Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

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I was looking at that same chart and didn't want to be the only one interested in this rather unpleasant topic. But it's a crucial topic.

If nothing was found in the mobile home that was decomposing (meat out on the counter), I would assume that they wouldn't mention it in the search warrant (and I think they used it as evidence of possible homicide - hence the homicide appendix to the search warrant).

Most forensics manuals say 48-72 hours before decomp odors are able to be detected by human noses. For the smell to have permeated the house enough to be smelled immediately, the body had to have been there at least 48 hours IMO (I'm choosing the lower end of the time period because it was so hot out there and it's a mobile home - if the A/C was not on during that period, it would go faster). But how could this have happened between July 22 and 24? The truck is sighted in Thermal on the 22nd. JRF's phone is near Julian on the 24th.

It's certainly hard to fit this fact into the timeline (unless JRF went and scouted a place for body removal, knowing the decomp clock was ticking - thinking maybe he had 72 hours before it was too noticeable). Did he then come back to Morongo Valley??

All speculation.

RBBM

I keep thinking of the Old Dale Mining District outing.

Bringing @mark1969 's timeline post forward again.

7/21 - Visited Ivanhoe Mine Rd. (Old Dale Mining District)
22hr15: sent out last video to family wechat group(group of 4 people including parents, Lin and FJ herself) from 29 Palms (Adobe Rd. going N from Whites Sands Dr. to Desert Sands Dr. to Palms Baptist Church); Together with this video there is a message saying that ‘this is a small town in the desert, there are quite many lights during this hour…….we plan to go camping. this is FJ’s last known location
22hr19: Same last video and same message was sent via Wechat messeger to wife of the chinese friend that picked her at airport. However that person said that in the past FJ never sent to her any wechat messege or video. this is FJ’s last phone message
22hr19: JRF entered MCAGCC 29palms, he registered for his own entrance

CA - CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 22 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

JMVHO.
 
I was looking at that same chart and didn't want to be the only one interested in this rather unpleasant topic. But it's a crucial topic.

If nothing was found in the mobile home that was decomposing (meat out on the counter), I would assume that they wouldn't mention it in the search warrant (and I think they used it as evidence of possible homicide - hence the homicide appendix to the search warrant).

Most forensics manuals say 48-72 hours before decomp odors are able to be detected by human noses. For the smell to have permeated the house enough to be smelled immediately, the body had to have been there at least 48 hours IMO (I'm choosing the lower end of the time period because it was so hot out there and it's a mobile home - if the A/C was not on during that period, it would go faster). But how could this have happened between July 22 and 24? The truck is sighted in Thermal on the 22nd. JRF's phone is near Julian on the 24th.

It's certainly hard to fit this fact into the timeline (unless JRF went and scouted a place for body removal, knowing the decomp clock was ticking - thinking maybe he had 72 hours before it was too noticeable). Did he then come back to Morongo Valley??

All speculation.

From personal experience of caretaking for a parent who died at home (cancer, under hospice care), there was a distinct smell within a couple of hours. (We had to wait about an hour for the hospice nurse to arrive to certify the death, then wait another hour or so by the time the funeral home people arrived to pick up my parent.)

And, I could smell that odor for many months afterward, almost a year (even though the bed and bedding had been removed from the house).

So, just from personal experience, I would think someone could notice a lingering odor of death even if a body had been there for only a couple of hours.

Just imo.
 
Can someone tell me what this location might be???

tb1970usgs.gif
The buildings didn't exist before the early 1980s however:
tb1983aerial.jpg
So it might be mining related (gold), perhaps an attempt to resume mining at a slightly different location, with newer technologies, after the OK Mine closed in 1941, but ultimately the 80s efforts probably either played out or just weren't economically successful. The loop around the buildings was probably the way for incoming dump trucks from the 62 highway to be turned around in order to point in the right direction outbound before loading with ore.
ok mine san bernardino ca - Google Search
Historic Aerials doesn't use location-specific URLs like Google and other services, that's why I can't provide a map URL other than Historic Aerials: Viewer and plugging in the coordinates.
 
