CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[Marah]

In addition to cutting nipples off of mannequins. Impulsive and over the top.

Is there a link to this story? I don't remember reading this! Thanks.

 

[Jax49]

Is there a link to this story? I don't remember reading this! Thanks.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ino-Cty-26-Mar-2018-6&p=14071676#post14071676

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...-remember-previous-foster-child-in-minnesota/

 

[Sleuth99]

I just wanted to chime in with the WTH was wrong with Jen (and/or Sarah) conversation. NPD and BPD are thrown around a lot and both seem fitting to some degree, but Histrionic is an intriguing possibility in this case, to me.

For anyone unfamiliar with Histrionic Personality, here are the criteria. This article is comparing Histrionic to Borderline, but I've seen it compared with narcissism too.



HPD is one of 10 personality disorders recognized in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5). HPD is one of the Cluster B disorders, which are characterized as dramatic, overly emotional, and/or erratic.

The DSM-5 defines histrionic personality disorder as a pattern of extreme emotionality and attention seeking behavior that begins by early adulthood and is obvious in different situations. In addition, you must have five or more of the following signs or symptoms to be diagnosed with HPD:

Discomfort in situations in which you're not the center of attention

Interaction with others that's often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior

Rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotion

Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self

Style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail

Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion

Is easily influenced by others or by circumstances

Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are
https://www.verywellmind.com/histronic-personality-disorder-425425


And, moo, I believe Sarah probably had her own disfunctional personality going on, maybe from cluster C (OCD or avoidant perhaps), but...

I'm not convinced there wasn't partner abuse in this relationship either. But unless someone who lived in that house is miraculously found alive, I wonder if we'll ever know for sure. I suppose there is plenty of time for more information to come out.

(OT I cannot thank the person who posted the Lundy Bancroft book enough. I can't locate your post right now, or remember the name, but thank you.)

Which HPD traits do you think she may have exhibited the most?


IMO

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

Some posters don't think that looks like JH. Does anyone have recent photos of them all? I.e. a few months ago from their FB perhaps?.

There’s no need to compare photos to confirm that the woman is Jennifer. Law enforcement already confirmed that it is her.

“There was initially some question whether the woman in the image was Hart, and now Officer Olegario Marin confirms the grainy security footage depicts her checking out at the store with a bunch of bananas on the counter.”

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/Mendocino-SUV-cliff-Jennifer-Hart-surveillance-12809204.php

Also, she is holding a card. It could be a credit or debit card, which would link right back to her. Or it could be a Safeway Club Card, which the store can easily link to her by name and phone number.
http://www.safeway.com/ShopStores/Club-Card.page



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[Shiressleuth]

Tox report on third child found at crash site, and Cierra's have not been released yet.

I got my info from the Mendocino Sheriff FB page I linked earlier. Where did it say about the third child's tox report? I must have missed that. My point is that so far only 3 persons had Benadryl ingredient confirmed so far.

 

[bluesneakers]

Which HPD traits do you think she may have exhibited the most?


IMO

Out of this list? I'm curious too. Most of these would have to be seen in person and observed more than once, IMO. I also wonder how easy it is to diagnose HPD via the internet. And if it's common among family annihilators.

Discomfort in situations in which you're not the center of attention

Interaction with others that's often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior

Rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotion

Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self

Style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail

Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion

Is easily influenced by others or by circumstances

Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

 

[Shiressleuth]

There’s no need to compare photos to confirm that the woman is Jennifer. Law enforcement already confirmed that it is her.

“There was initially some question whether the woman in the image was Hart, and now Officer Olegario Marin confirms the grainy security footage depicts her checking out at the store with a bunch of bananas on the counter.”

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/Mendocino-SUV-cliff-Jennifer-Hart-surveillance-12809204.php

Also, she is holding a card. It could be a credit or debit card, which would link right back to her. Or it could be a Safeway Club Card, which the store can easily link to her by name and phone number.
http://www.safeway.com/ShopStores/Club-Card.page



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I never said I need it confirmed, I just said some posters have said it didn't look like her. I would like to see some photos to see how she has changed. All the others I have seen are more than two years old it seems.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I think they could easily had got medical for the kids to pay for braces. I know alot of medical insurances will fully paid for almost all childrens dental procedures.

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IMO JH and SH did not seek any medical or dental treatment for the kids because there was a very good chance the abuse and neglect would be exposed. The doctors would question the parents, etc.

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[human]

When she was 12, her parents divorced. She stayed with her mom and siblings in the blue house where she grew up.

When Jennifer asked to move in at 14, he drove home from work sites every day, sometimes hundreds of miles. The arrangement worked for a while, he said. But Jennifer started breaking the rules in the hours between school and his arrival home. He told her she had to move back to her mother’s house.

