Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ JohnRoot Fitzpatrick, 55, missing, 30 Jul ‘23

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Megnut said:
Because adults can go off grid. Without evidence of a crime, not much LE can do.

JMO
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That is true, however she didn't tell her family and friends she was going 'off-grid' for several weeks and would be uncontactable, did she?

She looks like a nicely dressed well-to-do Chinese lady and she doesn't really look like off-gridding or camping in remote desert areas for a month would be her thing.

I suspect she probably thought she'd be staying in hotels in the nearby towns and making day-trips in his pick-up truck? (Or even staying at his house.) Maybe an overnight camping trip at most!

MOO.
 
Have there been other cases where LE declares the missing person/people as "voluntarily missing" and then later changes it to actually MISSING missing? Weeks or months later?
 
sasha17 said:
Have there been other cases where LE declares the missing person/people as "voluntarily missing" and then later changes it to actually MISSING missing? Weeks or months later?
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Yes, IME frequently. Sometimes right up until an arrest, months and years later. In many cases its not what LE says as much as what LE is doing that telegraphs their intention -- might not declare a POI but clearly they're hot after one. This case however feels different. Very quiet. But that could be a function of pressure. Her family is overseas ... and I don't think we've heard anything from his camp. Without an indication of foul play, I don't know what LE can investigate...

Perhaps that'll change if she misses her return date...

I lean toward an unfortunate accident, upturned and invisible from any roadway...

Jmo
 
So for ya'll, would Occam's razor alter depending on which circumstances are at play here?
 
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Facts and figures .... where do you go camping at 22pm and later .... nearby 29 palms marine base, if you tell the outside world that you are now (22pm) going to that "camping" place and then disappear from the radar ?
 
mark1969 said:
Facts and figures .... where do you go camping at 22pm and later .... nearby 29 palms marine base, if you tell the outside world that you are now (22pm) going to that "camping" place and then disappear from the radar ?
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Was John Root in the marines himself?

Or maybe he has buddies at this base?
Perhaps he frequents bars that have servicemen from there.....?
 
mark1969 said:
Did somebody (such as police) also contacted Toyota , to open the tracing system of the car to check where the blue Toyota Tacoma with a California license plate 24478S1 could be ?
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They don't do that with voluntarily missing people.

Adults who want to go off by themselves and be out of touch cannot be spied on by LE. Something has to trigger such a move (and a court order is needed). Although, if family members (of JRF) could contact Toyota and had enough information about the car and JRF has their name on his account, then that family member could get the info.

I doubt that JRF has anyone else's name on his account though (most people don't, unless it's a co-owner of the car).

Ground searches over such a vast area cannot be organized, especially in the desert but even if elsewhere. Some location must anchor the search - and in this case, that would be the location of the truck. I'm guessing that all rangers on public land know about this case and are dutifully keeping an eye out - but there are tons and tons of dirt/sand roads throughout the region, some with dispersed camping. Since there's virtually no media coverage, very few people would be looking for that truck.

In the case of Barbara Thomas (who was found a couple of miles away from where she disappeared in the Mojave Preserve), the searchers searched 1 square mile from the last point where she was seen, and then about half a mile down the road where her RV was parked (they didn't even go off the road). No SARS crew wants their members to get lost. So the search lasted a few hours, had 2 sniffer dogs (who couldn't find a trail) and then it was over. I contacted one of the members with a tip (via then-Twitter) and was told that SARS volunteers will be kicked off the team if they take individual actions to search that are not formally approved (and accompanied by) Sheriff's personnel. This was in San Bernardino County.

Someday, the truck should be found - and then the search can begin.

As to Occam's razor, my mind goes to wilderness misadventure when two people are known to be driving around in the desert. Neither person in this couple decided to leave word with family or friends about their travel plans (apparently). Which means, to me, they were not mentally prepared for a long hike or expedition. Going off the road into a ravine comes to mind.

I think all of us are troubled by JRF's ping in Julian - and his disappearance thereafter, as it seemed he was driving south and Fang's phone had stopped contacting cell towers...3 days before? 2 days? Can't recall.

IMO
 
10ofRods said:
They don't do that with voluntarily missing people.

Adults who want to go off by themselves and be out of touch cannot be spied on by LE. Something has to trigger such a move (and a court order is needed). Although, if family members (of JRF) could contact Toyota and had enough information about the car and JRF has their name on his account, then that family member could get the info.

I doubt that JRF has anyone else's name on his account though (most people don't, unless it's a co-owner of the car).

Ground searches over such a vast area cannot be organized, especially in the desert but even if elsewhere. Some location must anchor the search - and in this case, that would be the location of the truck. I'm guessing that all rangers on public land know about this case and are dutifully keeping an eye out - but there are tons and tons of dirt/sand roads throughout the region, some with dispersed camping. Since there's virtually no media coverage, very few people would be looking for that truck.

