in that there is no easy access to get to the side where Chelsea's body was found. That would be about 10-15 miles away and you would have to cross the new pedestrian bridge. I'm with you...I want to know why he hung around.
Click to expand...

Are there windows in that restaurant from which someone could watch and be able to tell in what areas the search was being conducted on that day?
 
TravelingBug said:
Reposting for the early birds:

If people want to dig and try to figure out some details on when these two incidents happened that'd be great - unfortunately they're vague and only allude to somewhere in Riverside County.

Given the other possible events in the Lake Elsinore/Wildomar, etc. area I think it's well worth trying to see if we can rule these in or out based on any further media details about them with suspect descriptions, etc.

"Investigators in Riverside County say Gardner similarly wasn't a suspect in last year's disappearance of a 14-year-old girl and an attack on another teen. That's because at the time Gardner was registered in San Diego County. "

I'll update the case timeline and map with any other incidents we need added in the morning - and can edit or link anything else to the things on the case calendar! :)
Click to expand...


I have read several articles about the missing 14 yo and I think they MIGHT be referring to Amber. I think they just might be written poorly. They are referring first to Amber and then to the abduction attempt in Riverside County and the latter is what the sheriff is referring to. This may be sloppy journalism.
I am looking for a quote from the sheriff to see if I can substantiate this or find infor amtion on the other teen.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_News_Local_W_websuspect.1da2f17.html

http://www.zimbio.com/John+Albert+G...-/John+Albert+Gardner+Possibly+Linked+Several

http://www.examiner.com/x-27102-Cul...involved-in-the-disappearance-of-Amber-Dubois

This one is written more clearly and it is from today:

Authorities are investigating if Gardner is linked to a 16-year-old girl who reported that she ran away after a man asked her for directions then tried to force her into a car at gunpoint on Oct. 28 in Lake Elsinore, the Riverside County Sheriff's Department said.

The suspect was described as a man 30 to 35 years old with a squarish jaw, brown eyes and a blond crew cut. A sketch appears similar to Gardner.

Again, investigators checked out local sex offenders, but not Gardner; he was registered as living in San Diego County. Escondido police say Gardner was registered to live in the north San Diego suburb from January 2008 to January 2010, with some gaps.

"He had not come onto our radar until January," when he notified authorities that he was living in an unincorporated village near Lake Elsinore, said Sgt. Patrick Chavez.

Escondido police are also investigating if Gardner is tied to the disappearance of Amber Dubois, a 14-year-old who vanished a year ago while walking to school and carrying a $200 check to buy a pet lamb.


http://cbs2.com/wireapnewsca/SoCal.man.charged.2.1537049.html
 
TravelingBug said:
I posted something earlier today that said he claimed to be a self-employed electrician, but I believe some searched and did not see him actually registered to be doing so, so who knows! With all his moving and hopping around (and his stalking and abduction attempts) personally I think he just claimed that and didn't really do it!
Click to expand...

John A Gardner is a licensed electrician.
(if this John A Gardner is him)

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...King/?action=view&current=electrician-JAG.jpg
 
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