“I thought maybe when she got older she would understand,” he said.

~~~

She also wrote more than once about the abusive world that her children had left behind. She described Devonte’s birth and early childhood in 2012. “Born into a world of drugs (pumping through his newly born body), weapons and extreme poverty, one would assume his future was bleak. ... By the time he was 4, he had smoked, consumed alcohol, handled guns, been shot at and suffered severe abuse and neglect.”

Attorney Shonda Jones, who represented the aunt, said Hart’s account was false. “Those are all lies, that did not happen. Devonte was not born on drugs. I’ve never heard anything about being shot at or anything like that.”

But a blogger noticed Jen Hart’s online claims about her child’s horrific start in life in 2014 and incredible turnaround. She published it in a New Zealand outlet, then Huffington Post, all before his hug photo went viral.

“The adoptive mother fed a lie to the public,” Jones said. “She fed into a stereotype that reinforced other people’s racism.”

~~~

After the photo of Devonte and the police officer went viral, she said reporters staked out the family home for weeks. Their mailbox filled with positive messages from people worldwide, she wrote on Facebook. “Kim Kardashian = #breaktheinternet. Devonte Hart = #healtheinternet,” she wrote.

She attended two post-election rallies with her children and said people responded with questions about why she would put her kids in danger.

Soon after, she disappeared from Facebook for six months. She changed her phone. The family moved to Washington.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...st_to_her_drive_off_the_california_cliff.html

-----
A few things stand out from the latest article in OregonLive.

1. Bbm: Rejection. Original wound. Child of divorce at 12 years old, a pivotal turning point in adolescence. She never came to healing even in severing contact with her own family. And in the darkness of that wound never addressed she killed her adolescent children.

2. Pathological liar? Bbm: -Really struck by the power of Atty Jone's statement. What did the spin of this yarn serve? And how it is juxtaposed with her choices to directly engage (not protect) these children in one of the most heated and divisive times in this country. These politically charged events serve what purpose? Her own injustice?

3. Bbm: The hashtags. The superficiality of fame, of her own importance living through Devonte's short lived fame. And she used him. By the time the post election rallies came around and emotions were really heated, people started to question her as a parent. She cut everyone off.

I'm thinking it is J&S that were hitting the breaking point. Kids in adolescence, Jen hits that crucial point where her own family fell apart. Depression, self medication, out of control? No way out? How do they handle a divorce? Each stressed to the max in different ways.

Article states all the kids went to CT for J&S marriage. This means Jen was the one who adopted the children? But after they married, both are legally responsible for them? Therefore both could be facing a lifetime in prison if CPS &LE uncovered the truth. This is why I think they were both in on the decision to end it the way they did.

I wish I could snip but don’t know how. I want to refer to the father saying how sometimes he drove hundreds of miles

Ok.Work day. 8 hours. Hundreds of miles. 200 hundred? So drive the speed of 60 mph. Three hours of driving. That is 11 hours. Sleep. Time with child?

Hm.

 

[Sleuth99]

Out of this list? I'm curious too. Most of these would have to be seen in person and observed more than once, IMO. I also wonder how easy it is to diagnose HPD via the internet. And if it's common among family annihilators.

Yep, thanks for the addition. I was wondering about that connection because I couldn't see how the info we had could suggest HPD and wanted to know the thought process for selecting it.


IMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

She used her safeway club card. So it is likely her.

And there was a post way back upthread, which showed that pic, side by side, with one of her from earlier---and they are identical in facial features. She just gained weight recently it seems.

That would be good to see. Do
you have a link to that post - or remember who posted it and I'll search for it?

 

[human]

Texas Medicaid doesn’t pay for braces anymore unless it’s due to a significant issue like a cleft palate. Now, the kids would have had MN, OR, and WA Medicaids; and I have no clue their policies. Just saying that it’s an issue.

Not sure about MN but I know when I worked with families with poverty issues, finding a dentist was next to impkssible because of the paltry reimbursement rate,

Adults got false teeth if there were big issues. No crowns and whatever else.

 

[PearlClutcher]

Some posters don't think that looks like JH. Does anyone have recent photos of them all? I.e. a few months ago from their FB perhaps?.

I did not think that it looked like Jennifer until an article mentioned that she was wearing those clothes when they removed her body from the van. The lady in the photos looks like she is much older than 38 years, in my opinion.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ino-Cty-26-Mar-2018-6&p=14071676#post14071676

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...-remember-previous-foster-child-in-minnesota/

Precious little girls. So innocent. I cant imagine anyone striking any of them. Heartbteaking.

