CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County) #3

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soyesterday said:
This is kinda off topic, but on my local news just now, they said they arrested a registered sex offender named Adam Koch....they said he's 24...they said they arrested him for not registering properly or something like that....he hadn't given them his email address or facebook page or place of employment when he was supposed to and the arrested him for that :)
That was good to hear!!!!
Click to expand...

that name sounds soooo familiar, seems like I was just looking some case that may involved him?
 
KFI is re-running the interview with the relative right now.

http://www.kfi640.com/main.html click listen live, and it should load for you.

Also, in response to an earlier post, part of JAG's parole parameters was to wear a locator ankle bracelet, and it was removed when his parole ended. That may be the time he felt he was able to perpetrate crimes without being caught.

ETA: He was released from prison 9/26/05, and ended parole "three years later", meaning he was off 09/26/08. I suspect we will see the crimes start right about October, 2008.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Zuckerschnecke said:
Here's a couple thoughts that I had and maybe it's been said before. He could have returned to the scene to check on the body and since it seems like it was partially hidden in the water or close to the shore, I could imagine that he tried to push it out into the water.

Also, her underpants were found on or near the trail. He either a) wanted to get caught, b) thought he wouldn't get caught or c) accidently left them there.

It's interesting that he seems to have started up again after his parole was up. Right around same time Amber Dubois disappeared. Did he think his dna was no longer in the database after parole was up?
Click to expand...

From the description of the shallow grave it was estimated at 10 feet from the shore so I doubt he planned to put her in the water. Also, the area was not really accessible by foot as well as rattlesnakes in the area. I think that possibly shoe was lost in struggle...I not sure that they found one or two of her shoes...Im inclined to think two which would make more sense to me.

Maybe someone can check on that fact but I think it would be very easily to lose your shoe in a struggle. I also believe I heard a sports bra was found but no confirmation it was Chelsea's As for the underwear...they could of been torn off we really dont know what the conditon of them was ...maybe they were thrown in the lake which is what I think because law enforcement thought that they had possibly came from somewhere else or drifted to the shore area where they were found. I dont think they were found on a trail.

As for the shoe and pedometer I thought that the first report placed those items near a trail. Another thing to consider is no matter where the sexual assault occurred he would of had to carry Chelsea so I doubt he did so with her naked...would draw too much attention. Another theory could be the shoes were never removed from Chelseas feet during the rape and simply fell off at different times while he transported her and he was not paying attention. The reason I feel he carried her is because it would of been way to easy to get a scent on the ground and would leave drag marks.

I believe someone introduced the word unnatural during Chelsea's search, I dont really remember who or what was saidd but I do recall wondering if he raped her post-mortem. I have a feeling Chelsea fought him with everything she had. Of course I am only speculating and until COD is released we really wont know much more. I found the choice of word that Chelsea's mother used in describing JAG...she said "Creature" what makes me also think that things were done post-mortem. Also if JAG even thought about DNA perhaps he thought he had disposed of it in the lake. What do the rest of you think?
 
Billylee said:
I guess this is JMO, but if that sketch wasn't released to the newspapers back in October of 2009 (when this was the 3rd type such attack in Lake Elsinore,) then THAT was a major screw up! Someone would have recognized him, IMO it looks just like JAG. Maybe it was released earlier and I just haven't read that?
Click to expand...

This is the story from the Press Enterprise in October where the composite was released:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/lakeelsinore/stories/PE_News_Local_S_sattempt29.46d774c.html
 
As for the Dec. 27th Jogger account

Per the Sheriff-

The DNA on her elbow was hers ONLY (no other DNA on elbow at all)

She ID'd him by a photo line-up that was emailed to the Colorado PD BEFORE he was arrested or his picture every surfaced on any media channel
 
Mentalist
2 shoes were found on separate days, but I have not heard any confirmation that they were hers or even a matching pair.

I don't recall hearing anything about a sports bra (but with all the info flying around it is entirely possible I just missed that)
 
According to Mark Klass in this article, JAG probably escaped police detection by moving to, and registering, in different counties. When LE checked sex offenders, JG didn't show up...can he really be that smart? or was it an accident he did this?

