CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[Rotten apple]

Nope my friends and I that have children weren’t stingy and selfish. That’s just as bad as parents who drag their little children into bars. Either don’t go or leave them with family or a sitter. If those women wanted to do that stuff should have left the kids with the their friends maybe spend the night at their houses but oh that’s right I forgot these women didn’t let them have friends. I bet they never saw a movie at a theater their whole lives.

How does taking your kids to a bar for dinner relate to this? I'm confused.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[human]

To be clear, there is no requirement for "immersion" in a birth culture, which would be extremely counterproductive and dysfunctional for an internationally adopted child.

To the same ends, it is highly discouraged to enroll an internationally adopted school aged child in an "immersion" language program of their birth language, unless they were adopted under the age of 1 or 2 (which almost no internationally kids are, for many reasons). English immersion is what internationally adopted kids need as a primary language during their first 5 years post adoption, with addition of the birth language (or other world language) later on when fully fluent in English.

The requirements/ suggestions for cultural contact with a birth culture can vary depending on what is available geographically, also. The goal is to incorporate some aspects/ contact of the child's birth culture on a regular basis, until the child is at an age to choose/ refuse.

I am confused. Are the children required to have birth culture relevance or not?

My neices were adopted at age 4 and six and had zero problem learning
English.

There are studies that show the more languages one knows, the higher the IQ.

So if immersion is not a requirement, it sure should be for white parents who adopt children who are not white.

No one knows if one is Swedish or Norwegian, but it is obvious when one is not white in the culture of the US.

 

[Sleuth99]

The exploitation of the images of kids. I have been thinking a lot about this... Discussions about FB, our image only conscious SM society. The celebrities who make a gazillion dollars on nothing but image and the exploitation of their kids because after all, they are truly unaware they have gone global or what that means.

Many have expressed discomfort with the famous 2014 viral hug image and the usury of Devonte, free hugs slung around his neck... Did it serve someone else's image (J&S) of themselves, projected onto a community that viewed them (J&S) in the image they wanted, actively sought to project? Devonte was 11 years old when that hugs photo was taken.

Were these kids rolled out, at dress up costumed events, and exploited in film, music videos, and images that served more an image of two women that hid cruelty, without question. Why? Hindsight, in this case is very cruel. And, their community may or may not be jolted into self reflection. But it begs the Q; would they (J&S) have projected the same facade if they never adopted children? Would they have stood out like they did? No, I don't think so.

Are there fallacies as factors in the underlying truths that get lost in translation?

It struck me that I have a problem with their moniker - The Hart Tribe. But that's just me.

I also have a problem with the Free Hugs as a movement. I have never seen it, nor can I imagine it ever flying in my east coast world...

Without knowing these women's childhood, upbringing, their neighborhoods, but knowing they were estranged from their families, I speculate their choices seem to reflect little experience with the many dynamics they were taking on. Or, worse yet, a chip on their shoulder experience, one that only served as a continuation of anger & rage behind the facade.

There have been so many tragic injustices in history, but in modern times, this is one of the most complex tragedies I have ever come to know. And six beautiful kids paid the price.

And how did the perhaps the exploitation of these children's images orbiting the earth factor into their destiny, unbeknownst to them? And tragically, how did one famous photograph factor into the conscious, or subconscious decision to make a run from the law and silence six beautiful souls?

You would think with a last name like "Hart" and their activities that "family" would be used instead of tribe. The history of the word and it's usage is degrading and ahistorical.


MOO*

 

[Sleuth99]

Here's a perfect example of exploiting these kids:

View attachment 132942

Saw your response. I agree...just didn't want to be the one to say it


MOO*

 

[K_Z]

Those are good ideas. It would make it so only the rich can adopt because of the escrow fund.

I have a friend who taught in a residential treatment center for kids age 5-14? I am not sure of the top age. She said it was filled with children from failed adoptions.

I would add that if the parents are not the same background of the child, there would have to be a plan on how to provide appropriate cultural immersio and to have classes for the parents and child to learn how to deal with the issues of being non white if the child is going to a white area.

BBM for focus.

The escrow fund is set up and maintained by the adoption agency, not the adoptive parents, so I don't know what being "wealthy" has to do with anything. Most of the people I know who have adopted internationally are of modest to middle class means, and engage in fundraising efforts to obtain the funds needed. Or take on extra part time jobs, increase savings, forego vacations, etc.

The perception that only "wealthy" families adopt internationally is a pervasive stereotype that is not grounded in fact. Families are required to be financially stable. That includes families of many levels of income.

It's tremendously unwise for families who are not financially stable, have uncertain income streams, or who have significant debt, to take on a situation adopting a child/ children. Why would we want people who cannot financially manage their existing obligations to take on more stress and debt? How would that benefit a child from a difficult background?? It's that kind of domestic family stress that can lead to what we may euphemistically call "bad outcomes". You need more than love and fresh air to be an effective adoptive parent.

