Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

[megs1477]

I believe that JRF could be a victim of his own sudden emotional depression when he tried to wreck his car on purpose in Harper Flat or Pinyon Wash ... Maybe becaused what might have happened in the days before ??

I completely understand and anything is possible. My question though is, is there any evidence to support him intentionally hurting JF?
So far, the evidence points to an accident or a third party. That may change, but look at the inverse. If everyone was claiming JF came here and did something horrible to JRF, wouldn’t you want to know why they thought that?
The initial reasoning was JRF’s “criminal history” which we have shown is not significant or an indication he is a bad person.
There are so many accusations being thrown around, I feel like it is unfair to him at this point, as he too is a victim. Imagine his family, his children, reading all these things about him. It’s very sad IMO.

 

[Cedars]

It IS certainly uncomfortable to think it.
I’m sorry for brainstorming scenarios that make anyone uneasy.

Let’s go back to offering alternative scenarios, then, taking into account:

[1] Fang sent her last night video at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[2] JRF entered the marine base at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[3] 7/22 truck sighting in Thermal.
[4] 7/24 JRF phone ping in the Julian area.
[5] No phone usage from Fang after 7/21. No ping from her phone, say SBCSO.
[6] Odor of decomposition in JRF’s home (observed 8/1).
[7] Mobile home’s door open (observed 8/1).

—-
This won’t be all known facts, of course, as I’m trying to fill in the blanks for a possible scenario that does not involve JRF harming Fang :

So…
Fang’s last video was just a normal video sent as she sits in the truck as JRF pulls in to the marine base with the intention to gas up his truck. Another busy day is planned for tomorrow that will include lots of driving in the desert, so a full tank is a good idea. Since the pumps are still open, it’s a better time to do it that time of night while it’s cooler, and they’re still out and awake, anyway.

She writes they’ll be going camping, but it is not really true. She knows her parents would be vocal in their disapproval of the reality, and would worry about her too much, so she tells them this instead of letting them know she is spending her nights with her new beau at his mobile home in the desert.

They leave his Morongo Valley home the next day, 7/22. We know the truck was captured on surveillance in the Thermal, CA area, so this is where they went.

This is where I get stumped.

7/22 to 7/24…Did they ‘sleep under the stars’ in the bed of his truck (is that allowed) in the Anza Borrego area the whole time away? VI said there was not much in the way of provisions in the truck, though, when found.

Harper Flat, where the truck is found: is this when they had some accident? We know the truck, when found, was “pretty wrecked“. JRF had attempted a difficult rocky path that he shouldn’t have and disabled his truck, then they start walking to get somewhere safe or get a cell signal, but succumb to the heat?

Still doesn’t answer why she never returned calls or sent any messages on her phone. Nowhere to charge her phone? Lost her phone along the way ? JRF doesn’t have WeChat on his phone (if want to borrow his), and even if he did, would it be hard to access Fang’s account with her circle of friends from his phone?

I also don’t know where the odor of decomposition and open door fit into this, but..

It was suggested maybe spoiled meat and other food in the refrigerator/freezer, if the power was out for days?

As for the door being open, I feel like JRF would lock his door as a habit. So, who left it open? Maybe his place got broken into while they were gone for a few days on their trip, and the thief left it open?

It’s tough filling in the blanks for what we don’t know!

What occurs to me is no one has mentioned a key issue: food.

Home cooked or eaten out? Quality restaurants or fast food, or grocery deli? Vegetables or not? Chinese or not?

The big drag about travelling around is how often the need to eat comes up. And how to satisfy that with two people who often have different tastes. And who pays, how do they pay? Is there a trail of credit card transactions that LE got, back in early August?

JMO

 

[Dhighsmith]

It IS certainly uncomfortable to think it.
I’m sorry for brainstorming scenarios that make anyone uneasy.

Let’s go back to offering alternative scenarios, then, taking into account:

[1] Fang sent her last night video at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[2] JRF entered the marine base at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[3] 7/22 truck sighting in Thermal.
[4] 7/24 JRF phone ping in the Julian area.
[5] No phone usage from Fang after 7/21. No ping from her phone, say SBCSO.
[6] Odor of decomposition in JRF’s home (observed 8/1).
[7] Mobile home’s door open (observed 8/1).

—-
This won’t be all known facts, of course, as I’m trying to fill in the blanks for a possible scenario that does not involve JRF harming Fang :

So…
Fang’s last video was just a normal video sent as she sits in the truck as JRF pulls in to the marine base with the intention to gas up his truck. Another busy day is planned for tomorrow that will include lots of driving in the desert, so a full tank is a good idea. Since the pumps are still open, it’s a better time to do it that time of night while it’s cooler, and they’re still out and awake, anyway.