And to our Verified Insider, has anyone been in contact with Equusearch? They're particularly skilled at searching areas like this.

Equusearch is simply amazing, Tim Miller truly turned his tragedy into a resource for answering prayers of other families.

There’s actually several experienced search and rescue groups in area including off-road Jeep clubs that volunteer in searches- I previously researched info.
 
From personal experience of caretaking for a parent who died at home (cancer, under hospice care), there was a distinct smell within a couple of hours. (We had to wait about an hour for the hospice nurse to arrive to certify the death, then wait another hour or so by the time the funeral home people arrived to pick up my parent.)

And, I could smell that odor for many months afterward, almost a year (even though the bed and bedding had been removed from the house).

So, just from personal experience, I would think someone could notice a lingering odor of death even if a body had been there for only a couple of hours.

Just imo.

I’m so sorry for your experience and your loss. My Dad unexpectedly required hospice care after suffering from rare complications with COVID vaccine that then resulted in Sepsis. It was was heartbreaking but I was fortunate that childhood best friend was director of the hospice care system and had people on call to respond immediately. I admire your actions as caretaker, I was not emotionally capable of managing his care, the nurses were a blessing.
 
Hi @mark1969 I am following FJ’s case from England. I am very sorry that her family and friends are suffering and hope you have some answers soon, it feels like it’s getting close.

I have a question. Did FJ know that JRF lived in a trailer, and that is where they would be staying? I’m just trying to think of how things may have started to unravel and maybe tensions started.
I think people are getting thrown off by the word ‘trailer.’ It’s a mobile home, a single family home that is used as a main domicile. I live in one- with my husband and two kids. It’s not much different than a stick built home in terms of comfort for guests. MOO
 
I think people are getting thrown off by the word ‘trailer.’ It’s a mobile home, a single family home that is used as a main domicile. I live in one- with my husband and two kids. It’s not much different than a stick built home in terms of comfort for guests. MOO

I think so too. It's a mobile home, not a trailer. Stick built can be more irregular in shape - but square footage is often similar, and mobile homes often win out over older stick houses in terms of amenities.

There was no reason for Jin Fang to be "warned" about living in a mobile home. Most people in China live in very small high rise apartments - or, in rural China, still in homes carved into mountainsides (Documentary source: Women of the Yellow Earth).
 
Hi @mark1969 I am following FJ’s case from England. I am very sorry that her family and friends are suffering and hope you have some answers soon, it feels like it’s getting close.

I have a question. Did FJ know that JRF lived in a trailer, and that is where they would be staying? I’m just trying to think of how things may have started to unravel and maybe tensions started.
This was my original thought as well. We tend to romanticize long-distance partners until we meet in real life. I had a similar relationship, with a man from UK, reality was far different than what I imagined or was led to believe. With time zones, FaceTime, strategic pictures, and general human benefit of the doubt we tends to fill in the "blanks" of what we perceive the others life is. In one of the articles it said she was cleaning his trailer and that to me is revealing. Like either he was def a bachelor or she had very different standards. Mobile homes aren't "trailers" but I do wonder if their standards were different.

An extreme example is Paris Syndrome. Reality can be far different then reality. I do believe the reality of the situation, whether he mislead her or she viewed it with rose colored glasses was very different once they met in real life.
 
BBM. I wonder if the truck wreck is how JRF's teeth were knocked out?
TRICARE, military health insurance, has good dental for Vets/retired military. They also keep records that can be accessed worldwide. They would have had or would have been able to locate his dental records if JRF had a denture/partial placed before. IMO Whatever happened to JRF's teeth happened that night -- his last night.

All MOO
Where did it say he was missing his teeth? Please post link. Thanks
 
Where did it say he was missing his teeth? Please post link. Thanks

There is no confirmation that he is missing his teeth.

Instead, we are all discussing the fact that LE says "dental records could not be used due to the state of the skeleton."

Something has to trigger that determination. There are several possibilities. But they did not use dental to ID JRF - they used his driver's license.

