CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

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No, I was not being sarcastic. A post referenced her history of shoplifting but I'd only seen a report of the single incident. To me one incident of shoplifting is different from a history of shoplifting, so I asked for more information. IMO there's a difference between she got caught one time and she got caught 10 times over a period of five years (for example). And it's not that it doesn't matter - it's just different. I agree with you that given the circumstances we're going to look at everything in her past and see how and if it tells us how she got to where she ended up.

She could have been extremely unlucky and gotten caught the first and only time she shoplifted. However statistically, the odds of getting caught in the act for any given act of shoplifting is about 1 in 50. Most shoplifters with a conviction have shoplifted many times before getting caught, and will reoffend.

https://www.statisticbrain.com/shoplifting-statistics/
 
People with certain types of personality problems tend to project their own motives and flaws onto their scapegoats. Sometimes you can basically read this type of person like a book by listening carefully to what they accuse others of doing. The classic example is the cheater who is paranoid that his wife is unfaithful. But in this case, several possible "translations" come to mind:

"The kids gorge themselves on food!" ="I binge and lack self-control."

"The kids will never hold down a job!"= "I have never been able to hold down a job."

"Abigail is a liar!"= "I am a liar."
 
Right, but many people have shoplifted once or twice and never done it again. It's not the same as having a history of shoplifting or being a repeat offender. If someone once got drunk and took off her shirt in public I wouldn't say that person has a history of exhibitionism.

I think the shoplifting charge is just one part of her history of bad decisions. If she was convicted of shoplifting one time and then went on to live a life as a productive law abiding citizen, no one would care. But that didn't happen.
 
Sorry, wasn’t directing it at you. But $53k is a decent salary in some areas of the country, so I’m curious if that was really her salary or just hearsay since I’ve seen it mentioned several times.
Yeah, I have 2 degrees in education and don’t make that much!
 
You can get braces, too - the clear kind that are a series of retainers! At way less than orthodontists'! Supposedly faster, easier...

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I had those,, Only $6000 for the braces and then more
 
Plus that is the only time she got caught. Does anybody really think that is the only time she did it?

No, I don’t think it was the first or last time she shoplifted. I still want to know how they supported their lifestyle and afforded two adoptions of three kids each in their 20’s. And did she teach the kids to steal? Horrible thought, but it would explain the dramatic overreaction to finding a penny in the pocket of Hannah (?) or was it Abigail (?). I’m probably reaching though. It may just have been because it reflected her past.
JMO
 
I had those,, Only $6000 for the braces and then more

I live in a very HOCL area and my stepkids both just had them.. it was $3k each. I think some people (myself included) get hung up on how much things cost/what life is like where they live that we forget that so many things vary based on region.
 
History of shoplifting? I thought it was just the one offense of shoes and sports cards. Did I miss something? Thanks.

My guess is it was not the first time. We have no history. Does someone start shoplifting at her age. Maybe.
 
I agree. It's an interesting tidbit from her history. She shoplifted a bunch of trading cards. A lot of them. Then blamed the crime on going through something. She might have been. So how she handles crisis is by creating more crisis.

Yep, if she thought she could solve some minor problem by shoplifting trading cards, it's not too surprising that she decided to solve this problem the way she did.
 
That article on Jen is interesting. The pics are really sweet of the children.
Whatever Jen was or how she treated those kids is because she might have experienced this same kind of punishment in the house while growing up. Maybe that is why the parents are so quiet. I bet Sarah's childhood had some abuse b/c how could she stand by and see it.
Could it be possible that Jen had some type of schizophrenia since she stole from that store?
I think she intentionally was trying to stunt their growth. Keep them children. Asexual.

If the kids would never be able to be independent or work etc then why were a couple of them able to mow a lawn on a riding mower and lay wood floors? In that pic of the 2 boys playing cards there is a sander at their feet and a can of deck varnish next to them. I would think they would keep tools and toxic chemicals away from the kids. Who prescribed all of them glasses?

It's weird how she got away from her home life as a teen by moving in with her father but somehow she tried to stop her own adopted kids from getting away from her.
I suspect JH had strict and controlling parents as well. I also think JH definitely had some underlying disorder where she:

1. Lacked EMPATHY (withholding food).

2. Was impulsive (she stole).

3. Was a master manipulator (had the ability to be charming and tell stories that painted herself in a good light. ( lied and deceived various people about the kids and the family image she portrayed on FB).

4. Had poor behavioral controls (was easily angered and would resort to sudden violence (hitting her small children with a belt or striking with a fist for small infractions.