SAN DIEGO — When 17-year-old Chelsea King disappeared in a park last week, authorities checked photographs of sex offenders registered in the San Diego area. John Albert Gardner III was not among them.

When a 16-year-old girl was attacked last year in Riverside County, authorities did a similar check of the sex offender registry. Again, Gardner was not among them.

In both investigations, Gardner eluded detection because he was registered as a sex offender in different counties.

As authorities search for Gardner's possible links to other cases, his trail highlights how sex offenders in California manage to avoid suspicion even under a system designed to keep close tabs on the state's most dangerous predators.

"Obviously there's loopholes and he seems to have found them, either by design or by happenstance," said Marc Klaas, who founded Klaaskids Foundation after his 12-year-old daughter Polly was abducted from a slumber party in 1993 and later found slain. ~~~snipped~~~

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/john-gardner-chelsea-king_n_485874.html
 
eyes4crime said:
According to Mark Klass in this article, JAG probably escaped police detection by moving to, and registering, in different counties. When LE checked sex offenders, JG didn't show up...can he really be that smart? or was it an accident he did this?

SAN DIEGO — When 17-year-old Chelsea King disappeared in a park last week, authorities checked photographs of sex offenders registered in the San Diego area. John Albert Gardner III was not among them.

When a 16-year-old girl was attacked last year in Riverside County, authorities did a similar check of the sex offender registry. Again, Gardner was not among them.

In both investigations, Gardner eluded detection because he was registered as a sex offender in different counties.

As authorities search for Gardner's possible links to other cases, his trail highlights how sex offenders in California manage to avoid suspicion even under a system designed to keep close tabs on the state's most dangerous predators.

"Obviously there's loopholes and he seems to have found them, either by design or by happenstance," said Marc Klaas, who founded Klaaskids Foundation after his 12-year-old daughter Polly was abducted from a slumber party in 1993 and later found slain. ~~~snipped~~~

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/john-gardner-chelsea-king_n_485874.html
Click to expand...
amen. the radio interview with relative ( which sadly went poof during the websleuths hiccough/burp/fart) talked about the different cars he drove which match these attempted abductions. This is turning into a scary case indeed
 
Sorry if this has already been posted. If it's here, I missed it.

fran

PS.....the gist of the article is he was stopped in Riverside county and sited for no proof of insurance and improper registration. He didn't appear in court and a warrant should have been issued for his arrest..................but it wasN'T! Ok, I'm not gonna' be angry about this, I guess they have more things to do than chase technical ticket violators around with an arrest warrant.....................but you'd think that his sexual predator status would have raised a red flag. fran



http://theenterprisereport.typepad....y-police-3-weeks-prior-to-murder-of-chel.html

EXCLUSIVE: SEX OFFENDER ACCUSED KILLER JOHN GARDNER STOPPED BY POLICE 3 WEEKS PRIOR TO MURDER OF CHELSEA KING

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<see article at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
I was wondering if any knows the protocol for LE when a witness sketch has been done of a perp. Does it get disseminated within the county?, the state? to share with other LE? Does it, at the very least, get sent to the Parole officers working that particular county? You'd think, since he'd only been off parole for a year, that if his PO was sent that sketch, he'd question it?
 
nursebeeme said:
amen. the radio interview with relative ( which sadly went poof during the websleuths hiccough/burp/fart) talked about the different cars he drove which match these attempted abductions. This is turning into a scary case indeed
Click to expand...

Oh nurse - different cars! Different counties! Different looks! Different MO's - schools, parks, knive, gun... etc.

If all this is intentional on JG's part, he beats Bundy for ingenuity. Wonder if the girls he went for had the same style and color of hair - wonder how JAG chose his victims.

What a sicko!!!!!!
 
