GUILTY CA - Gregory Haidl, Kyle Nachreiner & Keith Spann for gang rape, Corona de Mar, 2002

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I was in California last week taking my kids to Disneyland. Mr. Jubie and I took a day and rented a car to hit a few beaches. Laguna, by far, is MEGA moneyland but Newport wasn't far behind. I was amazed by some of the houses and after only a few hours on the beach you get the picture. You are either rich or poor. Alot of rich little boys driving very expensive cars and surfing all day (during the week) !!

I'm not sure how to convey the feeling both My husband and I got without sounding prejudice... I AM NOT! We commented to eachother how sad it was to see the rich kids were mostly white and the kids that worked the shops etc were mostly either Latino or Mexican. We live in a fairly nice community and we don't have that here so it did leave quite an impression of a division. We were in Newport for about 7-8 hours but when I read this story and read how the father descibed her I could just see what he was thinking. She meant nothing to these boys, she was worhtless trash.

This is a lesson to me as a mother of a little girl to make sure I instill in her self worth and value and that drugs and alcohol can and DO lead to terrible situations. How sad, this girl craved attention so much she resorted to putting herself in such a dangerous situation. Those little scumbags deserve to be bent over a chair and have Bubba get his camera ready!


Jubie
 
Jubie I did not think your comments were prejudiced regarding the "rich" kids. I live about 15 minutes from Laguna and it is a fact that a lot of these kids have too much money and too much time on their hands, and not enough supervision. They also get over a lot and I feel they think Mommy and Daddy will buy them out of trouble or pull the necessary strings. A friend of mine's cousin is the daughter of a previous city official and would always carry his business card, which she claims was very effective when pulled over for violations, including driving under the influence. Anyway, I am very curious to see what happens in this case.
 
Snorky,

Thanks for your response. WOW 15 minutes from Laguna, you are sooo lucky. I could have stayed there all day and watched those waves, my 11 yr old son and my hubby had a blast body surfing. Unfortunately we spent most of the day at Newport before driving down to Laguna before heading back up to Disneyland. We live near Whiterock Beach in British Columbia but it's a completely different type of beach.


Jubie
 
I don't understand why this young mans father is upset about him going to prison, after all, he'll just be housed there with all the other sweet innocent men who only did a "foolish" thing!

This may have been avoided if some were to have been taught about taking responsibility at an earlier age.
 
Old Broad said:
I don't understand why this young mans father is upset about him going to prison, after all, he'll just be housed there with all the other sweet innocent men who only did a "foolish" thing!

This may have been avoided if some were to have been taught about taking responsibility at an earlier age.
Exactly!:clap: And he will be protected and cared for by the prison gaurds too! :D
 
Date rape drug scenario suggested, but "Tests of the girl's vomit showed no signs of drugs" makes me question the suggestion:

Videotaped evidence at the heart of a high-profile gang-rape case is consistent with the 16-year-old alleged victim's being under the influence of a date-rape drug, a prosecution expert testified Monday.

Attorneys representing three young men accused in the case, including the son of a top Orange County sheriff's official, have argued that the girl was a willing participant in the encounter. A videotape made by a defendant shows her apparently unconscious and unresponsive as a pool cue and other objects are inserted into her body.

But drug consultant Trinka Porrata, a former Los Angeles police officer who helped draft legislation to make substances such as Ecstasy illegal, said the girl appeared not only unconscious but also drugged. Prosecutors have contended that the girl was given the "date rape" drug gamma hydroxybutyrate — known as GHB — or a similar substance, such as sleeping pills.

Porrata stopped and started the tape as she explained her conclusion that the girl's actions show that she had been rendered unconscious.

"Her movements are consistent with somebody under the influence of GHB," Porrata said. -->>

The defense lawyers attacked Porrata's credibility, saying that because she is not a drug recognition expert qualified to testify about the effects of a range of substances, she doesn't have the ability to recognize whether the girl had been drugged based on viewing the video.

They said that the girl, called Jane Doe in court proceedings, was more likely faking unconsciousness or suffering from a medical condition that caused her to display that behavior. Tests of the girl's vomit showed no signs of drugs, said Gregory Haidl's lead attorney, Joseph G. Cavallo.
--->>

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la-me-haidl18may18,1,4626765.story?coll=la-news-state
 
I wonder if they are waiting for blood tests to come back? I have no idea how long these types of drugs remain in the system and how long after she woke up that tests were taken. Does anyone know at what time she vomitted? Something made her ill but maybe it was just alcohol.
 
Date-Rape Drug Scenario Raised at Trial
Haidl video indicates the girl was drugged, an expert testifies. Evidence is lacking, defense says.