IMO.
 
Where are you Fang Jin!??!?!


ETA:

#BringFangJINYamahome
Bumping tarabull's post: The "Find Fang Jin Yama" YouTube channel has some amazing pics of Fang Jin, all short videos; one (w/friend Emily) shows FJ wearing a pink backpack--so cute. Wonder if that is the backpack she brought with her on CA visit. FJ seems very hip, having fun, enjoying people, trusting them. Good times. Even the Freehand Hotel where she stayed her first night after arriving in LA seems a cool place.

Hope her pink backpack is waterproof & has clues, DNA, fingerprints inside.......something helpful.
Strength to get through the hard times.
MOO

@LucyOso RE: Teeth
"An identification card was located on the body, according to the friend, who added that dental and fingerprint identification was not possible due the condition of the remains." CBS8 here
 
This was my original thought as well. We tend to romanticize long-distance partners until we meet in real life. I had a similar relationship, with a man from UK, reality was far different than what I imagined or was led to believe. With time zones, FaceTime, strategic pictures, and general human benefit of the doubt we tends to fill in the "blanks" of what we perceive the others life is. In one of the articles it said she was cleaning his trailer and that to me is revealing. Like either he was def a bachelor or she had very different standards. Mobile homes aren't "trailers" but I do wonder if their standards were different.

An extreme example is Paris Syndrome. Reality can be far different than reality. I do believe the reality of the situation, whether he mislead her or she viewed it with rose colored glasses was very different once they met in real life.
”Filling in the blanks”: Human nature to do that,I guess. Seems some get a strong negative reaction to the photos of Fang cleaning, and are “filling in the blanks” for what it means. You all could be right!

But just to show how my silly brain thinks differently, I personally didn’t immediately get strong negative thoughts about the pics. I thought it just a moment in time, where she was cleaning up something she spilled, or squishing a bug. :p And, if I was a guest for free at a friend’s place, I’d want to pitch in and help wash dishes, etc., so I didn’t think a whole lot about the fact that she was cleaning.

I did imagine she’d be looking at the camera, with a big smile, though, and wondered about that. But it was suggested here it could be a Ring camera capture. That would make more sense why she wasn’t posed.
 
From personal experience of caretaking for a parent who died at home (cancer, under hospice care), there was a distinct smell within a couple of hours. (We had to wait about an hour for the hospice nurse to arrive to certify the death, then wait another hour or so by the time the funeral home people arrived to pick up my parent.)

And, I could smell that odor for many months afterward, almost a year (even though the bed and bedding had been removed from the house).

So, just from personal experience, I would think someone could notice a lingering odor of death even if a body had been there for only a couple of hours.

Just imo.

I am sure you know your experience.

But studies using actual mechanical detectors for decomp, vs. human sense of smell vs. canine detection all show different results. Some humans have very good senses of smell (mine is entirely average - as of course, is true of most people).

The chemistry of decomp is very well known. There are hand held detectors for the chemicals (each has a known chemical structure). There are *other* odors associated with death than just decomp (which, IIRC, consists of 2 main biochemicals and 4 others). There are odors associated with particular cancers. So, since you only have the one experience, you can't know for certain that it was decomp you smelled. It could have been early death byproducts.

Decomp is a very well studied process. In some conditions, people with an excellent sense of smell can smell it in 24 hours. That's unusual. The charts that one other poster and myself have been discussing are for AVERAGES over many, many instances of decomp. This is what the forensic literature says.

Heat and humidity (and presence of certain bacteria and insects) can speed it up. So, in this case, we know it was hot (but not humid). We do not know whether LE also noticed, say, insects inside the mobile home. We don't know whether the responding officer was a super smeller.

But I'm here to tell you that it's exceeding rare for cadaverine and putrescine to be sensed by any average human before 24 hours (but a mobile home with the door closed and windows closed and no A/C/ would be different - someone left the door open...probably to air it out?)