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[katsrfun]

I think they could easily had got medical for the kids to pay for braces. I know alot of medical insurances will fully paid for almost all childrens dental procedures.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Just a note regarding the teeth and braces; in the town I currently live in, several dentists will pick out children with extremely bad teeth and the parents can't pay, and with the help of teachers, they will do dental work, including braces, for free. They do this at Christmas as a gift to the community. Although since none of those kids went to school, I don't know if there would be a way they could be picked. Thanks, everyone, for caring for this family. Katt

 

[Zelda1010]

Which HPD traits do you think she may have exhibited the most?


IMO

I really couldn't delete any of these. The ones I didn't feel need further explanation are easily dismissed as "well, everyone is like that on FB and that's all we really have to go on" but being Histrionic doesn't always lead to the chaos we tend to see with NPD or BPD, from what I'm learning about it.

Plus, it is complicated and that's why we aren't supposed to diagnose anyone since there are so many factors to consider.

Clearly, imo, something was toxic in that home and it could just be an abuse problem, no PD or mental illness necessary, too.

But, here are my totally self educated opinions, since you asked.

Discomfort in situations in which you're not the center of attention [certainly she is comfortable at the center of her story in her own way...the foster girl's football...]

Interaction with others that's often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
[the mannequins?]

Rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotion [I have no way of knowing this one, I guess]

Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self [I feel she favors thin shots of herself and uses the kids as her proxy using them physically to draw attention to herself]

Style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail [Every FB post]

Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion[bday video]

Is easily influenced by others or by circumstances [possibly the relationship with Sarah, her "roommate" at first, then the adoption, the festival crowd, the BLM/political scene after that, it resulted in increased isolation as she sought out a new group to follow, possibly, imo...she might've just been easily influenced by Google & the internet in general if that makes sense]

Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are[other people certainly did consider her a close friend so I'm assuming she reciprocates that feeling for at least awhile, until she feels her facade can't hold up and she has to run again]

 

[bluesneakers]

Discomfort in situations in which you're not the center of attention [certainly she is comfortable at the center of her story in her own way...the foster girl's football...]

Interaction with others that's often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
[the mannequins?]

Rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotion [I have no way of knowing this one, I guess]

Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self [I feel she favors thin shots of herself and uses the kids as her proxy using them physically to draw attention to herself]

Style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail [Every FB post]

Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion[bday video]

Is easily influenced by others or by circumstances [possibly the relationship with Sarah, her "roommate" at first, then the adoption, the festival crowd, the BLM/political scene after that, it resulted in increased isolation as she sought out a new group to follow, possibly, imo...she might've just been easily influenced by Google & the internet in general if that makes sense]

Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are[other people certainly did consider her a close friend so I'm assuming she reciprocates that feeling for at least awhile, until she feels her facade can't hold up and she has to run again]


I really couldn't delete any of these. The ones I didn't feel need further explanation are easily dismissed as "well, everyone is like that on FB and that's all we really have to go on" but being Histrionic doesn't always lead to the chaos we tend to see with NPD or BPD, from what I'm learning about it.

Plus, it is complicated and that's why we aren't supposed to diagnose anyone since there are so many factors to consider. Clearly, imo, something was toxic in that home and it could just be an abuse problem, no PD or mental illness necessary, too.

Do you have any qualifications to make a dx like this?

 

[Sleuth99]

Just a note regarding the teeth and braces; in the town I currently live in, several dentists will pick out children with extremely bad teeth and the parents can't pay, and with the help of teachers, they will do dental work, including braces, for free. They do this at Christmas as a gift to the community. Although since none of those kids went to school, I don't know if there would be a way they could be picked. Thanks, everyone, for caring for this family. Katt

Wow that is epic [emoji1488]


IMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

I did not think that it looked like Jennifer until an article mentioned that she was wearing those clothes when they removed her body from the van. The lady in the photos looks like she is much older than 38 years, in my opinion.

I saw that about the clothes. Do you think that means they had the crash that same day/night and it just wasn't spotted till Monday p.m. ?

 

[Zelda1010]

Do you have any qualifications to make a dx like this?

I'm really not trying to make a dx. I was seeing borderline and narcissism being thrown about and thought I'd add another intriguing personality type to consider. I shared a link to back up the traits and used a lot of imo, moo, I believe... I was asked to expand so I did my best to back up my thoughts and still say...

It is complicated and that's why we aren't supposed to diagnose anyone since there are so many factors to consider.
Clearly, imo, something was toxic in that home and it could just be an abuse problem, no PD or mental illness necessary, too.

eta in fact I'll put that first in my post because I want it to be seen easily