By Claire Luna, Times Staff Writer

Videotaped evidence at the heart of a high-profile gang-rape case is consistent with the 16-year-old alleged victim's being under the influence of a date-rape drug, a prosecution expert testified Monday.

Attorneys representing three young men accused in the case, including the son of a top Orange County sheriff's official, have argued that the girl was a willing participant in the encounter. A videotape made by a defendant shows her apparently unconscious and unresponsive as a pool cue and other objects are inserted into her body.

But drug consultant Trinka Porrata, a former Los Angeles police officer who helped draft legislation to make substances such as Ecstasy illegal, said the girl appeared not only unconscious but also drugged. Prosecutors have contended that the girl was given the "date rape" drug gamma hydroxybutyrate — known as GHB — or a similar substance, such as sleeping pills.

Porrata stopped and started the tape as she explained her conclusion that the girl's actions show that she had been rendered unconscious.

"Her movements are consistent with somebody under the influence of GHB," Porrata said.

Facing rape charges that could send them to prison for 55 years each are Gregory Scott Haidl, 18, Kyle Joseph Nachreiner, 19, and Keith James Spann, 19, who all lived in Rancho Cucamonga when they were charged with the crime two years ago.

The encounter took place in the garage of Assistant Sheriff Don Haidl's Corona del Mar home. The elder Haidl was not home at the time.

The defense lawyers attacked Porrata's credibility, saying that because she is not a drug recognition expert qualified to testify about the effects of a range of substances, she doesn't have the ability to recognize whether the girl had been drugged based on viewing the video.

They said that the girl, called Jane Doe in court proceedings, was more likely faking unconsciousness or suffering from a medical condition that caused her to display that behavior. Tests of the girl's vomit showed no signs of drugs, said Gregory Haidl's lead attorney, Joseph G. Cavallo.

"Porrata was called to testify to prejudice the jury," Cavallo said after testimony ended for the day. "There are no toxicological findings to corroborate her observations."

The witness was on the stand the entire day, including about half an hour to review the video with the jurors. The public is not allowed to see the footage, which Gregory Haidl recorded.

Supporting the drug theory is that the tape shows the girl apparently unconscious only eight minutes after she was pictured awake and alert, Porrata said.

That, along with the fact that the girl is shown consuming a comparatively modest amount of alcohol, led the expert to conclude that her behavior was consistent with having been given GHB.

Later, as two of the boys are having sex with her on a white wicker couch, the girl shows little reaction, Porrata said.

"She's being jostled and jiggled around as opposed to [making] any deliberate movements," the witness said. "Her head is literally flopping back and forth and side to side, which is also consistent with GHB."

"What's significant here is the lack of participation on her part," she said. Later, Jane Doe starts to roll over and brings her arms to her chest when one of the boys pinches her, the witness said. This also is consistent with GHB, which produces unconsciousness but does not block pain, she said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la-me-haidl18may18,1,4626765.story?coll=la-news-state

I hope that I didn't post too much! (I am not quite clear about how much is OK to post in reference to the copyright laws). There are still a few paragraphs left that I didn't post. I've seen other posts where everything was posted except for the last line, so I assume that I left out more than enough. If not, please let me know!!! Thanks.

Sky

The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)

All posts by Sky are posted as MY OPINION!!
 
By Ben Fox
Associated Press

SANTA ANA -- The defense in a high-profile teen gang-rape trial on Wednesday sought to discredit the accuser, focusing on alleged inconsistencies in her testimony and releasing notes and transcripts in which her friends assert that she didn't want the three defendants prosecuted.

The alleged victim, now 18, took the stand for a second day and faced questioning for the first time by the defense, which began by playing a videotape of her initial interview with Newport Beach police in July 2002.

In the interview, a detective asked the teen how she felt. "I'm scared,' she replied, her voice breaking.

But the defense attempted to portray a starkly different image of the young woman as someone who wanted to be a *advertiser censored* star and pretended to be unconscious in a videotape of the alleged assault by three teens, including the son of a wealthy Orange County assistant sheriff, Don Haidl, on a pool table in a Newport Beach home.

Friends of the victim, whose name has been withheld, told a private investigator for the defense that the teen was promiscuous and would have agreed to the videotaped sex acts, which included use of a pool cue and drink bottle, according to a transcript of an interview released Wednesday by the defense.

"She made references, saying things like ... I don't know why they drugged me because I would probably let them do it anyway, with my consent, without drugs,' Jenna Stroh reportedly told the private investigator about five weeks after the alleged rape.

The friends, who are also friendly with the accused teens and are expected to be called as witnesses, said the alleged victim did not want the case to be prosecuted and only cooperated because of pressure from authorities and her parents, according to interview notes taken by the private detective.