5. And then murder / suicide.

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I live in a very HOCL area and my stepkids both just had them.. it was $3k each. I think some people (myself included) get hung up on how much things cost/what life is like where they live that we forget that so many things vary based on region.

I had them as an adult. Probably harder to correct or those kid’s issues were easy.
 
No, I don’t think it was the first or last time she shoplifted. I still want to know how they supported their lifestyle and afforded two adoptions of three kids each in their 20’s. And did she teach the kids to steal? Horrible thought, but it would explain the dramatic overreaction to finding a penny in the pocket of Hannah (?) or was it Abigail (?). I’m probably reaching though. It may just have been because it reflected her past.
JMO
What about the possibility of having Davonte "collecting money for charity" and they keep it?

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I have a friend who adopted two boys when they were young toddlers. She was told that they may never speak, walk, go to school etc. She resigned herself to this life, but she also threw her boys into all the therapies that may or may not make a difference. They flourished.

However, the oldest does have a marked intellectual ability, and to us - her good friends, she would question his abilities out in the real world, even as far as saying "he can't do it" on their bad days. But she never denies him the opportunity to try. He is currently living in his own apartment. Will it last? Its only been a month, maybe not. She won't be the one that stops him. He's had a relationship, and when he has a job, he has a great work ethic - he's been waiting to get into a developmentally appropriate program for work that has a wait list.

Her younger one will have little abnormal problems out in the world. Obviously, they are both able to talk, walk, and be educated.

It worries me that these parents had zero sum view of the childrens capabilities. No give, no opportunity, just ownership.
I think that is what normal parents do. We try variousness treatments, even if it seems a long shot. We try a new therapist if the current one isn’t making progress. We change supplementary educational programs. We try a new support. We read more books. We find another support group. We look into what our next step might be. We give them every opportunity.

It crossed my mind that we might try having our one son have his own apartment and that it may or may not work long term. We may find the right interventions so he can be successful. Or we might have to try some other option. Or maybe the first three times he won’t be ready; but the fourth time will work out beautifully. Who knows what it will take.

Can’t imagine not keeping our options open though! It would teach him (and our other kids also) very wrong lessons and values to just give up when he is so young. Every person has their strengths and can be helped with areas of concern. And no one is perfect! We just take our perfectly imperfections and do the best we can and teach our kids to also.

I really wonder about the Harts regarding this. Why would you not do this? I get that it became about them instead of the kids. But what about things like:

1) what will my kids think if we don’t give them these opportunities?

2) what will people say when they realize how _____ the kids are, they could have _____?

3) what if someone (state, bio family, etc) confronts me about holding them back, abusing them like ____, etc?

4) what if the kids get their records that show the truth?

Did they really think that they would never have to answer to anyone ever?

Well, I guess they didn’t. But certainly murder-suicide wasn’t always in the plan!
 
What about the possibility of having Davonte "collecting money for charity" and they keep it?

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This definitely occurred to me. Maybe not every single charitable collection, but it's not like there was some kind of oversight so she could have done a "one for the pot, two for the cook" kind of method dividing up the funds. Using cute minority kids and the pretense of peace 'n' love to grift among a community of "open minded" hippies certainly sounds like a plausible way of getting a little pocket money, for someone like her.
 
Saying this allowed her to be both a victim of circumstance and a hero....she’s such a self-sacrificing mother blah blah blah. I wonder if anyone ever challenged her and said “So what are you doing to help them reach their full potential?” But she would have cut that person out of her life immediately.

It amazes me that she never spoke to her father again after he sent her back to live with her mother because she was abusing his trust. As has been said before, she was a classic injustice collector. Having 6 “disabled” children of color played right along with that scenario.
JMO

Remind me of how she treated the child they fostered.

This part: It amazes me that she never spoke to her father again after he sent her back to live with her mother because she was abusing his trust.


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Plus that is the only time she got caught. Does anybody really think that is the only time she did it?
I dont. Especially since she strikes me as someone who demonstrates a sense of entitlement with no remorse or accountability.

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She could have been extremely unlucky and gotten caught the first and only time she shoplifted. However statistically, the odds of getting caught in the act for any given act of shoplifting is about 1 in 50. Most shoplifters with a conviction have shoplifted many times before getting caught, and will reoffend.

https://www.statisticbrain.com/shoplifting-statistics/

Also she was 20 years old at that time. If she had any other convictions on her record from before she turned 18 those would have long since been wiped off her record. So that might not have even been the first time she was caught.
 
Remind me of how she treated the child they fostered.

This part: It amazes me that she never spoke to her father again after he sent her back to live with her mother because she was abusing his trust.


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Definitely the same idea!
 
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