CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

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Its money-where are they gonna be commited? Hey give me places I am there until stabilzed!

No vacancy signs are everywhere........the general notion of commitment...................... requires a place to do so

unless we want to heap human beings into a space on top of each other tell us in the field where is all this commimet space

, hotels are sold out

where do we place them until they are more stable?

where is it I wanna know ! I wish someone here would share their story ( a lot more meaningful than me ) explain how you tried and tried and tried to get a loved one in a safe place for a length of time that is authtically helpfull

where are these places Tell me pls!!!

I can't say I've had to commit someone to mental health care, but I myself had to be committed back in 2006. It took a family member taking me to the emergency room, and my being completely honest about why I tried to commit suicide.

That's the downside to mental health. If the patient is not agreeable to treatment it can't be forced without a court order for a 5150. The same rights that protect the mentally ill being housed unnecessarily are the same rights that prevent anyone from just throwing people in an institution. It's an unfortunate side effect of mental health rights.

Family members have to be willing to go that extra mile through the courts to make a three day hold even happen.
 
I am only up to 11th grade in his diary. When did this occur? Did they take him to Morocco past 11th grade?

Ugh! Found it ... he was 17yo during the trip to Morocco. And at 18 yo there is a comment about the step-mothers frostiness when she returned and ER's banishment from the father's house as a result.
 
IIRC, ER was young, maybe 5ish, when his parents separated/divorced.

TY!
If you look at this link for the real house wives show and read her bio almost at the bottom. This show was started 2013 she says she met the love of her life 15 yrs ago her FIRST day in the USA, I have a feeling they met when he was roaming the globe filming his God movie that ER hated and called his father a failure for investing his own money in. She also says 1 child and he is Funny, bubbly and sassy, everything ER is not. She does not list her step son at all. I wonder if she threw it in his face that her son was going to be all that ER wanted to be (according to ER)or if reading what she wrote is what led to his jealousy and rage where he wanted to kill the only person who did worship him .
 
TY!
I wonder if she threw it in his face that her son was going to be all that ER wanted to be and if reading what she wrote is what led to his jealousy and rage where he wanted to kill the only person who did worship him .

RSBM -- I don't think that was it. He was seething with rage over the very idea that his younger brother would likely do better in life and with the ladies than ER would. He claimed his stepmother pointed this out to him directly (not sure I believe that part).

He said it a few times, IIRC. He couldn't allow his younger brother to do better than him. How he was going to put a stop to that.

Of course, these are the rantings are a very delusional mind. We'll never know the true reason.
 
Does anyone remember what age he was when his parents separated? TIA. I can not go back and read that horror again !

I know what you mean~~there have been things others have brought up and I don't remember but dont/can't go back. :blushing::seeya:
 
Guns, no guns, therapists, no therapists, divorce, no divorce, video games, no video games sex, no sex....those are all just environmental variables that wouldn't have really made a difference in the storm of Elliot Rodger. Plenty of people are exposed/unexposed to all of the above, and don't ever kill anyone. He was a psychotic sociopath. I don't blame his parents, his therapists, the government, etc. The blame lies on Elliot Rodger. Period.

Dude would have been disappointed if he had of had sex. He had made it into some grandiose experience in his sick mind, and would have been even further enraged when he was an "in, out, and done" typical first experience instead of this marathon "alpha male" crap he envisioned in his head.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

I agree. If he had gotten what he thought he wanted (money, adoration, respect, sex with tall, hot blondes), he would have still been a mental health nightmare. He might not have slaughtered anyone, but he wouldn't have been any gift to humanity either. Nothing anyone could have done or given this guy would have changed his personality long-term IMO. And as someone said earlier, whatever women he would've managed to have a relationship with likely faced a horrible time with him.
 
I agree with most of your post. BUT...I think if they would have pulled the BMW and all financial support till he accepted medical treatment, the respiridone, in particular, there might have been a chance. He was not used to roughing it like some mentally ill people. But then, maybe not. But I would have tried it. Glad it wasn't my son...hindsight is 20/20.

