CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[kizzykat]

Authorities consider Devonte, 15, and Hannah, 16, missing, but have said they might have been in the vehicle and swept out to sea.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...ck-days-ago-identified-as-hart-family-member/

 

[goldenbear]

I doubt that any of the children were taught how to swim. People can survive a 100 foot fall. If you do not know how to swim you dont have a chance.

 

[KaaBoom]

I’ve lived in CA near the ocean my entire life. Beach goers drown all the time mostly from going out too far and getting caught up in undercurrents, usually within a day or so their bodies are washed up. I can understand bodies not being found at all or months later who drowned miles out in the ocean far from shore that fell or were pushed off a boat like Laci Peterson. She washed to shore in four months. The Hart kids would have been ejected but not that far from shore in the water. Even people who have drowned near the rocky jetty and rocky areas around Newport and Laguna Beach the current eventually pushes the bodies towards shore usually within a few days or maybe a week at the longest. I find this extremely weird. I’m not so sure they are in the ocean. I find it odd LE posting missing flyers of the Hart kids if they believed they all drowned. They had to add Sierra to the poster since she hasn’t been identified yet.

Two years ago Katherine “Katie” Roe of Depoe Bay Oregon, fell into the bay. It took searchers almost a month to recover her body. Many people fall into the ocean at the shoreline and are never found. Sometimes bodies are recovered a long distance away from where they fell in. There is nothing unusual about it.

Missing woman's body found in ocean near Depoe Bay

 

[PearlClutcher]

If they were not extremely afraid that the kids would be taken away, then why did they not just answer the door when CPS knocked? Why did they take off in the middle of the night and drive into the ocean?

I believe that they were VERY angry with the children for being ungrateful. I believe that it is highly possible that a big discussion took place after CPS left and Sarah arrived home. It's possible that they may have hurt one or more of the kids, while still at home, after finding out that the kids felt mistreated.

Another possibility is that Sarah and Jen stayed up most of the night (after CPS stopped by) and hatched a plan regarding what they should do because they basically had lost control of those kids. They already had a rough 2017 according to Jen. Since the kids were unhappy and the parents were possibly stressed from so many things going wrong, they decide to leave early in the morning and stake out a place for them to have an "accident". :moo:

 

[Whiteorchids]

If they were not extremely afraid that the kids would be taken away, then why did they not just answer the door when CPS knocked? Why did they take off in the middle of the night and drive into the ocean?

I’m thinking they left to figure out what they were going to say and handle the situation. This is a mystery. LE said a crime had been committed. I feel something bad happened prior to leaving. I still think both or one woman beat Devonte and Hannah badly for going to the neighbors. They were so little and thin I don’t think it would take much to injure them even accidentally killing them going too far and getting carried away because of anger. Remember how badly Abigail was beat up with a belt and closed fist for a penny? This was much worse.

Put it this way they were in such a hurry to leave they knocked down partial block wall fence.

I don’t believe it was both that made suicide decision or Sarah would have drank alcohol too. I know I would have gotten very drunk if I was going to kill myself. I’m sure they pulled over to sleep or had fallen asleep while driving. My boys always fall asleep while driving on long drives. I believe it was all Jens decision.

 

[Lilibet]

I agree. It can be super intimidating and scary making a report. I remember when I made my first one--a little boy in his class very adamantly told me that his mother "does too hit me!" My evil co-teacher told me I shouldn't have called and that he hoped when I had kids something "like that" happened to me. a) If my kids said that I'd expect a CPS report and visit and, b) my child was killed by his own dad, so I'd already had "something like that happen to me." Jerk. Anyway, it can be scary! But we have to do it--I can't imagine the guilt and remorse and horror the neighbors are feeling now. When in doubt, call and ask to speak with a CPS screener anonymously.

Big hugs, flourish. :heartbeat: I’m so sorry.

 

[Lilibet]

I’m thinking they left to figure out what they were going to say and handle the situation. This is a mystery. LE said a crime had been committed. I feel something bad happened prior to leaving. I still think both or one woman beat Devonte and Hannah badly for going to the neighbors. They were so little and thin I don’t think it would take much to injure them even accidentally killing them going too far and getting carried away because of anger. Remember how badly Abigail was beat up with a belt and closed fist for a penny? This was much worse.

Put it this way they were in such a hurry to leave they knocked down partial block wall fence.