We see all the mistakes and errors in judgement that the Hart women made in hindsight. We need to be much, much more proactive with domestic adoptions of older kids, groups of siblings, and kids with extremely traumatic backgrounds.

 

[liltexans]

Here's a perfect example of exploiting these kids:

View attachment 132942

Please provide the link to this photo as required by TOS.

 

[Whiteorchids]

How does taking your kids to a bar for dinner relate to this? I'm confused.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That it’s no place for little kids and you would call a babysitter or stay at a friends house if you and your friends are going to sit in a bar drinking alcoholic beverages. A bar is not a kid friendly area like at a family dining restaurant. Hippy festivals have lots of drugs and half naked people I know people that have gone and brought back photos. JMO

 

[Aescwynn]

I'm going to let it be known here that in general, I have no problem at all with people taking kids to these festivals as long as they parent appropriately. They are set up for family camping and kids activities. Most people, read not Jen and Sarah Hart, wouldn't limit their children's entire social interactions to the time spent at these festivals. Most people allow their children to leave the house and have friends when they're not at a hippie festival.

 

[human]

BBM for focus.

The escrow fund is set up and maintained by the adoption agency, not the adoptive parents, so I don't know what being "wealthy" has to do with anything. Most of the people I know who have adopted internationally are of modest to middle class means, and engage in fundraising efforts to obtain the funds needed. Or take on extra part time jobs, increase savings, forego vacations, etc.

The perception that only "wealthy" families adopt internationally is a pervasive stereotype that is not grounded in fact. Families are required to be financially stable. That includes families of many levels of income.

It's tremendously unwise for families who are not financially stable, have uncertain income streams, or who have significant debt, to take on a situation adopting a child/ children. Why would we want people who cannot financially manage their existing obligations to take on more stress and debt? How would that benefit a child from a difficult background?? It's that kind of domestic family stress that can lead to what we may euphemistically call "bad outcomes". You need more than love and fresh air to be an effective adoptive parent.

We see all the mistakes and errors in judgement that the Hart women made in hindsight. We need to be much, much more proactive with domestic adoptions of older kids, groups of siblings, and kids with extremely traumatic backgrounds.

Where is the money coming from for the escrow fund?

My sister had to pay thousands for her international adoptions. I have never seen fundraisers for adoption where I lived in MN.

 

[Sleuth99]

It's possible that those women were so culturally naive that they thought that this would be a fun way for the kids to learn about their native continent, or some such embarrassing rubbish as that (and yes I shuddered as I typed that, but there really are people out there like that)

No... no and more no. This was dehumanizing like many other things they did.


MOO*

 

[Sleuth99]

And let's note that on the "free hugs" apostolate, the women did not participate. Yes, in this "tribe", where they all seemed to share everything, including the children partaking in the parents political interests, only the incomparably photogenic, charismatic, vivacious and all-together charming Devonte was subjected to be embraced by every being who asked.

Folks, I can't help it. A spade is a spade is a spade. These were despicable women who used their adopted children as props for their own, narcissistic, agenda: their image. When it came crashing down around their ears, they no longer had need for said props or even life itself.

Anyone dig deep enough to see if they tried to this stuff to the "Lee" child? Please disregard if it violates TOS or ethics. I'm interested in seeing comparisons since they took Lee on camping trips etc


MOO*

 

[Aescwynn]

No... no and more no. This was dehumanizing like many other things they did.


MOO*

I'm not excusing them for it. Just pointing out that there are people out there who think like that. A lot of people who think like that. And don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I'm going to let it be known here that in general, I have no problem at all with people taking kids to these festivals as long as they parent appropriately. They are set up for family camping and kids activities. Most people, read not Jen and Sarah Hart, wouldn't limit their children's entire social interactions to the time spent at these festivals. Most people allow their children to leave the house and have friends when they're not at a hippie festival.

Sure as long as people aren’t getting high doing drugs, getting rowdy where cops are arresting people and no half naked people with their breast, bare rear ends and genatalia are exposed. Kids still have eyes.

 

[Whiteorchids]

No... no and more no. This was dehumanizing like many other things they did.


MOO*

Agree.

 

[gcharlie]

Credibitlity, schmedibility. Or Jen the Queen of BS.

Creating a narrative for the world on SM.

Remember the story that recently came to light about Jen and the kids being in a rollover accident the after Christmas while traveling to see Sarah in Oregon?

"On at least one occasion, Jennifer Hart spoke of the problems she dealt with in Alexandria with total strangers.

"She shared the struggles of living there," said Brian Lee, who lives in Garrison, North Dakota.

Lee and his wife met Jennifer Hart and all six kids the day after Christmas in 2012 while driving through Montana. Jennifer and the children had just been in a roll-over accident in their GMC Yukon along an icy stretch near Missoula.

