Identified! CA - Dana Point, WhtFem 23UFCA, 18-23, cliff jump, Sep'87 - Holly Glynn

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The Namus page for the UID lists the local contact person as Scott Hayes with the Orange County Coroner's Office, with an email address and telephone number.

does anyone feel comfortable in giving him a call to ask about the clothing (or anything else for that matter)? since not one sleuther here could find anything at all about the clothing manufacturer, it is possible someone entered the data into the system incorrectly. would not be the first time a typo throws people off.
 
I had to check my e-mail and look back because I didn’t remember Yahoo e-mailing me to tell me that they pulled my question. I rechecked and they never did, so I am going to revise it a little (because the only response that I got before was someone with a mail order website) ask again because I really don’t think that I was violating their community guidelines. The new question is at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110419145300AAYksha

Just giving you a heads up in case you haven't already seen but your question has been deleted again. I'm confused as to why!
 
Just giving you a heads up in case you haven't already seen but your question has been deleted again. I'm confused as to why!

I know. The only reason why [that I can think of] is maybe if I question doesn't get responses after a certain amount of time they delete them.
 
I was wondering if the woman from Dana Point could be Tavia Elizabeth Bailey from Florida?

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/5815/0/
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bailey_tavia.html

Tavia has strawberry blonde hair and brown eyes, she is 5'3" tall. Jane Doe was measured to be 5'4". I know there is a big distance between Florida and California, but according to the Charley Project website, she had run away in the past, one time traveling as far as New York City. In my opinion, she could have traveled to California after she left Florida.

bailey_tavia.jpg
 
I would think that Tavia Bailey isn't a match. My personal reasons for thinking this way are as follows:

Tavia has both of her ears pierced multiple times. Jane Doe has two piercings in her left ear, but only one in her right.

According to NamUs, Tavia has a scar on the left side of her lip. The Charley Project states that she also has a scar at her hairline that extends to her right eyebrow. Jane Doe doesn't exhibit either of those scars.

Finally, Tavia doesn't appear to have freckles. Freckles don't appear in either her main picture or the age progression, nor are they mentioned in anything I've seen relating to her case. Freckles can be covered up, so this alone wouldn't be an insurmountable problem, but it doesn't help when she's also missing piercings and scars.

That said, I'm glad to see anyone presenting new possibilities in this case. Thank you, Ambercat.
 
I would think that Tavia Bailey isn't a match. My personal reasons for thinking this way are as follows:

Tavia has both of her ears pierced multiple times. Jane Doe has two piercings in her left ear, but only one in her right.

According to NamUs, Tavia has a scar on the left side of her lip. The Charley Project states that she also has a scar at her hairline that extends to her right eyebrow. Jane Doe doesn't exhibit either of those scars.

Finally, Tavia doesn't appear to have freckles. Freckles don't appear in either her main picture or the age progression, nor are they mentioned in anything I've seen relating to her case. Freckles can be covered up, so this alone wouldn't be an insurmountable problem, but it doesn't help when she's also missing piercings and scars.

That said, I'm glad to see anyone presenting new possibilities in this case. Thank you, Ambercat.

I thought that she was a long shot, because of the distance, if nothing else. As far as Tavia's scars go, I was not sure if they might be mistaken for injuries sustained in the fall (I think that Jane Doe lost teeth in the fall and sustained other injuries).
 
I could be completely and utterly wrong, but I'm under the assumption that her face and head were in at least fairly good condition when she was found. We at least know that she was in good enough shape for acne scarring to show up in the artist's sketch. If those made it into the sketch, more pronounced facial scarring should have shown up.

Furthermore, we know that she was not immediately killed or even completely incapacitated by the fall. She was conscious and aware of her surroundings at least long enough to create a sand angel after she'd landed. If she suffered a major head injury, that shouldn't be the case.
 