In testimony for the prosecution, the alleged victim said Wednesday that she felt pressure from her friends to drop the case.

"I became the outcast,' she said. "My friends stopped talking to me.'

http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~2159004,00.html

I hope that I didn't post too much! (I am not quite clear about how much is OK to post in reference to the copyright laws). There are still a few paragraphs left that I didn't post. I've seen other posts where everything was posted except for the last line, so I assume that I left out more than enough. If not, please let me know!!! Thanks.

Sky

The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)

All posts by Sky are posted as MY OPINION!!
 
May 20, 2004


ORANGE COUNTY
Gang-Rape Testimony Challenged
The defense targets inconsistencies in a woman's account of an alleged assault by three teens at the home of an O.C. sheriff's official.

By H.G. Reza, Times Staff Writer

Picking away at inconsistencies, defense attorneys challenged the credibility of a young woman who prosecutors say was gang-raped by three teenagers in the Corona del Mar home of a top Orange County sheriff's official.

The 18-year-old woman, called Jane Doe in court proceedings, seemed unflappable during an aggressive cross-examination by Joseph Cavallo, one of the attorneys representing Gregory Haidl.

Haidl, 18, Keith James Spann and Kyle Nachreiner, both 19, each face up to 55 years in prison if convicted in the nearly 2-year-old incident.

While she maintained her composure, the woman's testimony appeared to conflict with a statement she gave to Newport Beach detectives during a videotaped meeting with investigators several days after the alleged assault on July 6, 2002.

Two days before the incident, the woman has testified, she and a group of girls visited Haidl at the Corona del Mar home of his father, Assistant Sheriff Donald Haidl. During that visit, she said, she had consensual sex with Gregory Haidl and her boyfriend, Spann, and spent the night with Spann in Gregory Haidl's bedroom.

In the interview with Newport Beach detectives, the woman said she was not drunk that day. But under questioning by Cavallo, she said she was intoxicated the night she had sex with Haidl and Spann.

The woman testified Tuesday that Donald Haidl and his wife were at the house while she and the others drank alcohol, smoked marijuana and had sex. The defense appeared to be zeroing in on inconsistencies in her testimony or her interviews with police before questioning her about the crucial evidence in the case: a videotape of the three defendants having sex with the woman.

Prosecutors maintain that the woman — who was 16 at the time — was drugged and had slipped into unconsciousness when the youths allegedly raped and sexually assaulted her with items including a pool cue, a juice bottle and a lighted cigarette.

The defense contends that the woman was not unconscious but a willing participant. One of Gregory Haidl's defense attorneys said that the woman was aware she was being videotaped.

On Wednesday, Cavallo tried to contradict the woman's testimony by establishing that she had allowed herself to be videotaped during an earlier sexual encounter with Spann.

In testimony Tuesday, the woman said she did not know at first that Spann was videotaping their intimate moment, which took place June 30, 2002, in the bedroom of her girlfriend's mother. She said the room was dark, and that she noticed the camera only when her arm brushed against it and she saw a green light, indicating that it was recording. She said she asked Spann to turn it off.

But after the jury was excused for the day, Cavallo told Superior Court Judge Francisco P. Briseño that he wanted to play that video in court today to show that there was enough light in the bedroom to make the camera clearly visible, and that she never asked Spann to turn the camera off.

Cavallo also hammered away at the woman's credibility by getting her to acknowledge that she lied to her parents about her trips to the Haidls' house. On the night of the alleged assault, she told her mother she was staying at a girlfriend's house, and the two planned to visit Six Flags Magic Mountain amusement park in the morning.

The woman also said in court Tuesday that she suffered injuries when she was allegedly sodomized with the objects. But she told Cavallo and Deputy Dist. Atty. Dan Hess on Wednesday that she was not completely honest with nurses who examined her twice shortly after the incident. She also acknowledged that she did not tell the prosecution about the injuries until this month.

The revelation caused defense attorneys — who said the prosecution did not quickly share the information about the injuries with the defense — to threaten to file a motion for a mistrial today. Peter Scalisi, another of Gregory Haidl's lawyers, said the defense first learned about the injuries during the woman's testimony Tuesday.

In her testimony, the young woman revealed details about a troubled life that included heavy drinking from age 15, drug abuse and frequent lying to her parents.

In the interview with Newport Beach police, she partly blamed herself for the incident. "I feel that I antagonized it, even though I was passed out," she said.

After initially asking authorities not to prosecute the alleged attackers, the woman said she changed her mind after she learned from news reports what had allegedly happened to her. "It was wrong," she said.

