CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[Sleuth99]

If I were contemplating calling CPS on a family, I’d want as much information as possible. I’d want to have plenty of infractions to report to screeners. And I’d also be trying to ascertain whether it was serious enough to report. There are parents I know who are much more strict than I am, but is it abuse? Sending a kid to bed without dinner? Pointless and mean and old-fashioned, but not abuse IMO. Not giving them food for days? ABUSE.

Intentionally sending a child to bed without a meal (especially if you have the food) is abuse.

I think people are confusing what is abuse with what they are able to tolerate as abuse and not feel guilty reporting.

Abuse can be an a single moment or instance. It does not have to be long term or repeated to be reported. CPS should determine the severity and next steps to alleviate the problem.




MOO*

 

[flourish]

Intentionally sending a child to bed without a meal (especially if you have the food) is abuse.

I think people are confusing what is abuse with what they are able to tolerate as abuse and not feel guilty reporting.

Abuse can be an a single moment or instance. It does not have to be long term or repeated to be reported. CPS should determine the severity and next steps to alleviate the problem.




MOO*

I'd have to disagree that sending a child to bed without dinner once or twice as punishment is not abuse in and of itself. I personally would not, as I believe food and discipline don't mix, but honestly I would not make a report if a child disclosed that and there weren't other concerns.


Again, context.

Hitting children is legal in many states, although I don't believe it's okay.

Some kids are picky eaters or being ornery and refusing to eat what's for dinner. I always provided one alternative and if you don't want either then you're out of luck. Most kids in the US aren't starving so missing dinner isn't a huge deal. Again, context.

But can you provide any links that sending a child to bed without dinner is legally considered abuse or is it that you personally consider it abusive?

 

[KaaBoom]

I have never heard of anyone at CA beaches, in Pacific Ocean go missing near the shoreline and never found so it doesn’t happen all the time. Only if they went missing much further out in the ocean where it’s deeper and calmer. When kids were ejected I don’t think it would have been too far. Strong waves would bring them to shore or close.

It does happen all of the time, in California too. Here is a man who fell off the Crystal Pier in Pacific Beach. His body was found three weeks later by a fisherman, several miles from shore. If the fisherman didn't find his body, it would have ended up as nothing but bone fragments on the bottom of the ocean. The ocean can wash bodies out to sea, as easily as washing them up onto a beach.

Search underway for body of 18-year-old missing swimmer near Huntington Beach Pier _ abc7.com.html

 

[PearlClutcher]

I don't think that ungrateful or unruly children would cause any parent to commit murder-suicide. If that was a trigger, then probably half of the families in this country would commit murder suicide today. Most murder-suicides are a result of fear of separation. Usually it involves broken relationships. But in this case I think it was knowing that they were going to prison and the kids were going to foster care.

I don't believe that most parents would respond this way but in this case, I do believe that being "ungrateful" could serve as an impetus. It appeared as though these parents treated their kids like things (like they owned them). Jen and Sarah may have loved the children but I doubt that they loved them so much they just couldn't live without them...

 

[Doghairrules]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/authorities_id_female_found_in.html

So it was Ciera who was found. Hannah and Devonte still missing.

Interesting that her legal name is spelled the same as the name given her at birth. Why change the spelling without changing it legally? They would have had the opportunity to do that as part of the adoption process. Sigh.

 

[whoopiecushions]

Bless your heart. But please remember they returned "Lee".

The only people they were trying to save were themselves and their fake reputations.

GET OUT movie they were in it for themselves too.


MOO*

She used the word "save" in quotes. I don't think she would disagree with you.

 

[Sleuth99]

I'd have to disagree that sending a child to bed without dinner once or twice as punishment is not abuse in and of itself. I personally would not, as I believe food and discipline don't mix, but honestly I would not make a report if a child disclosed that and there weren't other concerns.


Again, context.

Hitting children is legal in many states, although I don't believe it's okay.

Some kids are picky eaters or being ornery and refusing to eat what's for dinner. I always provided one alternative and if you don't want either then you're out of luck. Most kids in the US aren't starving so missing dinner isn't a huge deal. Again, context.

But can you provide any links that sending a child to bed without dinner is legally considered abuse or is it that you personally consider it abusive?

I'm saying there are levels of abuse. Refusing to eat is not the same as withholding a meal. Law informs what is considered for punishment. I believe there are levels that exist before the law chooses to engage full on but it doesn't mean it's not abuse for me. Appreciate you asking specifically about the legality component.


MOO*

 

[bears10]

I think people who use this website know better than most how easy it is to track someone down with only a tiny bit of information.

And to your second point - yes!