KELLY MORRISSEY

DOB: Aug 22, 1968
Sex: Female
Missing Date: Jun 12, 1984
Race: White
Height: 5'4" (163 cm)
Weight: 130 lbs (59 kg)
Hair Color: Blonde
Eye Color: Brown
Missing From: LYNBROOK, NY

Circumstances: She was returning home at approximately 10:00 p.m., and was last seen at the corner of Earl Avenue and Merrick Road in Lynbrook. She was wearing a pink sleeveless sweatshirt, blue jeans, white sneakers and a gold chain with a charm on it. She also has pierced ears.

Links:

http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6427/0/
 

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Also if this UID is Kelly Morrissey then she would have committed suicide a few Months after the last two of the three men on trial for the murder of kelly's friend 16-year-old Theresa Fusco, were convicted. Theresa Fusco disappeared six months after Kelly Morrissey, Fusco was later located deceased, a victim of homicide

20. John Restivo - Nassau County
Convicted, 1987 of murder and rape in a 1984 incident, sentenced to 33 1/3 years to life
Served 16 years, Exonerated 2005

http://www.nyadp.org/content/new-yorks-exonerees
 
Personally, I don't see much going for the Kelly Morrissey theory. The idea that she'd run away to California doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Here is why:

Assuming she ran away, Morrissey skipped out one day before she could have collected her last paycheck, and she didn't take any clothing, money, or personal belongings. While she knew John Kogut and Dennis Halstead, two of the men initially convicted of murdering Morrissey's friend, they were quite thoroughly exonerated by DNA and massive mistakes law enforcement made in evaluating hair follicle evidence. There's no reason to suspect that she would've had to run from Kogut or Halstead, so why would she disappear in such a hurry? Furthermore, if she ran away for an unrelated reason, why would she disappear to a place where she had no apparent support system?

My feeling is that the Morrissey, Theresa Fusco, and Jacqueline Martarella cases are probably connected, and the unknown rapist from the Fusco case is the likely perpetrator in all three.

I don't see much physical resemblance either, but I'm not going to attempt evaluating that because of the unfortunately very low quality of Morrissey's picture.

Addendum: Deeds, I hope you don't feel as though I'm overly dismissive. Truthfully, I think any honest contribution is a good one; however, I have the tendency to be exceedingly blunt in expressing my views. When presented with possibilities like this, I have a tendency to immediately jump into playing a sort of devil's advocate. If you see something here that I don't, you're more than welcome to contradict me. In fact, I'd applaud it if you would.
 
I don't so much think she just ran away as much as I believe Kelly was most likely attacked by the same Person(s) that attacked Theresa Fusco, and Jacqueline Martarella and the other victims that survived, what if they didn't kill her...

"while freely admitting his role in the rape and strangulation of Theresa Fusco. After she was raped, he said, the girl had threatened to inform police, whereupon one of *****'s associates handed him a rope, with instructions to "Do what you gotta do." On May 9, 1985, authorities went public with their theory that a gang of twelve associates was linked with three known murders and at least four rapes in which the victims had survived."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22276083/The-Encyclopedia-Of-Unsolved-Crimes

I think there is a good possibility that she would have been feeling ashamed or being threatened so she stayed away, the UID description reads that she had been pregnant at some point, possibly from the attack or after. If she was selling herself it would explain how she was getting the money to live on her own without using her SIN.

I would be assuming but its a good guess to say that she would have been a little depressed after going through so much trauma. Maybe she decided after hearing that the men who killed her friend were convicted that she took a trip to CA saw what she wanted to see and then killed herself.

Also the UID had no identification or no person items on her person at the time of her death which would fit with Kelly.

---------

Ada Wong,

Where I do believe that the "devil's advocate" viewpoint is much need, I also believe being too overly dismissive with cases that had so much man power and investigation involved and there is still no form of a conclusion things can get over looked, thats why the view point of "out of the box" is needed, Even if the view point is not always correct its now one angle to be ruled out and with the more angles ruled out the closer the investigation gets in finding the right one.