Maybe, but it's impossible to say with any sort of certainty, so I think criticism of the parents is unfair.

I mean, this man had an entire worldview articulated - clearly one that was very, very troubled. Do you really think he would have responded to normal "threats"? I don't think he could control his perceptions much. If the car is gone and he doesn't want to take his meds, now he has an even smaller chance of getting the girl he wants and all that - but plenty of time to sit at home brooding and working on his manifesto. Plus, we have no knowledge of whether that medication even helped - we don't know why he stopped it or if he was on it long enough to know. People say "take your meds" like there is always an exact med that makes the person normal and they just hate taking them because they are evil. In reality, there are a bunch of meds, often with side effects, which have to be tried and may not help at all, or only some things, or make things worse. There are some legitimate reasons why some people drop meds, and meds wouldn't have helped them out (this is why it is hard to force meds on someone - the courts look at the side effects and inability to say if it will actually help). Of course, we will never know.

I really think the emphasis on money is misplaced in this case. His problems were much deeper than being entitled. Maybe cutting him off would have worked and he would have found some other interest and been reinvigorated by having to support himself, but maybe he would still have gone on a rampage. Maybe he would have just been threatening enough to be held and then gotten the help he needed. No one knows, and as you said, hindsight is 20/20.
 
On a chat board I read someone on there said at the premiere ER was wearing the same shirt as he wore in one of his video's.Maybe that was his prized $300.00 designer shirt.That might be the reason he is not dressed up, they might have tried but he might not have cooperated.That shirt looks like a cheap walmart shirt to me, but then I never have purchased a 300.00 shirt.

I'm thinking it was the Prada shirt -- wasn't that like $1200.00 and the armani sunglasses were $300. Could be totally wrong but I'm pretty positive that shirt was Prada
 
I really think the emphasis on money is misplaced in this case. His problems were much deeper than being entitled. Maybe cutting him off would have worked and he would have found some other interest and been reinvigorated by having to support himself, but maybe he would still have gone on a rampage. Maybe he would have just been threatening enough to be held and then gotten the help he needed. No one knows, and as you said, hindsight is 20/20.

RSBBM -- I'm not sure how I feel about it to be honest. Most of his rantings are centered on the idea that he was a better man because he had things. Not because he gave to the community, saved drowning puppies, or whatever other altruistic service people can perform.

He seemed to truly believe his money and status should have had women falling at his feet. Their attention solely on him. He was a grand man because he had $1300 shirts, a BMW, and whatever else. He was a God.

He was mentally ill so I try to put that into perspective. ER had some grandiose ideas of the world and his place in it. His ability to acquire things didn't help his view of the world. He thought it made him better than everyone else. The rest of the world around him didn't agree.

JMO & :twocents:
 
I'm beginning to think this child needed one of those harsh boot-camps for boys to help straighten him out.

Perhaps that would have helped to ID his true disorder earlier and so that none of us would be here today talking about his final atrocious actions. JMO

He needed to be locked up in a mental institution. Under strict supervision and pumped up full of meds. Which we don't even do anymore. We let all these people out.
Even if he lived at home, that in all likelihood wouldn't have prevented this tragedy. He would have likely just had a different set of victims.
 
JUST A REMINDER: When sleuthing social media for ER, you must be certain it is him/his, before posting it here at Websleuths.

That may mean, if you have found websites out there, you have to keep them under your hat until it can be verified that they are, indeed, ER's.


Salem

PS - this post lands at random and is just a reminder. :)
 
He needed to be locked up in a mental institution. Under strict supervision and pumped up full of meds. Which we don't even do anymore. We let all these people out.
Even if he lived at home, that in all likelihood wouldn't have prevented this tragedy. He would have likely just had a different set of victims.

But I have my doubts that he presented to ANYBODY as inherently dangerous, except maybe as a danger to himself. He was manipulative. Who would have made the decision to lock him up? His therapists? I wonder if they were ever able to get deep enough into the real Elliot to even see the risk he posed. It's possible to sit through years of therapy and seem to be participating while never really revealing yourself. I've even seen children do it.