Ok Mentalist, but remember you asked! lol

First, I think he confronted her very early on as she was found somewhat close to where the parking lot and her car were. He was probably (maybe) sitting on a bench in wait for anyone and then she pulled up, got her things together (obvious she was going on a run), and then started down the trail. He may have figured she was going to start running and got up and started off before she did. Either way, he subdued her (probably a blow to the head - blunt). That way he could carry her like you normally would carry someone who has passed out - both arms out in front with person cradled. He can carry her that way down a trail so IF detected he can pass it off as she "passed out" or "fainted" or whatever (common for a runner to do).

He carried her to where they found her. You're right about the shoes - probably falling off. Don't know if she ever came to (I, for one. hope she never did) - if she did - she fought - hence possibly the other shoe.

Where she was found was out of sight, hard to see. The entire crime was commited there. We haven't seen another other "site" being roped off and disected, which would lead to believe two scenes (one where he killed her and the other being the burial site). Nope, we've have seen and heard of only one site.

Your post-mortem comment caught me because that has come up in discussions I have with "real life" people - lol. I, personally, don't think so. But, he likes to beat. We saw that in the docs of his first crime - beat that poor lil 13 yr old about the head horribly. He beats and rapes at the same time so its possible that in the commission of the whole event he could have killed his victim and the rape happens post-mortem.

I think he's escalated as far as weapons. I think there is a knife. I think that's why we're not being told COD - kinda obvious if COD is by stabbing or a slit throat. I think the knife they have has other, "older" DNA on it (maybe Amber's).

This one subhuman hunk of flesh is real, real bad. He "blacks" out during his crimes and does horrendous, horriffic things.

How many victims he really has - we will probably never know.

And that's what I think (and it really hurts to think it).
 
Listening on the radio
http://www.kfi640.com/main.html

relative heard that the first victim at 13 was flirting with him, ditched school and lied about attack not to get in trouble.
He pleaded guilty. Family never heard about psychiatrist.
Mother knew everything.....she had court transcript.
Now relative is looking at hind sight.
impulsive outburts of violence.
babysitting and attacked a cousin, beyond normal.
6-7 yrs old at time.
iintelligent but troubled, immature.
Relative thinks there are other victims out there.
pontiac gold partial plate seen from man in park
impound lot crashed a month ago and towed away
black sedan girl friend honda body damage missing bumper
current gf car.
relative doesn't want to talk about sons, or X girlfriend and her children.
Lots of warning signs.
Job and relationship problems.
Electrical/construction probabtion said he couldn't leave county til last summer. or 9-08
Moved in Feb 20, 2010 with mom and step father.
No one reported it.
Feb 17th relative found out about JG addy.
Mother is denial and chose not to believe any of this.
The relative hasn't talked to mom since the 17th.
He could be the life of the party or violent.
Childhood...........reason? no trama, but trouble in school.
Father is dead, out of state. Grew up without a father.
Step father image in Running Springs.
Not this step-father.
Relative hopes Amber is not a victim, but he believes the evidence DNA will prove
(interviewed by FBI)
Family calls him Johnny
Gma house broken into house empty and Le was in it.
sherrif,county FBI all at scene, relative had no idea.
then turned to talk about JG.......he allowed house to be searched.
At the end of the interview he was told of murder.
Relative gave them info on cars etc.
Relative was in shock, he didn't even know about Chelsea disappearance.
There is certain stuff he cannot talk about FBI asked.
Who could talk to JG and ask about where is Amber.
JG set him off is relationship with JG mom.
He called sherrif on JG on Feb 17th.......JG was not allowed to be there.
JG very threatening, loud etc.
Relative says he is an old man and Gma is in hospital very ill.
JG went to hospital to see gma.
 
dearlydepartedx said:
has anyone heard anything more about the 'bag of hair' found in Kit Karson Park??
Click to expand...


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/05/kit-carson-park-amber-dubois-search/?imw=Y

>>>snip

...

...Escondido police interviewed the three girls, one age 9 and two 11, and brought them to the park Thursday night, where they pointed out the bag, which Carter described as plastic and shredded.