In the case of Barbara Thomas (who was found a couple of miles away from where she disappeared in the Mojave Preserve), the searchers searched 1 square mile from the last point where she was seen, and then about half a mile down the road where her RV was parked (they didn't even go off the road). No SARS crew wants their members to get lost. So the search lasted a few hours, had 2 sniffer dogs (who couldn't find a trail) and then it was over. I contacted one of the members with a tip (via then-Twitter) and was told that SARS volunteers will be kicked off the team if they take individual actions to search that are not formally approved (and accompanied by) Sheriff's personnel. This was in San Bernardino County.

Someday, the truck should be found - and then the search can begin.

As to Occam's razor, my mind goes to wilderness misadventure when two people are known to be driving around in the desert. Neither person in this couple decided to leave word with family or friends about their travel plans (apparently). Which means, to me, they were not mentally prepared for a long hike or expedition. Going off the road into a ravine comes to mind.

I think all of us are troubled by JRF's ping in Julian - and his disappearance thereafter, as it seemed he was driving south and Fang's phone had stopped contacting cell towers...3 days before? 2 days? Can't recall.

IMO
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Perfect summary
 
tarabull said:
Yesterday I stumbled upon this road...and it's bugging me FWIW

www.dangerousroads.org

Old Dale Road is an old mining road in Joshua Tree NP

Old Dale Road is a scenic drive located in Joshua Tree National P
www.dangerousroads.org www.dangerousroads.org
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Bugging you because…..?
If you’re thinking something bad happened there for Fang and JRF, I think it is thought they went to the Old Dale Rd area before the Twentynine Palms (Adobe Rd) late night video.

vls12345 said:
Are there any (volunteer or private) groups using drones to help search for missing people? Maybe that would be an option at some point to help get a view of some of these vast, inhospitable areas.

MOO.
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That’s a great idea.
I guess it’s possible to arrange it remotely from China, but if Fang’s family members were able to get to California it would really help move things along, I feel.
 
I am wondering if JF's foreign national status has something to do with the voluntarily missing classification, or if SBSO just has stricter protocols than other agencies. We have seen many times a person's failure to check in/inability to ping phone be sufficient evidence to initiate a search for them.

Also, IMO, the initial backlash the family received for starting a (apparently asking for money is looked down upon in their culture) made them turn their efforts private. If you noticed the family's updates stopped. <modsnip: not an approved source> JMOO but I think they hired a private investigator and are conducting their own search/investigation out of the public eye.
 
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megs1477 said:
I am wondering if JF's foreign national status has something to do with the voluntarily missing classification, or if SBSO just has stricter protocols than other agencies. We have seen many times a person's failure to check in/inability to ping phone be sufficient evidence to initiate a search for them.

Also, IMO, the initial backlash the family received for starting a (apparently asking for money is looked down upon in their culture) made them turn their efforts private. If you noticed the family's updates stopped. <modsnip>JMOO but I think they hired a private investigator and are conducting their own search/investigation out of the public eye.
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I hope that's the case, that they have hired a private investigator to see what they can find out and maybe then turn over some information to LE if warranted.
 
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I thought he didn't have 4WD - as far as I can tell, his tailgate doesn't have the Toyota 4WD badge and it's not an aftermarket option.

As for Old Dale Road, people (like myself and husband) like to go out and do surface "archaeology," looking at the remnants of mining operations, thinking about what it took to find whatever it was that was mined, how long things have lasted and what has decomposed. We haven't been on that exact road, and we prefer roads like that in NFs rather than NP's, but I love to off road. Old Dale Road is not recommended for low clearance/non-4WD vehicles. He does have fairly high clearance in that truck.

<modsnip: referenced post was removed>

IMO.
 
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Megnut said:
Yes, IME frequently. Sometimes right up until an arrest, months and years later. In many cases its not what LE says as much as what LE is doing that telegraphs their intention -- might not declare a POI but clearly they're hot after one. This case however feels different. Very quiet. But that could be a function of pressure. Her family is overseas ... and I don't think we've heard anything from his camp. Without an indication of foul play, I don't know what LE can investigate...

Perhaps that'll change if she misses her return date...

I lean toward an unfortunate accident, upturned and invisible from any roadway...

Jmo
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I agree. For example, the McStays. Classed as voluntarily missing for years until their bodies accidentally found.

I agree that LE can't announce they suspect foul play or get search warrants without probable cause - ie concrete evidence - however they can be conducting interviews and investigating rumours on the downlow.

LE do not share everything with the public about a current case. I just noticed a case last week where the locals kept searching for a woman for a month, LE reporting they had no information, when actually they had found the body the day after she went missing, and were tracking the perp. But, IMO, didn't want to warn him and pretended they hadn't found her. Also, because of the condition of the remains, proof of identity wasn't quick.

Not saying that's true here, but I don't assume I know what LE are or aren't doing.

JMO
 
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