Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

[10ofRods]

Hmmm... around the world, scavenging birds are often used to locate bodies for exactly this reason. A large number in one place is a sign that something has died at that location.

if there had been lots of vultures scavenging at Anza-Borrego, you'd think somebody might have noticed and gone to see what it was. But apparently not.

It's almost a daily occurrence - in fact I see vultures circling pretty frequently, as I live near one of SoCal's "rivers" (it is actually running right now but often just a trickle). Coyotes kill family pets frequently and vultures are the first to assemble after the coyotes are done. Occasionally, someone does go looking for a missing cow or sheep, though - but not in Anza Borrego. There are carcasses of wild sheep for sure. Most people would assume that's what it was.

This was quite a way from the main road, and I don't think that the missing persons case was well-publicized in SD County (until they found JRF's. body)

Even if someone had noticed, it was 115-117 in the shade and only the foolhardy would risk their life to try and find the source of the vulture food, IMO.

I would never encourage someone to take even a 15-20 minute walk in those temps (120-121 in the sun? Maybe higher? Certainly was *no* shade in the Harper Flat/Harper Canyon/Pinyon Wash region - and one would need to really plan the hike well (let's say they went from the northern parking areas) - it would still have taken an hour or two to get to the bodies.

Since most vulture scavenging is distributed over land with no paths or roads, and very few non-tourists go to the area at all, it would very unlikely for anyone to 1) notice it and 2) think 'Oh, must be a human!"

 

[mark1969]

Found Deceased - CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

I was looking at that same chart and didn't want to be the only one interested in this rather unpleasant topic. But it's a crucial topic. If nothing was found in the mobile home that was decomposing (meat out on the counter), I would assume that they wouldn't mention it in the search warrant...

www.websleuths.com

No picture showing dentition or lack thereof, but it was clear from this information early on that the teeth were severely damaged or missing. Otherwise, they could have IDed John using dental records. It was reported in MSM in that article by CBS8 that they could not identify based on dentals. The skull is one of the only body parts of John we know for a fact WAS recovered, and we do have a picture of it. It's blurred, but it is obviously a skull. So it's not that they just haven't found his skull for comparison. And it's not because he never saw a dentist, because it specifies that it can't be IDed based on dentals 'due to the condition of the remains.' So it isn't that they don't have anything to compare it to.

MOO

As VI ...I really can confirm there were still alot of teeth in the skull of JRF that was found

 

[ch_13]

As VI ...I really can confirm there were still alot of teeth in the skull of JRF that was found

Mark, do you have any idea why the authorities have been so slow to confirm that the remains are those of JRF?

 

[mark1969]

Mark, do you have any idea why the authorities have been so slow to confirm that the remains are those of JRF?

Maybe confirmation to his family has been done but to public still sealed ? .... or maybe the DNA data of dental records is not found ....or the case is still sealed because of other reasons such as military or criminal facts ?
From our side we only get LE confirmation about FJ 's remains not about those of JRF .... except by person who found remains of JRF

 

[Tiger Lily]

Wish I hadn't looked at that dead pig wearing jeans, sneakers, sweatshirt and hat.

Pigs are smarter than dogs, very sad that they are used for experiments and kept in horrid conditions in animal factories. Sad.

 

[whatsnext]

Pigs are smarter than dogs, very sad that they are used for experiments and kept in horrid conditions in animal factories. Sad.

Exactly, thank you.

 

[Ilex]

Mark 1969, I'm so sorry that this didn't have a better outcome. May all of her friends and family find some comfort in that she was found. So tragic all around.

 

[10ofRods]

As VI ...I really can confirm there were still alot of teeth in the skull of JRF that was found

Well, that's good news. That's very promising, in terms of finding usable DNA. Maybe the hold up is on the part of the Department of Defense. I have no idea how long it takes them to find and turn over DNA for a former military person. They may want a subpoena (and this is not, right now, a criminal case).

I am not a lawyer, but would appreciate others' perspectives on whether they know of subpoenas being issued for a non-criminal missing persons case.

It's possible, as you say, that even the teeth did not turn up sufficient DNA in a weathered skull. It must be so hard, waiting, to know what happened and piece it all together.

Dental records are used to match the shape of the teeth and utilize any possible dental work (fillings, etc). Dental records have no DNA associated with them. But if JRF's DNA is in a military database (which some here say is highly likely), then teeth can be one place that can yield a full profile (but even a partial profile would be enough, combined with the circumstantial evidence).