Lee learned the Harts, whom they met in a gas station, were heading to Oregon to see Sarah, who had recently moved here to look for work.

He and his wife rented a trailer and gave the family a ride to Spokane. Jennifer Hart spoke for nearly the entire three-hour drive, he said.

"She said they needed a fresh, new start," Lee told The Oregonian/OregonLive." source: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ons-missed-signals-preceded-deaths/499212002/

Well, this got me to thinking, with some other posting I had seen from both Sarah and Jen. The dates just don't jive.

<modsnip>

Jen posted on her FB page on Jan 1, 2013 telling her story of this event. According to her post, she left MN on December 22 and the rollover happened on December 23. But Sarah had already posted screenshots of the kids on the beach in Oregon days before. Oopsie.

Something tells me Brian and Sarah Lee are fictitious friends of the Harts.

Tryng to get screenshots of Jen's Xmas miracle to post.

 

[K_Z]

I am confused. Are the children required to have birth culture relevance or not?

My neices were adopted at age 4 and six and had zero problem learning
English.

There are studies that show the more languages one knows, the higher the IQ.

So if immersion is not a requirement, it sure should be for white parents who adopt children who are not white.

No one knows if one is Swedish or Norwegian, but it is obvious when one is not white in the culture of the US.

I think I explained it pretty well. The goal for a child adopted internationally is assimilation to the new culture, with a connection/ appreciation/ opportunities to the birth culture. Food, traditions, holidays, knowledge of relevant history and culture, etc. Every family chooses to address this differently at each developmental stage of the child, according to their means, and availability. Obsessively mandating the birth culture of the child ("immersion") at home, in dress, food, activities, school-- trying to re-create/ continue the birth culture, insisting the child continue to speak the birth language, and not focusing on english competence-- is a recipe for major problems, and a bad parenting plan. It's antithetical to effective assimilation and appropriate social development in the new country.

I strongly disagree that "immersion" in the birth culture of an adopted child should be any kind of goal. It's confusing, alienating, and sets the child up for lifelong problems. They are now an American child of ______ ethnicity/ descent. Or a hyphenated- American, if once chooses that identity. That is their new identity until they are an adult, and can choose for themselves. That is the blunt truth of international adoption. It's controversial for some to understand, I get it.

Identity is a tough thing for some kids, for others it's as easy as breathing. You have to know your kids and what they need. That's what being a parent is all about, adoptive or birth.

 

[Koshka]

I think a Disney Parade or perhaps Ariana Grande, one direction, or other pop fav teen musicians would have been much more fun for these kids than that hippie festival crap no place for kids. IMHO

Gotta say, as I kid I'd have picked "hippie festival crap" any day over those two choices. And I'd still do so as a 60-something adult who doesn't even drink much less use drugs.

 

[?mysterian?]

Credibitlity, schmedibility. Or Jen the Queen of BS.

Creating a narrative for the world on SM.

Remember the story that recently came to light about Jen and the kids being in a rollover accident the after Christmas while traveling to see Sarah in Oregon?

"On at least one occasion, Jennifer Hart spoke of the problems she dealt with in Alexandria with total strangers.

"She shared the struggles of living there," said Brian Lee, who lives in Garrison, North Dakota.

Lee and his wife met Jennifer Hart and all six kids the day after Christmas in 2012 while driving through Montana. Jennifer and the children had just been in a roll-over accident in their GMC Yukon along an icy stretch near Missoula.

Lee learned the Harts, whom they met in a gas station, were heading to Oregon to see Sarah, who had recently moved here to look for work.

He and his wife rented a trailer and gave the family a ride to Spokane. Jennifer Hart spoke for nearly the entire three-hour drive, he said.

"She said they needed a fresh, new start," Lee told The Oregonian/OregonLive." source: https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ons-missed-signals-preceded-deaths/499212002/

Well, this got me to thinking, with some other posting I had seen from both Sarah and Jen. The dates just don't jive.

<modsnip>

Jen posted on her FB page on Jan 1, 2013 telling her story of this event. According to her post, she left MN on December 22 and the rollover happened on December 23. But Sarah had already posted screenshots of the kids on the beach in Oregon days before. Oopsie.

Something tells me Brian and Sarah Lee are fictitious friends of the Harts.

Tryng to get screenshots of Jen's Xmas miracle to post.

How can Brian Lee be fictitious when he was quoted in the excerpt you posted? I'm confused.

 

[Sleuth99]

I'm not excusing them for it. Just pointing out that there are people out there who think like that. A lot of people who think like that. And don't see anything wrong with it.

You're not excusing it but you are presenting alternative thought patterns that don't fit the pattern of these two women. Given their own social media posts and reports about the Hart women, it is more than likely they were doing this to service their own selfish preferences. I have not seen anything where they've placed the children before their selves.

And even your suggestion would warrant that.


MOO*

 

[SarahW]

Occupy camps are no place for kids. Seriously.