He said no hair was found in it, but there are other bags and “items of interest” on the ground in the area, and those are being searched. Carter said investigators expect to be at the site until dark, when it will be secured overnight...

<<<...>>>

...“There is no reason to believe this is related to the Amber Dubois case, but we are looking into it,” Carter said....


(article contiues with photos)

<<<snip
 
Billylee said:
that name sounds soooo familiar, seems like I was just looking some case that may involved him?
Click to expand...

Really?? This is in NH. You think you've heard of him before? I'm gonna have to look him up and see. I know it's not related to Chelsea at all (sorry for the off topic)....
 
Hair would likely not still be in a bag because a bird or animal would probably use it for nest building, etc., but local news is definitely saying at the top of the hour the last few hours that it was due to believe connections to the Amber Dubois case (although this article is sort of downplaying that.

But this is all thanks to all of the publicity from Chelsea's case, and we'll likely see more leads and searches in other cases due to the publicity and JAG's photos being so publicized now!

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...igators-Search-Kit-Carson-Park--86646937.html

<snip>

The children made the discovery nine months ago and recalled it in light of the Chelsea King story. One of the children's parents immediately called police.

Thursday night, police secured an area near a pond in a wooded section of the park along a waterway and waited for daylight to further investigate the scene.

Escondido police called in a huge showing of search and rescue personnel including the sheriff's underwater search and recovery team. They found a sack in the southern reaches of the park, but said there was nothing inside.

"From what we understand, they don't feel it's going to be a body of any type. Because if it was, being this close to a snack shack where everybody has a party every weekend, someone would've noticed it by now," said Amber's father Maurice Luque.

A lot of other bags were found in the area, indicating transient camping. As long as all the resources were deployed -- boats, divers, search and rescue volunteers -- Escondido police said they would widen the search to see if anything useful turns up.

<snip>

Police said they were planning to start canvassing the neighborhood again to search for leads in the case.
 
passionflower said:
Listening on the radio
http://www.kfi640.com/main.html

relative heard that the first victim at 13 was flirting with him, ditched school and lied about attack not to get in trouble.
He pleaded guilty. Family never heard about psychiatrist.
Mother knew everything.....she had court transcript.
Now relative is looking at hind sight.
impulsive outburts of violence.
babysitting and attacked a cousin, beyond normal.
6-7 yrs old at time.
iintelligent but troubled, immature.
Relative thinks there are other victims out there.
pontiac gold partial plate seen from man in park
impound lot crashed a month ago and towed away
black sedan girl friend honda body damage missing bumper
current gf car.
relative doesn't want to talk about sons, or X girlfriend and her children.
Lots of warning signs.
Job and relationship problems.
Electrical/construction probabtion said he couldn't leave county til last summer. or 9-08
Moved in Feb 20, 2010 with mom and step father.
No one reported it.
Feb 17th relative found out about JG addy.
Mother is denial and chose not to believe any of this.
The relative hasn't talked to mom since the 17th.
He could be the life of the party or violent.
Childhood...........reason? no trama, but trouble in school.
Father is dead, out of state. Grew up without a father.
Step father image in Running Springs.
Not this step-father.
Relative hopes Amber is not a victim, but he believes the evidence DNA will prove
(interviewed by FBI)
Family calls him Johnny
Gma house broken into house empty and Le was in it.
sherrif,county FBI all at scene, relative had no idea.
then turned to talk about JG.......he allowed house to be searched.
At the end of the interview he was told of murder.
Relative gave them info on cars etc.
Relative was in shock, he didn't even know about Chelsea disappearance.
There is certain stuff he cannot talk about FBI asked.
Who could talk to JG and ask about where is Amber.
JG set him off is relationship with JG mom.
He called sherrif on JG on Feb 17th.......JG was not allowed to be there.
JG very threatening, loud etc.
Relative says he is an old man and Gma is in hospital very ill.
JG went to hospital to see gma.
Click to expand...


here is the on demand podcast:

http://www.kfiam640.com/mediaplayer...demand&item=17950828&feed_name=JohnandKen.xml
 
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