I don’t believe it was both that made suicide decision or Sarah would have drank alcohol too. I know I would have gotten very drunk if I was going to kill myself. I’m sure they pulled over to sleep or had fallen asleep while driving. My boys always fall asleep while driving on long drives. I believe it was all Jens decision.

This is what I think happened too. I think they would have tried to con CPS, so I don’t believe they fled to avoid losing the kids. But if anger caused death, nothing could cover that up. I imagine the other children were witnesses and feared for their lives...too much to try to escape. There is probably blood evidence at the house. Hence LE saying a crime was committed (other than driving off the cliff).
JMO

 

[SarahW]

I believe that they were VERY angry with the children for being ungrateful. I believe that it is highly possible that a big discussion took place after CPS left and Sarah arrived home. It's possible that they may have hurt one or more of the kids, while still at home, after finding out that the kids felt mistreated.

Another possibility is that Sarah and Jen stayed up most of the night (after CPS stopped by) and hatched a plan regarding what they should do because they basically had lost control of those kids. They already had a rough 2017 according to Jen. Since the kids were unhappy and the parents were possibly stressed from so many things going wrong, they decide to leave early in the morning and stake out a place for them to have an "accident". :moo:

She was saving them all from having to see her in jail. /s

Seriously, I cannot be the only one squicked out, at least in hindsight, by the big string of photos of kids posed with "Be Thankful" signs. It bothered me a lot in juxtaposition with all the reports of rough treatment and food withholding, as a sign of gaslighting, e.g. I imagined them saying "be grateful for this beautiful house without any wire hangers in your closet. You would be with your worthless crack momma if it weren't for us, living in filth and squalor without a single Cat Steven's album to your name" and brutal set downs to make them grateful for their ill-treatment.

 

[KaaBoom]

I'm really beginning to wonder about the asking for food. Was the going to the neighbors as much about trying to ask for help -without actually asking for it- (in the form of professional help -i.e. CPS)? As much as he was afraid that the children would be split up, maybe he was very torn and hoping that the neighbors would call CPS, realizing on some level that as bad as splitting up could be, they needed help.

I think they were asking for help, because they were starving to death. They were actually asking for it.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Two years ago Katherine “Katie” Roe of Depoe Bay Oregon, fell into the bay. It took searchers almost a month to recover her body. Many people fall into the ocean at the shoreline and are never found. Sometimes bodies are recovered a long distance away from where they fell in. There is nothing unusual about it.

Missing woman's body found in ocean near Depoe Bay

I have never heard of anyone at CA beaches, in Pacific Ocean go missing near the shoreline and never found so it doesn’t happen all the time. Only if they went missing much further out in the ocean where it’s deeper and calmer. When kids were ejected I don’t think it would have been too far. Strong waves would bring them to shore or close.

 

[kizzykat]

They weren't permitted to play outside and weren't doing schoolwork either (Devonte told Dana DeKalb "we have books" when she asked about home schooling). I wonder how the kids spent their time in the house? Were they responsible for cooking and cleaning and laundry? WTH could they have ever done that was so bad that their punishment was food withheld for days - make too much noise while JH was busy gaming? Devonte was taking a big risk asking for food, and he asked for enough to feed his bothers and sisters, too. It's hard to imagine him sneaking food into his own home, then having to sneak it to his siblings so his parents wouldn't know. They must've devoured what they got. It's just so messed up...

 

[castilloisno1]

Is the home considered a crime scene??

 

[Sleuth99]

Is the home considered a crime scene??

It should be. Yellow tape around the whole perimeter!


MOO*

 

[flourish]

Two years ago Katherine “Katie” Roe of Depoe Bay Oregon, fell into the bay. It took searchers almost a month to recover her body. Many people fall into the ocean at the shoreline and are never found. Sometimes bodies are recovered a long distance away from where they fell in. There is nothing unusual about it.

Missing woman's body found in ocean near Depoe Bay

Thank you KaaBoom. I especially appreciate how you provided an example. I remember that case... So sad

I have never heard of anyone at CA beaches, in Pacific Ocean go missing near the shoreline and never found so it doesn’t happen all the time. Only if they went missing much further out in the ocean where it’s deeper and calmer. When kids were ejected I don’t think it would have been too far. Strong waves would bring them to shore or close.

No offense but just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

If one is going to repeatedly argue a position, like they would absolutely or would absolutely not be found, or whether or not seaweed is impacting, it's best practice to either provide a link to back up one's assertion or form it as an opinion not an absolute fact.