Also if your interested, go to Charley Project page for Kelly Morrissey there are two more low quality photos of her, but there really is not that much to compare her to.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/morrissey_kelly.html
 
If Kogut or his alleged accomplices are guilty in any of these three crimes, I will eat my hat. His confession came after three polygraph tests and eighteen hours of interrogation, and it contained no information that wasn't previously known to law enforcement. Furthermore, the confession wasn't even written by Kogut. The interrogating officer wrote out the confession and had Kogut sign it. The day afterward, Kogut would go on to repeat that confession on videotape.

During this time, there were bizarre and unsubstantiated allegations that Kogut and his supposed accomplices were involved in a Satanic cult that included at least twelve individuals. Swabs of DNA taken from the vagina of Theresa Fusco repeatedly did not match Kogut, Halstead, or Restivo. The hairs allegedly found in Restivo's van were determined to be hairs taken from Fusco's autopsy, and they were somehow combined with whatever hairs may have been taken from Restivo's van. Detective Nicholas Petraco, who had testified for the state in the original trial, alleged that the hair issue happened through extreme negligence or misconduct on the part of the police investigating the case.

If I am understanding this properly, you are nonetheless presenting the possibility that Kogut and/or Halstead and Restivo are somehow still guilty of the Fusco and Martarella murders, but they let Kelly Morrissey survive for some reason. Perhaps she promised to not report the crime against her. After this, Morrissey was so ashamed of being raped that she ran away without taking any money, clothing, or other belongings. She also became pregnant, may have been begun working as a prostitute, and ended up in California where she killed herself three years later. Am I understanding you correctly?

I applaud thinking outside of the box, but this is WAY out of the box. It requires a very long series of evidentially unsupported events to happen, and some of those events are actually directly opposed by the evidence.
 
Would you please send me the links for your information, I would like to read more into the case and its apparent that you have a lot of info.
 
Some things I find questionable;

In late March 1985, Kogut was brought to police headquarters for a polygraph examination. After three polygraphs, a detective analyzed Kogut’s “polygraph charts” and determined that Kogut was lying when he denied involvement in the victim’s murder. Multiple officers proceeded to interrogate Kogut for 12 hours

Could the root banding hair come from someone visiting the body within the month before it was found then bring it back into the van with them??

Is there any evidence that the autopsy hair ever came in contact with the hair samples from the van? just because they were all in the same lab means nothing DNA from all kinds of cases were in the lab... did they all have the hair in them???

The state presented the testimony of multiple witnesses who alleged that they had heard Restivo and Halstead make incriminating statements.

DNA (18 yr old DNA from a body that was exposed to the elements for a month) it doesn't prove that they didn't wear a condom it just proved that someone else involved didn't.
 
I read The Innocence Project's page on the case: Profile: John Kogut

I also searched out several news articles from the time frame relating to the cases; read the Charley Project, Doe Network, and NamUs pages on Morrissey; and I read the source you provided from Newton's Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes. Newton, who you quoted and used as a source, goes into some detail about the Satanic cult angle. He also seems to suggest that he believes Morrissey was killed by the same individual or individuals that murdered Fusco and Martarella. Since the book was written, Kogut's alleged accomplices have been exonerated, Kogut was retried, and Kogut was found innocent of the Fusco murder.

There's a more recent editorial on Morrissey's disappearance here: The Search for Kelly Morrissey Continues 26 Years Later

An interesting quote is found on page four: "What differed with Kelly’s story was that she left home without picking up a paycheck at her job, and without any fresh clothes. Her clothes were laid out on her bed for the next day, indicating she had no intentions of running away."

As for your evidence:

In late March 1985, Kogut was brought to police headquarters for a polygraph examination. After three polygraphs, a detective analyzed Kogut’s “polygraph charts” and determined that Kogut was lying when he denied involvement in the victim’s murder.

I highly encourage you to research the effectiveness of the polygraph test. Namely, in the United States and many other countries throughout the world, polygraph results are not generally admissible evidence in court. There are good reasons why this is the case.