She writes they’ll be going camping, but it is not really true. She knows her parents would be vocal in their disapproval of the reality, and would worry about her too much, so she tells them this instead of letting them know she is spending her nights with her new beau at his mobile home in the desert.

They leave his Morongo Valley home the next day, 7/22. We know the truck was captured on surveillance in the Thermal, CA area, so this is where they went.

This is where I get stumped.

7/22 to 7/24…Did they ‘sleep under the stars’ in the bed of his truck (is that allowed) in the Anza Borrego area the whole time away? VI said there was not much in the way of provisions in the truck, though, when found.

Harper Flat, where the truck is found: is this when they had some accident? We know the truck, when found, was “pretty wrecked“. JRF had attempted a difficult rocky path that he shouldn’t have and disabled his truck, then they start walking to get somewhere safe or get a cell signal, but succumb to the heat?

Still doesn’t answer why she never returned calls or sent any messages on her phone. Nowhere to charge her phone? Lost her phone along the way ? JRF doesn’t have WeChat on his phone (if want to borrow his), and even if he did, would it be hard to access Fang’s account with her circle of friends from his phone?

I also don’t know where the odor of decomposition and open door fit into this, but..

It was suggested maybe spoiled meat and other food in the refrigerator/freezer, if the power was out for days?

As for the door being open, I feel like JRF would lock his door as a habit. So, who left it open? Maybe his place got broken into while they were gone for a few days on their trip, and the thief left it open?

It’s tough filling in the blanks for what we don’t know!

I’m looking at LE’s investigation of homicide as support of foul play and not misadventure.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

It IS certainly uncomfortable to think it.
I’m sorry for brainstorming scenarios that make anyone uneasy.

Let’s go back to offering alternative scenarios, then, taking into account:

[1] Fang sent her last night video at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[2] JRF entered the marine base at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[3] 7/22 truck sighting in Thermal.
[4] 7/24 JRF phone ping in the Julian area.
[5] No phone usage from Fang after 7/21. No ping from her phone, say SBCSO.
[6] Odor of decomposition in JRF’s home (observed 8/1).
[7] Mobile home’s door open (observed 8/1).

—-
This won’t be all known facts, of course, as I’m trying to fill in the blanks for a possible scenario that does not involve JRF harming Fang :

So…
Fang’s last video was just a normal video sent as she sits in the truck as JRF pulls in to the marine base with the intention to gas up his truck. Another busy day is planned for tomorrow that will include lots of driving in the desert, so a full tank is a good idea. Since the pumps are still open, it’s a better time to do it that time of night while it’s cooler, and they’re still out and awake, anyway.

She writes they’ll be going camping, but it is not really true. She knows her parents would be vocal in their disapproval of the reality, and would worry about her too much, so she tells them this instead of letting them know she is spending her nights with her new beau at his mobile home in the desert.

They leave his Morongo Valley home the next day, 7/22. We know the truck was captured on surveillance in the Thermal, CA area, so this is where they went.

This is where I get stumped.

7/22 to 7/24…Did they ‘sleep under the stars’ in the bed of his truck (is that allowed) in the Anza Borrego area the whole time away? VI said there was not much in the way of provisions in the truck, though, when found.

Harper Flat, where the truck is found: is this when they had some accident? We know the truck, when found, was “pretty wrecked“. JRF had attempted a difficult rocky path that he shouldn’t have and disabled his truck, then they start walking to get somewhere safe or get a cell signal, but succumb to the heat?

Still doesn’t answer why she never returned calls or sent any messages on her phone. Nowhere to charge her phone? Lost her phone along the way ? JRF doesn’t have WeChat on his phone (if want to borrow his), and even if he did, would it be hard to access Fang’s account with her circle of friends from his phone?

I also don’t know where the odor of decomposition and open door fit into this, but..

It was suggested maybe spoiled meat and other food in the refrigerator/freezer, if the power was out for days?

As for the door being open, I feel like JRF would lock his door as a habit. So, who left it open? Maybe his place got broken into while they were gone for a few days on their trip, and the thief left it open?

It’s tough filling in the blanks for what we don’t know!

Thank you. I certainly don't blame anyone for wondering if JRF did something to JF, it just doesn't seem entirely fair to him until LE make an announcement of some sort. I've run through numerous possible scenarios myself, I just haven't felt comfortable posting them here.