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...rolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

My friends and boss joke that I can find out anything about anyone (not the case, but they are all apparently strangers to google lol). Two of my best friends have, um, not the best track records when it comes to the men they’ve dated, to put it gently. One was a sociopath magnet until she finally met her amazing husband. Both friends knew the second they told me about a new guy, I was off to google them. Many times I found things out that the guy had completely lied about or failed to mention, and not little things either. It’s really not hard to find out about people these days imo. All it takes is a little patience, creative googling techniques, and the will to do so. I mean maybe I’m just a creeper, idk lol. I’ve never doxxed anyone or used any info I’ve found out for nefarious purposes by any means. It’s just curiosity, and wanting to look out for my loved ones. I spend too much time on WS lol.

 

[gcharlie]

News today is that the body found on April 7 has been positively identified as Sierra, now corrected to Ciera.

I keep seeing people hoping that Hannah and Devonte are found alive.

I ask myself what would life be like for them if they are still alive? We know that they got bounced around as kids before they were adopted. There are reports of abuse of child abuse in the home when these kids were young. And both of them reached out for help in the last year, saying that they were being abused. Now add to this the fact that their adopted siblings are all now dead in what appears to be a murder suicide.

These kids have been through so much and we have no idea how bad it really was for them.

As much as I don't want to see these kids dead, I also don't want to see them survive as severely traumatized individuals who are crippled socially and emotionally for the rest of their lives. I don't know if this makes sense to others, but this is how I feel as someone who values quality of life.

 

[Sleuth99]

She used the word "save" in quotes. I don't think she would disagree with you.

Appreciate the mediation but I know what she was trying to say and my response applies. You can insert quotes in my response too.

I read her earlier post and understand she did a lot of personal work to heal and overcome her internal challenges. I don't think the Hart women felt they needed to do any inner work nor were willing too. Two different situations IMO



MOO*

 

[Shiressleuth]

Thank you bluesneakers for the Dr Oz heads up. I caught part of it.
Thursday March 15 Devonte came over and asked for tortillas, the DeKalb's gave him a package.
Friday night 3/16 he came over and asked for a jar of peanut butter.
Then it escalated to him asking for 6 jars of peanut butter and 6 packages of tortillas.
The last night he came over was when Devonte asked if they'd called yet. When they shut the door after that visit they decided it was time to call authorities.
(So approximately a week after he first asked for food is when they called CPS.)
They said when Devonte came over he never came inside, he would be at the door briefly, nervous, watching the driveway, and leave.

The DeKalbs said what they saw of the Harts was nothing like the what has been portrayed on SM. Kids didn't play outside, they'd have a snowstorm, there was no sledding, nothing.
They also said when the story broke on the Turpins they both watched it and Dana said 'that's what's going on next door'.
She did say she regrets not calling sooner.

6 jars of peanut butter and 6 packages of tortillas - God love him he wanted one for each of them. Heartbreaking that's what he asked for.
:crying:

 

[Doghairrules]

6 jars of peanut butter and 6 packages of tortillas - God love him he wanted one for each of them. Heartbreaking that's what he asked for.
:crying:

Right? Thinking of his siblings when he was in such a dire situation himself. That’s a special heart right there. [emoji22]

 

[Shiressleuth]

News today is that the body found on April 7 has been positively identified as Sierra, now corrected to Ciera.

I keep seeing people hoping that Hannah and Devonte are found alive.

I ask myself what would life be like for them if they are still alive? We know that they got bounced around as kids before they were adopted. There are reports of abuse of child abuse in the home when these kids were young. And both of them reached out for help in the last year, saying that they were being abused. Now add to this the fact that their adopted siblings are all now dead in what appears to be a murder suicide.

These kids have been through so much and we have no idea how bad it really was for them.

As much as I don't want to see these kids dead, I also don't want to see them survive as severely traumatized individuals who are crippled socially and emotionally for the rest of their lives. I don't know if this makes sense to others, but this is how I feel as someone who values quality of life.

I honestly cannot understand why you think that, so it doesn't make sense to me at all. I fear they are not alive but they certainly deserve to be IMO.

 

[PearlClutcher]

6 jars of peanut butter and 6 packages of tortillas - God love him he wanted one for each of them. Heartbreaking that's what he asked for.
:crying:

Can you imagine these kids whispering and secretly trying to hatch a plan to get food? Their lives had been reduced to scavenging for the most basic of needs with very healthy looking moms in the next room. Sad to even think about it.