In 2003, the National Academy of Sciences released a report titled The Polygraph and Lie Detection. It can be read here: The Polygraph and Lie Detection Their conclusions were decidedly unfavorable to the polygraph as a method of lie detection. I quote (emphasis added):

"Almost a century of research in scientific psychology and physiology provides little basis for the expectation that a polygraph test could have extremely high accuracy. Although psychological states often associated with deception (e.g., fear of being judged deceptive) do tend to affect the physiological responses that the polygraph measures, these same states can arise in the absence of deception. Moreover, many other psychological and physiological factors (e.g., anxiety about being tested) also affect those responses. Such phenomena make polygraph testing intrinsically susceptible to producing erroneous results."

Could the root banding hair come from someone visiting the body within the month before it was found then bring it back into the van with them??

Sure, it could; however, you'll have to explain why they'd collect their murdered victim's body, put it in their van, and then dump it again. You'd also have to explain why this is more feasible than the more succinct idea that law enforcement screwed up in handling forensic evidence.

Is there any evidence that the autopsy hair ever came in contact with the hair samples from the van? just because they were all in the same lab means nothing DNA from all kinds of cases were in the lab... did they all have the hair in them???

The autopsy hair was identical or nearly identical to the hair that was allegedly discovered in the van. If they didn't come in contact with the hair samples from the van, it would require something along the lines of your idea that Kogut and company had picked up the body after Fusco had been dead for many hours, and they then placed the body in their van for some undetermined reason.

From The Innocence Project (emphasis added):

"Det. Petraco concluded, based on 20 years of research and expertise, that the hairs displayed “post-mortem root banding,” a hallmark of decomposition that only occurs while hairs are attached to a corpse that has been dead for at least 8 hours, if not days or weeks. The banding on these hairs was suspiciously similar to those found on dozens of hairs taken from the autopsy that had been in unsealed envelopes in a Police Department laboratory for months. Because the victim was only alleged to have been in the van for a few minutes after death, he concluded, the hairs could not have been shed during that time, and were instead autopsy hairs that were commingled with others from the van."

I do not know if Fusco's hairs might have contaminated any other pieces of biological evidence that were being investigated at the time. To my knowledge, the answer to this question has never been reported.

The state presented the testimony of multiple witnesses who alleged that they had heard Restivo and Halstead make incriminating statements.

Eyewitness, or ear-witness in this case, testimony often has its own problems with reliability. What were the incriminating statements? Who heard them? How many people heard them and can testify that the statements were actually made? Could the statements have reasonably been misinterpreted? These are all questions that need answers before the reliability of any witness' testimony can be judged.

DNA (18 yr old DNA from a body that was exposed to the elements for a month) it doesn't prove that they didn't wear a condom it just proved that someone else involved didn't.

The age of the DNA isn't really relevant in this case. Several rounds of DNA testing were undertaken on vaginal slides, and later DNA testing was undertaken on an intact vaginal swab. In all tests, the DNA matched the same single unknown male. If there had been problems with the DNA samples, they wouldn't have matched. Not all of the DNA would have been damaged identically.

I'm also not sure exactly what you're suggesting in your reference to condoms. Are you saying that the three men who were arrested wore condoms; however, an unknown fourth rapist and murderer didn't wear one? Do you mean to say that Fusco had sexual intercourse with someone else shortly before she was murdered? If the latter, this was actually argued in court during Kogut's second trial. Fusco was originally argued to be a virgin prior to her rape and murder, and the argument did not go over well.

Is John Kogut a saintly man? No, and he's actually been in jail on burglary charges since his release from prison. Prior to his arrest, he had also dated and apparently drank alcohol with underage girls. There were rumors that he had pushed Kelly Morrissey around, and he was alleged to have a fairly short temper. It's safe to say that he is not and was not a good man, but that only means that he's a jerk. It does not mean or even remotely indicate that he and his friends went around raping and/or murdering teenage girls.