As much as the Elliots of the world scare me, so does the thought of locking people away as a just-in-case solution.

I don't know the answer. Better screening protocol, I guess. Figure out how to cut through the manipulation and get to the truth.
 
Great post.

Back in the 50'st is/was the shrinks and Progressive Politicians that started this whole fiasco.
Penicillin had been discovered and by the 40's was chemically IDed and in use. It cuts down on hospital stays WRT infectious diseases.

The shrinks and progressives got together to convince State and Fed. Govs that...
1) you can save money on institutionalizing by prescribing these anti-psychotic pills. Similar to the relationship between hospital stays for infections and penicillin.

2) with the mentally ill cured and self medicating, you can close and de-institutionalize, saving billions in funding, taxes, a win/win, we found utopia.

3) No more Snake Pit horror movie scenarios and fear of wrongful incarceration in a mental institute and people cured by the millions.

California, as usual fell for the rainbow unicorn BS and bought it lock, stock, and barrel. Others followed suit.

Now fast forward to today, it is almost impossible to have any form of involuntary institutionalization plus there's really no where to house them. All the State facilities are long since turned into parks and shopping centers.

Slowly but surely, California is providing a roost for it's outlandish political policies. Other States will undoubtedly follow.

Meanwhile the needy and the sane suffer their political folly.

Hm. A different look at it

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/
 
" wore my extravagant Hugo Boss shirt, which I thought looked elegant
enough to walk on the black carpet. As we were lining up for our walk on the black carpet, some dumb ***** of a security g
uard had the audacity to question “who the hell are these people”. This made me so enraged that I almost said “we are people who are more important than you, you ugly c***”, but Soumaya’s publicist calmly informed her of our invitation. We then proceeded t
o walk across the long black carpet as cameras flashed at us from one side, and a crowd of pathetic fans who reminded me of
sheep cheered from the other side. I felt extremely gratified at walking on the black carpet with father and Soumaya, and I cockily smiled at all of the stupid fans who had to remain on the side, rubbing it right in their faces. There were some actors and celebrities on the carpet with us, and the paparazzi yelled at me a few times to get out of the way as they were taking pictures of some **** actress. I discreetly gave those paparazzi pigs my middle finger. Elliot Rodger will not move aside for a stupid, good-for-nothing, over-
glorified actress, whoever the **** she was. I didn’t see.
 
RSBBM -- I'm not sure how I feel about it to be honest. Most of his rantings are centered on the idea that he was a better man because he had things. Not because he gave to the community, saved drowning puppies, or whatever other altruistic service people can perform.

He seemed to truly believe his money and status should have had women falling at his feet. Their attention solely on him. He was a grand man because he had $1300 shirts, a BMW, and whatever else. He was a God.

He was mentally ill so I try to put that into perspective. ER had some grandiose ideas of the world and his place in it. His ability to acquire things didn't help his view of the world. He thought it made him better than everyone else. The rest of the world around him didn't agree.

JMO & :twocents:

Certainly money was a part of his life, but I feel like that's just one way he was rationalizing his frustrations. I mean, would not having money have made him think "ok, well no girls like me, but it must be because I don't have money, so I'll go be super successful and get them." It would probably have made him think "girls only care about money, I can never get one, I hate rich, successful people, and materialistic girls." It seems like the main issue was a lack of ability to connect to people, and the frustration that would obviously come of it. There would always have been a rationalization. He would always have wanted more as a solution to difficulties, which in his inability to connect, seemed to be the fault of everyone else. I just don't think money pretty much ever makes a difference - access to help, willingness to get help, and a sense of perspective do. You can lack those things or possess them with or without money depending on the situation.

And in regard to other posts, there is just nothing based on the info we have that would have resulted in him being institutionalized. I don't think people realize how many people we would have to institutionalize if the qualification was "strange".