Responding officers noticed it on August 1. Most LE have experience of smelling cadaverine and putrescine. I got mine in anatomy lab (nothing could cover it up - even though the bodies we were dissecting were thoroughly soaked in formaldehyde - which, btw, is another substance that is quite strong to smell - and ALSO present at most deaths, along with Methanethiol - which is not the complete "decomp" smell."

So unless each of us has experience with actual decaying bodies, it's hard to say that we each know what decomp smells like. Death comes with many smells, but decomp is specific (IMO).

The average time at which these decomp chemicals are first sensed by humans is 24-48 hours but, if the death is more out of doors or the weather is cold and dry - 72 hours).

The responding officers smelled it. On August 1. Presumably, since the door was open, it had time to dissipate. But when did someone die in that mobile home??? If it had been a rodent caught in a trap, I do believe LE would have mentioned it. They apparently found no source for the smell.

Which indicates that someone died, started decomposing (so their body was there at a minimum of 12 hours - but more likely 24 hours - as it was hot, maybe longer). There is no body to autopsy, as it is impossible for JFR to have died in his mobile home AND to have driven his truck. Of course, someone could have killed him, left him in the mobile home, and then transported his body (with his truck) via Thermal and Julian, over the next 2 days. But the body had to have been in the trailer for at least 24 hours for the smell to still remain on August 1, IMO.

IME.
 
”Filling in the blanks”: Human nature to do that,I guess. Seems some get a strong negative reaction to the photos of Fang cleaning, and are “filling in the blanks” for what it means. You all could be right!

But just to show how my silly brain thinks differently, I personally didn’t immediately get strong negative thoughts about the pics. I thought it just a moment in time, where she was cleaning up something she spilled, or squishing a bug. :p And, if I was a guest for free at a friend’s place, I’d want to pitch in and help wash dishes, etc., so I didn’t think a whole lot about the fact that she was cleaning.

I did imagine she’d be looking at the camera, with a big smile, though, and wondered about that. But it was suggested here it could be a Ring camera capture. That would make more sense why she wasn’t posed.

It's the fact that JFR is sitting in the background, not helping her do whatever she's doing that I think says something about the relationship dynamic. NO way a guest in my house would be doing that (or, in the house of most of the people I know; nor would my husband ever let a lady clean the floor...)

You can see JFR sitting impassively while his new friend/guest is wiping the floor. DH's view on why he took the picture and what he thought was going on is unknown to us - but crucial testimony.

IMO.
 
It's the fact that JFR is sitting in the background, not helping her do whatever she's doing that I think says something about the relationship dynamic. NO way a guest in my house would be doing that (or, in the house of most of the people I know; nor would my husband ever let a lady clean the floor...)

You can see JFR sitting impassively while his new friend/guest is wiping the floor. DH's view on why he took the picture and what he thought was going on is unknown to us - but crucial testimony.

IMO.
Do you have a link to the photo?
 
No. Someone has to ask for it. It's not something that just happens without someone petitioning the court.

Many people divorce without restraining orders - that's the more common situation, in fact.



Teeth can fall out of a skull as it bleaches and the gums decompose. Rains came through after July and the skull itself could have been carried in run-off (it looks as if it was found in a wash - the entire area is filled with gullies and washes). Teeth can come out when this happens.

We have no proof that his teeth were knocked out as opposed to simply falling out of his skull. And if he did have dentures/partials and they were missing, I am not sure that dental records would work to identify him if those things were missing. It's also not clear that the lower jaw was found.

At any rate, I'm not sure it's known how many teeth were found in the skull, but not enough to ID him (they used his DL).

IMO.
simple Q here- is the CA driver's license laminated? my state's is just paper and flooding severe enough to separate a skull and teeth would practically dissolve it. I do not understand not having clothing with the body- maybe the pictures in MSM are incomplete or not accurate. Clothing does not just disappear quickly. Seems not-like-an-accident and I do not understand the mobile home unlocked, the decomp, Fang missing. Maybe homicide and accident and flooding? I imagine they can tell if the truck was damaged by flooding or some other cause. Maybe there are sand washes and things are now buried?
 
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