 

[mark1969]

Well, that's good news. That's very promising, in terms of finding usable DNA. Maybe the hold up is on the part of the Department of Defense. I have no idea how long it takes them to find and turn over DNA for a former military person. They may want a subpoena (and this is not, right now, a criminal case).

I am not a lawyer, but would appreciate others' perspectives on whether they know of subpoenas being issued for a non-criminal missing persons case.

It's possible, as you say, that even the teeth did not turn up sufficient DNA in a weathered skull. It must be so hard, waiting, to know what happened and piece it all together.

Dental records are used to match the shape of the teeth and utilize any possible dental work (fillings, etc). Dental records have no DNA associated with them. But if JRF's DNA is in a military database (which some here say is highly likely), then teeth can be one place that can yield a full profile (but even a partial profile would be enough, combined with the circumstantial evidence).

FJ was identified based on dental records with DNA data that have been put available to LE by family of FJ

 

[mst]

Can someone please show me the last known picture/video of the truck or the last official word on the trucks condition?

 

[mark1969]

Can someone please show me the last known picture/video of the truck or the last official word on the trucks condition?

'In late August/September, John's truck was located in a very remote area of the desert not utilized by camper/hikers/ or off-roaders. The vehicle had 3 flat tires and was not able to drive. There was nothing in the vehicle indicating they were planning on staying in the desert or camping. In early September, campers located human remains about 3 miles from the truck in a wash.'
This is the last info concerning the car we received from J.D. from SD sheriff.org on nov 6th

 

[10ofRods]

Can someone please show me the last known picture/video of the truck or the last official word on the trucks condition?

Last known picture is the one from the Thermal campground, it's in the missing person's poster that's been linked many times (the picture that Jin Fang took seems to have been prior to the 21st).

'In late August/September, John's truck was located in a very remote area of the desert not utilized by camper/hikers/ or off-roaders. The vehicle had 3 flat tires and was not able to drive. There was nothing in the vehicle indicating they were planning on staying in the desert or camping. In early September, campers located human remains about 3 miles from the truck in a wash.'
This is the last info concerning the car we received from J.D. from SD sheriff.org on nov 6th

WOW. So...your mind must be turning this over and over.

What could have happened? I believe @Herat had a theory that JRF drove his truck in a place he ought not to have gone and totaled it. Lost? Desperate? Angry? I find it hard to believe it was carelessness.

I suppose there's room for other theories, too. All of them confusing and grim.

How are you? This is hard information to take in.

 

[Megnut]

Last known picture is the one from the Thermal campground, it's in the missing person's poster that's been linked many times (the picture that Jin Fang took seems to have been prior to the 21st).


WOW. So...your mind must be turning this over and over.

What could have happened? I believe @Herat had a theory that JRF drove his truck in a place he ought not to have gone and totaled it. Lost? Desperate? Angry? I find it hard to believe it was carelessness.

I suppose there's room for other theories, too. All of them confusing and grim.

How are you? This is hard information to take in.

If tires weren't uninflated, might they have imploded in the heat?

 

[Herat]

"Nothing in the vehicle indicating they were planning on staying in the desert or camping."

I appreciate the comment, but has it been verified by LE or mainstream media?

It gives a very different flavor to the day, doesn't it? It makes it sound as if there was only a day drive planned, without preparations for an overnight stay. As Morongo Valley would be about 1.5-hour drive from Ocotillo Wells, that would be a feasible day trip from his trailer, and no one in established campgrounds appears to have found an abandoned campsite that could have been theirs in the immediate area of Borrego Springs or even Fish Creek. Bring some sandwiches, snacks, and a few drinks, not much more.

It could also be a nighttime drive planned for stargazing. Drive from Morongo Valley to the area near Ocotillo Wells to arrive in the dark or near-dusk as the temperatures cool down. Perhaps drive along Fish Creed Wash in the dark and end up near Harper Flat. But somehow, end up damaging the vehicle enough so that enough tires are flat and the vehicle undriveable. End up having to spend a day or two in the blazing heat, perhaps with only small provisions. Heat shock sets in, then heat stroke.

It's a plausible scenario, but I think awfully dangerous to plan a nighttime drive on a non-paved road with areas of deep sand and / or rocks, unless you have recently done the drive.

 

[Sundog]

"Nothing in the vehicle indicating they were planning on staying in the desert or camping."

I appreciate the comment, but has it been verified by LE or mainstream media?