In the old institutions, you had all the mentally retarded or otherwise disabled people locked up when they did not need to be in many cases, but functional weird people may not have been until they became violent. Oftentimes family members could get people like that committed, but that's not a system I want to return to - not the exact same situation, but all I can think of is Rosemary Kennedy. Being weird or disobedient or off is not grounds for losing all control. I do think one issue today is that unlike in the past, functional but very strange people cannot just join the family business and quickly marry a local girl who needed a husband. There's no structure - it's obvious they don't fit in, and little prospect of a normal relationship. I think that affects young people more than anything today, in terms of the behaviors people complain about. Over the last few decades the "path" American society had set up and the expectations that come along with it have largely evaporated, with good and bad consequences.

Dealing with violent people, mentally ill or not, is part of living in a society. I do not believe it can be solved. Violence is part of human nature that modern society attempts to break people of, but it can't work for everybody.
 
True.
Can't be on WOW 24/7 but if he wasn't coping it was his only escape.
I don't see his parents as innocent in this, I believe in nurture and nature (DNA) created him. I know many will disagree with me on it.
After watching videos of his father and step-mother they weren't teaching him to develop talents or a good personality, they were too obsessed with fame & money themselves.

bbm
As I told my mother about my sister that could not/can't get her act together. She is a product of her environment. I would get the evil eye, because it was true.
 
I think we can teach people how to have strategies to deal with anger. There are many studies on this looking at cortisol levels and how to get people to calm down.

Dealing with anger would be a huge step forward. People need to know it is OK to be angry. What one does with the anger is what needs to be taught.

Identifying stressors is another thing to work on. They are different for individuals. For instance, if there is no coffee, that would not matter one bit to me, but it might make others be very upset.

I truly believe Elliot was different in that his apparent Aspergers made him focus on himself. Some focus on math or tools. He focused on himself. Who knows what makes one focus on math as opposed to fancy cars, for instance
 
Certainly money was a part of his life, but I feel like that's just one way he was rationalizing his frustrations. I mean, would not having money have made him think "ok, well no girls like me, but it must be because I don't have money, so I'll go be super successful and get them." It would probably have made him think "girls only care about money, I can never get one, I hate rich, successful people, and materialistic girls." It seems like the main issue was a lack of ability to connect to people, and the frustration that would obviously come of it. There would always have been a rationalization. He would always have wanted more as a solution to difficulties, which in his inability to connect, seemed to be the fault of everyone else. I just don't think money pretty much ever makes a difference - access to help, willingness to get help, and a sense of perspective do. You can lack those things or possess them with or without money depending on the situation.

And in regard to other posts, there is just nothing based on the info we have that would have resulted in him being institutionalized. I don't think people realize how many people we would have to institutionalize if the qualification was "strange".

In the old institutions, you had all the mentally retarded or otherwise disabled people locked up when they did not need to be in many cases, but functional weird people may not have been until they became violent. Oftentimes family members could get people like that committed, but that's not a system I want to return to - not the exact same situation, but all I can think of is Rosemary Kennedy. Being weird or disobedient or off is not grounds for losing all control. I do think one issue today is that unlike in the past, functional but very strange people cannot just join the family business and quickly marry a local girl who needed a husband. There's no structure - it's obvious they don't fit in, and little prospect of a normal relationship. I think that affects young people more than anything today, in terms of the behaviors people complain about. Over the last few decades the "path" American society had set up and the expectations that come along with it have largely evaporated, with good and bad consequences.

Dealing with violent people, mentally ill or not, is part of living in a society. I do not believe it can be solved. Violence is part of human nature that modern society attempts to break people of, but it can't work for everybody.

BBM

Seems to be contradictory paragraphs.

If nothing else, he had exhibited numerous signs and had numerous "therapists" and parents and friends and roommates and LE that were aware.

I don't believe in the defeatist attitude that he couldn't either be helped or be put away. If in fact he's just the product of society, it's even more reason to confront the civil libertarians for an exit loop for these kooks.
 
HLN has Joey Jackson on about ER right now.
 
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