 

[mtnlites]

My friends and boss joke that I can find out anything about anyone (not the case, but they are all apparently strangers to google lol). Two of my best friends have, um, not the best track records when it comes to the men they’ve dated, to put it gently. One was a sociopath magnet until she finally met her amazing husband. Both friends knew the second they told me about a new guy, I was off to google them. Many times I found things out that the guy had completely lied about or failed to mention, and not little things either. It’s really not hard to find out about people these days imo. All it takes is a little patience, creative googling techniques, and the will to do so. I mean maybe I’m just a creeper, idk lol. I’ve never doxxed anyone or used any info I’ve found out for nefarious purposes by any means. It’s just curiosity, and wanting to look out for my loved ones. I spend too much time on WS lol.

Ha ha, me too! Occasionally, when I am stressed, I'll look up old boyfriends* just to remind myself that I made the right decision. (What? Nobody else?) I have found that people are incredibly easy to find with, as you said, creative Googling techniques.

To bring this back to the Harts, however, we have to keep in mind that their FB pages were public and that they seemed to enjoy having a public persona. (Hence their "staged" pictures, their "Hart Tribe" moniker, etc. Nothing wrong with that-I enjoy it as well, for the most part.) They weren't hard to find because their stuff was public at the time.

*Before I sound all creepy, I've also looked up people for less stalkerish reasons-like family who have drifted apart.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Bless your heart. But please remember they returned "Lee".

The only people they were trying to save were themselves and their fake reputations.

GET OUT movie they were in it for themselves too.

Thank you, dear defender I need to explain myself. I only answered the idea of why the women might run, because people seem stumped. That is in no way defense of them. I am a full advocate of children's rights. Children owe their parents, birth or otherwise, nothing. Nothing. They did not ask to be born. If either of my children refused to see me based on their past mistreatment by me, I'd let them go. I'd pray they returned, but if they needed me out of their lives to have better ones, so be it. I deserve anything they can throw at me. I only know that I'm a good mother today. If you can't say that, you have no business being a mother. And from what I see of childrearing most of the time, it's a wonder any children do make it. I'll be more careful how I post. Regarding CPS: I only stated my experience. Not a blanket statement of all CPS.

[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]​

 

[Figuring]

I've been quiet but reading everyone's comments closely!

I just wanted to comment on the Benadryl situation...Police said "large amounts" were present--imo, that does imply more than necessary for any given condition. It implies "unusual," to me. (Large > standard)

But even more generally, the widespread ingestion of Benadyl--it looks nefarious, logically. Everyone in the family (except the driver of the car) has allergies &/or sleeping problems etc, concurrently???

I feel that if you intend to drive 6-7 other non-consenting people off a cliff, & they're not seat-belted in, drugging them seems necessary. Otherwise there'd be screaming, jumping out of the car & so on. It also explains them NOT having been seat belted--if they were marched &/or loaded in, drugged, then Jen Hart knew seat belts weren't necessary either for safety or to ensure the act would be completed.

These poor, pure children. I am so heartbroken for their suffering.

 

[Stunned]

The big question now is where are Hannah and Devonte? Are they dead or alive? People dsagree thinking either that they did run away or that they were killed prior. But one thing I think we all agree on is hoe strange it is that it just so happened that the only two bodies not found were hannah and devonte.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

It is very disturbing too me that those two are the ones unaccounted for!

 

[KaaBoom]

'They way they took those kids was wrong': Stepfather of three children whose adoptive family drove them off a cliff speaks out and shares sweet photos taken with them before his wife lost custody

The stepfather of three children whose adoptive family drove them off a cliff in Northern California has spoken out.
Nathaniel Davis is married to Sherry Hurd, the biological mother of Devonte, 15; Jeremiah, 14; and Sierra, 12; and believes they would be alive today if they'd been allowed to stay with their family.
In 2006, Davis and Hurd had the children taken by Child Protective Services because of her cocaine addiction, and they were adopted in 2009 by Jennifer and Sarah Hart.

They were wrong. The way they took those kids was wrong,' Davis told Click 2 Houston on Monday.

Davis told the news station that his wife was a good mother despite suffering from drug abuse.
'She never did let those kids do without. She would do without before them kids,' he told Click 2 Houston.
Davis said he was shocked when he learned about the crash - not knowing how the kids were doing for a decade.
'It's hurting me because I know we had more to offer them than those people did. They would have had a better life. I sure believe it,' he said.

Stepfather of kids whose adoptive mom drove them off cliff speaks out _ Daily Mail Online

 

[fridaybaker]

Devonte initially told Dana not to call the cops. That they'd be split up. (They relayed his concern didn't seem to be split from the parents, but from the other siblings.) She told him not necessarily. I think that's the point she asked him a series of questions as posted by bluesneakers above. After a week of his visits, the escalation in food requests, and him asking 'did you call yet', that's when they called authorities.

Kizzy, thanks for the clarification! I didn't note that.