 

[KaaBoom]

I believe that they were VERY angry with the children for being ungrateful. I believe that it is highly possible that a big discussion took place after CPS left and Sarah arrived home. It's possible that they may have hurt one or more of the kids, while still at home, after finding out that the kids felt mistreated.

Another possibility is that Sarah and Jen stayed up most of the night (after CPS stopped by) and hatched a plan regarding what they should do because they basically had lost control of those kids. They already had a rough 2017 according to Jen. Since the kids were unhappy and the parents were possibly stressed from so many things going wrong, they decide to leave early in the morning and stake out a place for them to have an "accident". :moo:

I don't think that ungrateful or unruly children would cause any parent to commit murder-suicide. If that was a trigger, then probably half of the families in this country would commit murder suicide today. Most murder-suicides are a result of fear of separation. Usually it involves broken relationships. But in this case I think it was knowing that they were going to prison and the kids were going to foster care.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

FWIW - regarding why the women ran. When I wanted to kill my daughter (earlier comment; she's alive and well and so am I) I didn't know I'd been abused as a child. But I had this overwhelming compulsion to "SAVE" my daughter by killing her. That sounds so crazy, and it is. I didn't know what I needed to save her from, just that death would be a mercy. If these women-- who I won't call mothers or by their names-- felt driven to "save" these children, from their birth families, from their cultures, from school and society, and them from themselves, it would make sense to me. I keep thinking of the movie GET OUT. Imagine a black family adopting a white child. We would think that odd or bizarre. Yet we hand children of color to any white person who'll take them, and that alone is racist and perverse.

 

[Starkville]

I didn't know the neighbors had a long list of questions for Devonte. "Are you being homeschooled?" "We have books." "Are you being abused?" "Yes." "Why are you never outside?" "They're hiding us." He told them they were never allowed to play outside when they lived in West Linn either.

If I were contemplating calling CPS on a family, I’d want as much information as possible. I’d want to have plenty of infractions to report to screeners. And I’d also be trying to ascertain whether it was serious enough to report. There are parents I know who are much more strict than I am, but is it abuse? Sending a kid to bed without dinner? Pointless and mean and old-fashioned, but not abuse IMO. Not giving them food for days? ABUSE.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I've also called CA CPS three different times on three different situations. In all three times, I was treated kindly and carefully. Never was I cross-examined or made to feel uncomfortable. In 2 instances, visits were made immediately and in 1, the mother ran with her children. In the 3rd instance, I never knew the outcome. They asked for my name, and told me I would be 100% anonymous. But even if it were a risk, I didn't care. It was to save a child.

 

[Sleuth99]

FWIW - regarding why the women ran. When I wanted to kill my daughter (earlier comment; she's alive and well and so am I) I didn't know I'd been abused as a child. But I had this overwhelming compulsion to "SAVE" my daughter by killing her. That sounds so crazy, and it is. I didn't know what I needed to save her from, just that death would be a mercy. If these women-- who I won't call mothers or by their names-- felt driven to "save" these children, from their birth families, from their cultures, from school and society, and them from themselves, it would make sense to me. I keep thinking of the movie GET OUT. Imagine a black family adopting a white child. We would think that odd or bizarre. Yet we hand children of color to any white person who'll take them, and that alone is racist and perverse.

Bless your heart. But please remember they returned "Lee".

The only people they were trying to save were themselves and their fake reputations.

GET OUT movie they were in it for themselves too.


MOO*

 

[flourish]

I've also called CA CPS three different times on three different situations. In all three times, I was treated kindly and carefully. Never was I cross-examined or made to feel uncomfortable. In 2 instances, visits were made immediately and in 1, the mother ran with her children. In the 3rd instance, I never knew the outcome. They asked for my name, and told me I would be 100% anonymous. But even if it were a risk, I didn't care. It was to save a child.

Just for everyone's info, it's not actually 100 percent anonymous all the time. I've had my name revealed more than once and even filed a complaint with the local office of the justice department. I was told they had the right to know/face the accuser, which seems pretty stupid, but in any case I've seen personally where it's not her confidential but I don't want to discourage anyone from making reports. If it's very important to be anonymous (safety etc) then I'd hesitate to give my name unless they wouldn't do anything or take the report otherwise, in which case I'd be talking to a supervisor real quick