It gives a very different flavor to the day, doesn't it? It makes it sound as if there was only a day drive planned, without preparations for an overnight stay. As Morongo Valley would be about 1.5-hour drive from Ocotillo Wells, that would be a feasible day trip from his trailer, and no one in established campgrounds appears to have found an abandoned campsite that could have been theirs in the immediate area of Borrego Springs or even Fish Creek. Bring some sandwiches, snacks, and a few drinks, not much more.

It could also be a nighttime drive planned for stargazing. Drive from Morongo Valley to the area near Ocotillo Wells to arrive in the dark or near-dusk as the temperatures cool down. Perhaps drive along Fish Creed Wash in the dark and end up near Harper Flat. But somehow, end up damaging the vehicle enough so that enough tires are flat and the vehicle undriveable. End up having to spend a day or two in the blazing heat, perhaps with only small provisions. Heat shock sets in, then heat stroke.

It's a plausible scenario, but I think awfully dangerous to plan a nighttime drive on a non-paved road with areas of deep sand and / or rocks, unless you have recently done the drive.

MOO, but I don't think it was a night time drive for stargazing, as beautiful as that might have been beneath a clear desert sky. It was posted earlier that FJ and JRF were discussing the possibility of a joint venture and bringing tour groups from the PRC to the California desert. If that is the case, then surely FJ would have wanted to see the desert park at A-B during the day time, to use this time well before they left for other areas, including possiblly the East Coast.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Of course we still don't know (and may never know) whether or not the truck was originally left in the location and condition in which it was eventually found. We may never know if the flooding in mid-August moved or damaged it.

Heatstroke can happen very quickly, and without warning. You can become drowsy and confused before you realize anything is wrong. And once you do become drowsy and confused, it becomes exponentially more difficult to get out of the situation you're in.

Fang and John might have only walked a few hundred yards away from the truck, but if heatstroke came on suddenly and they both became disoriented, it might still have been too far for them to get back to the safety of the air-conditioning.

 

[Sarah McGregor]

Fang and John might have only walked a few hundred yards away from the truck, but if heatstroke came on suddenly and they both became disoriented, it might still have been too far for them to get back to the safety of the air-conditioning.

They were found much farther than a few hundred yards away from the truck though. In this article from CBS8 originally published on October 17, the San Diego Sheriff's Department issued a statement that the "truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located." The statement was referring to the remains likely to be JRF's.

A subsequent CBS8 article (November 2) contained another statement from the SD Sheriff's Dept relating to the second set of remains later identified as Fang's, saying that "the remains were located in the general vicinity of Mr. Fitzpatrick's."

It is unclear how they ended up that far away from the truck. Lots of theories floating around here and elsewhere but not enough facts have been released to the public to be able to say definitively what happened. Yet.

 

[RickshawFan]

dbm

 

[RickshawFan]

They were found much farther than a few hundred yards away from the truck though. In this article from CBS8 originally published on October 17, the San Diego Sheriff's Department issued a statement that the "truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located." The statement was referring to the remains likely to be JRF's.

A subsequent CBS8 article (November 2) contained another statement from the SD Sheriff's Dept relating to the second set of remains later identified as Fang's, saying that "the remains were located in the general vicinity of Mr. Fitzpatrick's."

It is unclear how they ended up that far away from the truck. Lots of theories floating around here and elsewhere but not enough facts have been released to the public to be able to say definitively what happened. Yet.

Look at that crazy road! They wouldn't have to drive down that road to see exactly the same stars as if they were in those hills, so I don't see this as a star-gazing adventure.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

They were found much farther than a few hundred yards away from the truck though. In this article from CBS8 originally published on October 17, the San Diego Sheriff's Department issued a statement that the "truck was located in the Harper Flat’s area several miles from where the human remains were located." The statement was referring to the remains likely to be JRF's.

A subsequent CBS8 article (November 2) contained another statement from the SD Sheriff's Dept relating to the second set of remains later identified as Fang's, saying that "the remains were located in the general vicinity of Mr. Fitzpatrick's."

It is unclear how they ended up that far away from the truck. Lots of theories floating around here and elsewhere but not enough facts have been released to the public to be able to say definitively what happened. Yet.

I understand that the remains were found quite a long distance from the truck. What we don't know with certainty is where the truck or the remains were located before the flooding in mid-august.

It's possible that Fang and John both died much closer to the truck and the flooding moved them further away. It's also possible they both died almost exactly where they were found. The truck, likewise, might have been found almost exactly where they left it, or it too could have been carried somewhere else by the flooding.

As you say, we don't have enough information to be sure of anything.