Your ideas are very similar to a possible scenario I did post previously. Only in the scenario I proposed, JF and JRF could have had an accident either late on the 22nd or early on the 23rd, no more than 24-36 hours after JF's last contact. I believe it has been said she previously went 30 hours without contact, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the lack of contact on the 22nd was innocent.

Have LE actually said there were no pings from JF's phone after the 21st? I haven't seen that. If you could provide a link for that I would be very appreciative. Our VI has said JF's phone went dead on the 25th, which suggests it was turned on but not being answered--in which case it should have been pinging cell towers.

 

[slowpoke]

What occurs to me is no one has mentioned a key issue: food.

Home cooked or eaten out? Quality restaurants or fast food, or grocery deli? Vegetables or not? Chinese or not?

The big drag about travelling around is how often the need to eat comes up. And how to satisfy that with two people who often have different tastes. And who pays, how do they pay? Is there a trail of credit card transactions that LE got, back in early August?

JMO

Our VI said, regarding transactions when I asked about Fang’s:

“If you are as guest with somebody , you have quite some cash and you are in a desolated place not to spend alot during your first days ... that will be the reason of no traceable transactions”

I am not certain what he meant, but I think I interpret it to mean she was JRF’s guest, so she may have only used cash for little incidentals as he paid for most things. She hadn’t been in the US long yet—another reason she hadn’t yet begun spending more (like on souvenirs, I guess). At any rate, it doesn’t sound like Fang‘s spending can’t be traced. (just my interpretation)

If the above is correct, then JRF’s purchases may tell more of their movements.

 

[slowpoke]

Thank you. I certainly don't blame anyone for wondering if JRF did something to JF, it just doesn't seem entirely fair to him until LE make an announcement of some sort. I've run through numerous possible scenarios myself, I just haven't felt comfortable posting them here.

Your ideas are very similar to a possible scenario I did post previously. Only in the scenario I proposed, JF and JRF could have had an accident either late on the 22nd or early on the 23rd, no more than 24-36 hours after JF's last contact. I believe it has been said she previously went 30 hours without contact, so it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the lack of contact on the 22nd was innocent.

Have LE actually said there were no pings from JF's phone after the 21st? I haven't seen that. If you could provide a link for that I would be very appreciative. Our VI has said JF's phone went dead on the 25th, which suggests it was turned on but not being answered--in which case it should have been pinging cell towers.

The cbs8 article: bbm
“San Bernardino County Sheriff emailed CBS 8 a series of statements confirming Jin was last heard from on July 22 and her cell phone has not been found.
“The missing person case for Fang Jin remains open. There are no updates at this time. The investigators are aware of the video and believe it was the last communication Jin’s family received from her. We did not receive any phone pings from Jin’s phone,” San Bernardino Sheriff spokesperson Mara Rodriguez wrote.

 

[Cedars]

Our VI said, regarding transactions when I asked about Fang’s:

“If you are as guest with somebody , you have quite some cash and you are in a desolated place not to spend alot during your first days ... that will be the reason of no traceable transactions”

I am not certain what he meant, but I think I interpret it to mean she was JRF’s guest, so she may have only used cash for little incidentals as he paid for most things. She hadn’t been in the US long yet—another reason she hadn’t yet begun spending more (like on souvenirs, I guess). At any rate, it doesn’t sound like Fang‘s spending can’t be traced. (just my interpretation)

If the above is correct, then JRF’s purchases may tell more of their movements.

Yes, that was my thought as well.

LE would have his financial transactions (at least cash withdrawls, but more likely CC) and also his past history of transactions. IMO if that pattern changed, it would indicate something, too.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The cbs8 article: bbm
“San Bernardino County Sheriff emailed CBS 8 a series of statements confirming Jin was last heard from on July 22 and her cell phone has not been found.
“The missing person case for Fang Jin remains open. There are no updates at this time. The investigators are aware of the video and believe it was the last communication Jin’s family received from her. We did not receive any phone pings from Jin’s phone,” San Bernardino Sheriff spokesperson Mara Rodriguez wrote.

Thank you, that's... really confusing.

If a phone is turned on it should be pinging. Our VI said it went dead on the 25th, but I don't think you could know when it went dead unless the phone had been responding (pinging) up to that point.

Three or four days of battery life would be quite normal for a phone that is turned on but not being used.

 

[Quiet Time]

If the phone were under water as a result of Hurricane Hilary, would/could it still ping?