Could a scenario be invented in which the men are guilty of the crimes? Yes. Would any follower of Occam's razor find this persuading? I doubt it. You're currently holding an enormous burden of proof.
 
I noticed on findthemissing.org, a 28 year old woman, named Theresa Burns, who was believed to have committed suicide on September 11, 1987 yet whose body was never found.
It is believed that Theresa Burns jumped off the Mackinac Bridge. Her body has not been recovered.
There isn't a photo, but her description is similar to the woman in Dana Point. I'll try to find a photo somewhere else.
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/9626/0/
Also, what about Julie Grubaugh? I see some similarities between her and Jane Doe, but it is really hard to tell because she is wearing such heavy glasses in the photo of her.
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/3869/12/
4941

There is also Elaine Allenbach (age 21) who went missing on March 01, 1986. findthemissing.org does not have a photo of her, yet it does say that she has
faint acne scars, both cheeks
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/4528/
 
Thank you, Ambercat.

I found a few sources for pictures of Elaine Allenbach:

http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/missingsister/index.html - This is a site apparently run by Allenbach's sister. She has uploaded various pictures, but they're all very small.

http://www.missingpeople.net/elaine.htm - This page has some larger photos of Allenbach, and it states that she was known to be a sex worker.

The Doe Network also has a page on her, but it uses the same pictures and sources that are available on the two sites listed above.

My initial reactions are that Allenbach has a thinner face and a higher forehead than I'd expect based on the sketch, and her natural hair color seems to be quite a bit darker than anything I'd describe as strawberry blonde. She also seems to have worn makeup and jewelry, and to have made a point of dressing well. Obviously, I can't say how much of her appearance was due to her own tastes and how much was due to her work. If it was a personal choice, it seems incongruent with ending up in California with only $17, second hand clothing, and a stolen purse. Still, anyone else's input is appreciated.

Theresa Burns is certainly an interesting idea, and I'd never heard of the case before. I found out why when I started searching for information and could only turn up one thing pertaining to her. She received a one paragraph mention in a book, Mackinac Bridge: A 50-year Chronicle, 1957-2007. It states:

"Theresa Lu Burns, 28, of Indian River, Mich. abandoned her car late at night and was not found despite extensive searches of the area. Wind and water conditions changed frequently in the days, weeks and years that followed, but Burns' body was not recovered."

This would suggest, at least by my reading, that she abandoned her vehicle on the bridge before apparently deciding to jump from it. Coincidentally, a forty year-old man leaped to his death from the bridge only three days earlier. It was covered in a widely syndicated Associated Press article, and it's possible that Burns decided to use the bridge because of that.

Another man had jumped in September (a cursed month or what?) of 1985, and the bridge appears to have been used as a suicide spot since at least the mid-1970s.

I'd say it's 99% likely that Burns used the Mackinac Bridge to commit suicide; however, if there is a picture or other information about her available, I want to see it. Double checking never hurts.

Julie Grubaugh interests me the most, but it seems like information on her is almost as difficult to find as information about Theresa Burns. Grubaugh has dental information available, so it should be easy to make a comparison if she is ever submitted as a possible match.
 
Thank you, Ambercat.

I found a few sources for pictures of Elaine Allenbach:

http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/missingsister/index.html - This is a site apparently run by Allenbach's sister. She has uploaded various pictures, but they're all very small.

http://www.missingpeople.net/elaine.htm - This page has some larger photos of Allenbach, and it states that she was known to be a sex worker.

The Doe Network also has a page on her, but it uses the same pictures and sources that are available on the two sites listed above.

My initial reactions are that Allenbach has a thinner face and a higher forehead than I'd expect based on the sketch, and her natural hair color seems to be quite a bit darker than anything I'd describe as strawberry blonde. She also seems to have worn makeup and jewelry, and to have made a point of dressing well. Obviously, I can't say how much of her appearance was due to her own tastes and how much was due to her work. If it was a personal choice, it seems incongruent with ending up in California with only $17, second hand clothing, and a stolen purse. Still, anyone else's input is appreciated.