She told detectives she did not remember lying on the pool table where the alleged attack occurred. She also said she did not remember leaving the couch near the pool table until the next morning, when Spann woke her up. Prosecutors said she was incapacitated by a date-rape drug.

During an interview shortly after the incident, a Newport Beach detective asked: "What if I told you [that] on the night [in question] Spann had sex with you and Nachreiner had sex with you, and they all inserted things in your vagina?"

"I don't remember anything. I don't remember anyone touching me," she replied.

The detective asked if she was surprised by anything police told her about what occurred. "Halfway yes, halfway no," she said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-haidl20may20,1,6730608.story?coll=la-headlines-california

I hope that I didn't post too much! (I am not quite clear about how much is OK to post in reference to the copyright laws). There are still a few paragraphs left that I didn't post. I've seen other posts where everything was posted except for the last line, so I assume that I left out more than enough. If not, please let me know!!! Thanks.

Sky

The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)

All posts by Sky are posted as MY OPINION!!
 
Sky, thanks for the update. This is such a sad, disturbing case for all involved.
 
Sounds like a personal question to me.

For the record, the question was in regards to diameter and not length.

This case has nothing but ugly on both sides.
 
The victim in this case fascinates me. I wonder how a young girl grows up to think that she "owes" anyone sex. I am referring to one of her statements as to why she had sex with two boys in one day. What the hell was going on in her life? I hope she can overcome everything in her past and ends up happy and healthy.

The boys in this case make me sick to my stomach.
 
It really goes from bad to worse doesn't it?

How did this girl get so out of control so young???, what are her parents doing to get her life back together, salvage and repair.

These boys, they had no respect for her, she was just an object to be used... do they feel this way about other girls?? or was it just her for some reason.. it is like they thought of her as less than human ~ such a disturbing case.. all these young lives ruined.
 
"She made references, saying things like ... I don't know why they drugged me because I would probably let them do it anyway, with my consent, without drugs,' Jenna Stroh reportedly told the private investigator about five weeks after the alleged rape.

The friends, who are also friendly with the accused teens and are expected to be called as witnesses, said the alleged victim did not want the case to be prosecuted and only cooperated because of pressure from authorities and her parents, according to interview notes taken by the private detective.

In testimony for the prosecution, the alleged victim said Wednesday that she felt pressure from her friends to drop the case.

"I became the outcast,' she said. "My friends stopped talking to me.'

This is so uncomfortably familiar to me because of what happened to my daughter and her friend last December that it brings everything back... including the outrage and the anger. I'd like to beat these boys senseless myself... AND her so called friends.

The defense is paid to make this girl appear to be the bad guy... but the public in general should be educated about several facts that I never knew until it happened to our family.

Girls between the ages of 12-17 are the most victimized age group for sexual crimes in the nation... and the least reported. When sexual assault is reported for girls in this age group, they are the most likely victims to be disbelieved, and the most likely to be dissuaded from pressing charges by law enforcement (which is completely against the federal laws that govern all LE on this issue). Even when LE does not actively dissuade the victim from pressing charges, studies have shown that the cases receive little priority if the attacker is known to the victim and not a primary caregiver.

If the attacker is also a juvenile, the victim and her parents are often told that no crime has taken place or that no prosecution for the crime is possible. When both victim and attacker are juveniles that know each other and attend the same school, victims often report pressure, and even threats, to drop any complaint or face being ostracized by their peers. The attackers, on the other hand, face no such shunning. In fact the female peers (friends??) of the victim are more likely to blame the victim for their own fate than to blame the attacker. Those that have agreed to participate in studies have expressed a fear of also being an outcast if they support their victimized friend(s).

Juvenile victims of sexual assault are more likely to attempt suicide, become promiscuous, suffer severe depression, and lose interest in grades or extra curricular activities. Though this was once thought to be totally due to post traumatic stress from the event... studies of the age group revealed that the problems were more related to society's failure to acknowledge or seek justice for them, than it had to do with the sexual assault itself.
 
It all sounds so horrible. I hope all these young people, regardless of the outcome of the trial, will be able to recover from what has happened, adopt some values that will see them through the rest of their lives, and make some serious changes in how they think & act.
 
I agree LP. I think teenage boys are being given the wrong messages from popular music and the internet etc. that treating women as objects is not only acceptable, but normal. Add to that a troubled girl who apparently has had issues in the past and has been known to use sexuality to gain attention or companionship... and parents that don't seem to be supervising any of these kids closely at such young ages... and you have a recipe for tragedy.

As for the date rape drug... I thought the general consensus was that this drug often does not show up in tests of bodily fluids or blood because it is comprised essentially of elements found in the body normally.
 

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