Pictures on another site showed the aftermath of that hurricane. Lots of water everywhere in a once dry desert.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

If the phone were under water as a result of Hurricane Hilary, would/could it still ping?

Pictures on another site showed the aftermath of that hurricane. Lots of water everywhere in a once dry desert.

I think Hurricane Hilary was in August.

JF's phone had already died long before that, but it's possible that Hilary will have tossed around and perhaps buried a lot of potential evidence.

 

[I'm Nobody]

It IS certainly uncomfortable to think it.
I’m sorry for brainstorming scenarios that make anyone uneasy.

Let’s go back to offering alternative scenarios, then, taking into account:

[1] Fang sent her last night video at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[2] JRF entered the marine base at 10:19pm on 7/21.
[3] 7/22 truck sighting in Thermal.
[4] 7/24 JRF phone ping in the Julian area.
[5] No phone usage from Fang after 7/21. No ping from her phone, say SBCSO.
[6] Odor of decomposition in JRF’s home (observed 8/1).
[7] Mobile home’s door open (observed 8/1).

—-
This won’t be all known facts, of course, as I’m trying to fill in the blanks for a possible scenario that does not involve JRF harming Fang :

So…
Fang’s last video was just a normal video sent as she sits in the truck as JRF pulls in to the marine base with the intention to gas up his truck. Another busy day is planned for tomorrow that will include lots of driving in the desert, so a full tank is a good idea. Since the pumps are still open, it’s a better time to do it that time of night while it’s cooler, and they’re still out and awake, anyway.

She writes they’ll be going camping, but it is not really true. She knows her parents would be vocal in their disapproval of the reality, and would worry about her too much, so she tells them this instead of letting them know she is spending her nights with her new beau at his mobile home in the desert.

They leave his Morongo Valley home the next day, 7/22. We know the truck was captured on surveillance in the Thermal, CA area, so this is where they went.

This is where I get stumped.

7/22 to 7/24…Did they ‘sleep under the stars’ in the bed of his truck (is that allowed) in the Anza Borrego area the whole time away? VI said there was not much in the way of provisions in the truck, though, when found.

Harper Flat, where the truck is found: is this when they had some accident? We know the truck, when found, was “pretty wrecked“. JRF had attempted a difficult rocky path that he shouldn’t have and disabled his truck, then they start walking to get somewhere safe or get a cell signal, but succumb to the heat?

Still doesn’t answer why she never returned calls or sent any messages on her phone. Nowhere to charge her phone? Lost her phone along the way ? JRF doesn’t have WeChat on his phone (if want to borrow his), and even if he did, would it be hard to access Fang’s account with her circle of friends from his phone?

I also don’t know where the odor of decomposition and open door fit into this, but..

It was suggested maybe spoiled meat and other food in the refrigerator/freezer, if the power was out for days?

As for the door being open, I feel like JRF would lock his door as a habit. So, who left it open? Maybe his place got broken into while they were gone for a few days on their trip, and the thief left it open?

It’s tough filling in the blanks for what we don’t know!

Thank you @slowpoke I love timelines.

^^^[4] 7/24 JRF phone ping in the Julian area. (JRF'S last known ping to us)
From VI JF's phone "died" on 7/25.
Could 7/25 date really be 7/24 bc of, like many discussions re: last video sent 7/22 v 7/21, time difference/ translation between China and US?
IF so last know date / info for BOTH JF & JRF's phones were same 7/24.
That makes sense to me if something happened to both of them or both their phones at the same time.

JMO

Found Deceased - CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

I am in the minority but I don't believe they are victims of an accident (doesn't explain the smell of decomposition at the trailer home). Yes, I'd like to know more about that smell. Surely the police would've done a thorough search of the home inside and out to find the source of that smell...

www.websleuths.com

 

[LucyOso]

Thank you, that's... really confusing.

If a phone is turned on it should be pinging. Our VI said it went dead on the 25th, but I don't think you could know when it went dead unless the phone had been responding (pinging) up to that point.

Three or four days of battery life would be quite normal for a phone that is turned on but not being used.

Unless she was using WIFI. That is not uncommon when people travel internationally to limit SIM card usage due to cost. It wouldn't ping on a call tower if she was using WIFI with cellular data off. It could mean her phone was in the trailer or near a logged in source of WIFI for a bit. It could also mean she was using JRF's wifi hotpot as well during their outings.