Theresa Burns is certainly an interesting idea, and I'd never heard of the case before. I found out why when I started searching for information and could only turn up one thing pertaining to her. She received a one paragraph mention in a book, Mackinac Bridge: A 50-year Chronicle, 1957-2007. It states:

"Theresa Lu Burns, 28, of Indian River, Mich. abandoned her car late at night and was not found despite extensive searches of the area. Wind and water conditions changed frequently in the days, weeks and years that followed, but Burns' body was not recovered."

This would suggest, at least by my reading, that she abandoned her vehicle on the bridge before apparently deciding to jump from it. Coincidentally, a forty year-old man leaped to his death from the bridge only three days earlier. It was covered in a widely syndicated Associated Press article, and it's possible that Burns decided to use the bridge because of that.

Another man had jumped in September (a cursed month or what?) of 1985, and the bridge appears to have been used as a suicide spot since at least the mid-1970s.

I'd say it's 99% likely that Burns used the Mackinac Bridge to commit suicide; however, if there is a picture or other information about her available, I want to see it. Double checking never hurts.

Julie Grubaugh interests me the most, but it seems like information on her is almost as difficult to find as information about Theresa Burns. Grubaugh has dental information available, so it should be easy to make a comparison if she is ever submitted as a possible match.

Thanks for the information about the Mackinac Bridge and links to the photos of Elaine Allenbach. I don't think that Ms. Allanbach is the woman from Dana Point now that I saw her photo. I am going to e-mail the Orange County Coroner and ask if Julie Grubaugh could be the woman in Dana Point. I will keep you posted what they say.
 
A while back, I e-mailed the Orange County Coroner asking if the unknown woman from Dana Point could possibly be Julie Grubaugh, who went missing from Arizona in November 1986. Recently, I received this response from them --
Kathryn,

I cannot find record if we responded to you or not. I rechecked the case against this MP and there is NO match. Dentals are quite different.

Allison O’Neal
Supervising Deputy Coroner
Orange County Coroner
 
Hello you all,

I noted a discrepancy throughout the various accounts of JD's last moments.

- September 21, 1987 issue of the Los Angeles Times (as kindly summarized by Ada Wong) :
JD asks the hotel desk clerk at the Hampton Inn in Mission Viejo whether there are “tall buildings” in the area.

- http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/une_jane_doe.htm:
JD asks the hotel desk clerk at the Hampton Inn in Mission Viejo whether there are “high-end buildings” in the area.

English is not my first language, so please excuse me if I got this wrong. Doesn’t “high-end” mean “expensive”?

Because this could explain why she later placed a taxi call to the Ritz-Hilton hotel, which, as previously mentioned in this thread, is not a tall hotel and therefore “would not be a suitable location to attempt a suicide via jumping” (Sorry... I don't know how to make quotes).

If the “high-end” account is the correct one (from what we know, this source states an incorrect height, so it might be incorrect on this fact too), this could mean (among other things) that:
- she didn’t intend to commit suicide at that point
- OR she did intend to commit suicide (later on) but wanted to do something at the hotel first.

As many of you have noted, it is surprising that she would want to go to such an expensive hotel in the first place, having so little money on her. Could it be that she wanted to meet someone? This would mean that JD knows this person stays at an expensive hotel in the area and that JD does not know it is the Carlton-Ritz since she asked the desk clerk at the Hampton Inn about “high-end” buildings. Do we know if her picture was circulated in the Carlton-Ritz hotel?

I agree with the idea previously mentioned on this thread that she could even not have wanted to go there in the first place. Why would she have asked about this hotel then?
When you call a cab in the US, do you need to tell them when you place the call where you want to go? Because maybe she asked about directions for this hotel, in order to avoid telling the cab “drive me anywhere” or “drive me near a cliff”?

Thank you all for keeping this case alive. It is through this JD that I discovered WS :).
 

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