 

[nao]

Unless she was using WIFI. That is not uncommon when people travel internationally to limit SIM card usage due to cost. It wouldn't ping on a call tower if she was using WIFI with cellular data off. It could mean her phone was in the trailer or near a logged in source of WIFI for a bit. It could also mean she was using JRF's wifi hotpot as well during their outings.

Moo...yes my family n friends always uses apps that only require wifi

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Unless she was using WIFI. That is not uncommon when people travel internationally to limit SIM card usage due to cost. It wouldn't ping on a call tower if she was using WIFI with cellular data off. It could mean her phone was in the trailer or near a logged in source of WIFI for a bit. It could also mean she was using JRF's wifi hotpot as well during their outings.

Possible, though if JF had been using JRF's phone as a wifi hotspot (or connecting to his wifi at the trailer) I would expect there to be records of an additional device connecting to the network in his internet and/or phone provider logs.

If JF had been doing that I suspect LE would already know, and they'd know when and where it last connected.

 

[nao]

Possible, though if JF had been using JRF's phone as a wifi hotspot (or connecting to his wifi at the trailer) I would expect there to be records of an additional device connecting to the network in his internet and/or phone provider logs.

If JF had been doing that I suspect LE would already know, and they'd know when and where it

Moo . I live rural there are usually places to access free wifi, stores, fastfood places, the army base? Etc. I don't even need a sim card to use an app to communicate internationally through WiFi. I usually have 2 phones with me when traveling one with sim the other not, just in case I lose or break one.

 

[Cedars]

Moo . I live rural there are usually places to access free wifi, stores, fastfood places, the army base? Etc. I don't even need a sim card to use an app to communicate internationally through WiFi. I usually have 2 phones with me when traveling one with sim the other not, just in case I lose or break one.

I think, as a long time traveller, Jin would also have strategies to minimize phone costs.

JMO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Moo . I live rural there are usually places to access free wifi, stores, fastfood places, the army base? Etc.

Very true, though the messages JF sent to friends and family would probably give some indication of where they were sent from.

Interestingly, until now I don't think I've seen anyone discussing how JF connected to the internet.

Different wifi spots would have different identifiable IP addresses. JF's phone hasn't been found but the recipients of her messages might have more metadata in those messages than they realize.

 

[AmandaSkis]

About the open door at the trailer, two thoughts:

1) it must be a safe neighborhood, regardless of who left the door open. We have read that FJ‘s belongings and cash were still in the trailer.

2) It is my theory that DH left the trailer door open, knowing that it would cause immediate suspicion from LE, who would take this seriously right away.

 

[ch_13]

Very true, though the messages JF sent to friends and family would probably give some indication of where they were sent from.

Interestingly, until now I don't think I've seen anyone discussing how JF connected to the internet.

Different wifi spots would have different identifiable IP addresses. JF's phone hasn't been found but the recipients of her messages might have more metadata in those messages than they realize.

Photos will contain metadata that shows the location where they were taken (although some apps will strip that data out).

However, as far as I know, text messages and emails don't contain any data that identifies where they were sent from. The IP address in an email would be that of the email provider's server, e.g. Gmail would have a Google IP address. As you can imagine, it would be a huge security issue if people could track your location through your email or texts.

Now the email provider as well as third-party messaging systems, like WhatsApp, Signal, Snap, etc. can partially track users. At least they can get the IP that's associated with the service provider you are connected through. But then you would need to contact the service provider to get the actual location. It would be very complicated dealing with multiple corporations and probably require a court order to try and figure out where someone was located. (It's also easy to obfuscate by using a VPN.)

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Photos will contain metadata that shows the location where they were taken (although some apps will strip that data out).

However, as far as I know, text messages and emails don't contain any data that identifies where they were sent from. The IP address in an email would be that of the email provider's server, e.g. Gmail would have a Google IP address. As you can imagine, it would be a huge security issue, if people could track your location through your email or texts.

Now the email provider as well as third-party messaging systems, like WhatsApp, Signal, Snap, etc. can partially track users. At least they can get the IP that's associated with the service provider you are connected through. But then you would need to contact the service provider to get the actual location. It would be very complicated dealing with multiple corporations and probably require a court order to try and figure out where someone was located. (It's also easy to obfuscate by using a VPN.)

Agreed. I didn't mean to suggest getting useful information would be easy. In situations like this you almost always have to go to the service providers, but when you have nothing else to go on anything's worth a try.

I'd been assuming JF was using cell service and all of her information would be with her phone provider. But if she was using free wifi, her data could be scattered all over the place. The providers of the apps she was using might have the IP addresses and other metadata. If you can get it from them.