CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[bluesneakers]

June 2017: Jennifer's rough year FB post.

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

.

SBM for space.

Please add:

2017- Hannah went to the neighbors' house in the middle of the night. (Not sure of exact date.)

November 2017: Neighbor Dana DeKalb's father called 911.

The latest revelation concerns an incident that took place four months before the Harts’ SUV careered into the ocean when one of the girls jumped out of a second-story window in her home and ran to a neighbor’s house.

It turns out that the incident was called in by DeKalb’s father-in-law, CNN reports.

He made the call to 911 in November, telling the operator what happened, and adding that she had come in at 2 a.m. “begging them to help her” but didn’t specify why she was scared

https://www.theroot.com/neighbors-father-called-911-after-hart-child-jumped-out-1825207505

Thanks.

 

[PearlClutcher]

Yeah I mean this isn't the De Kalb's fault. Had they reported earlier all of this likely would've just happened earlier.

Yep, that's the sad reality. No matter when the abuse would have been reported, the outcome probably would have been the same. CPS would have left a card on the door and the family would have bolted.

 

[human]

Snipped, and emphasis added by me, for space and emphasis

So the examples you gave and your response indicate that you don't think children's feelings are valid if they are of the type like "It was only used when we were whining because we didn't get our way on something that really would have been bad for us, but we didn't care because we were, by definition, immature children. So if we were whining because we couldn't have a third ice cream cone, or wailing because we wanted to go to Six Flags, or stomping and screaming because we were firmly-but-gently reminded not to throw a ball in the house, that's the kind of times when that line might be pulled out."

And I'm saying the feelings in those situations are actually valid and legitimate, and worthy of more of a reaction than just a curt "you wanna have something to cry about...." kinda BS response.

Parent's need to consider the perspective of the child. They need to know why they can't have a third ice cream cone, or why they can't go to Six Flags. I'm saying every situation can be one for learning about your child and offering them good teaching and wisdom. Teaching opportunities with children are infinite.

And, if you must know, I don't currently have children living with me--my only biological child was killed by his father when he was a infant/toddler, and my stepson, despite a big custody fight, lives with his bio mom. I never really lost patience with either of them, nor my 15 nieces and nephews or my 9 grand nieces and nephews.

Then I've been the teacher for hundreds of preschool students, both typically developing, developmentally delayed, and those with behavioral and emotional issues. I've never had to resort to threatening a child with violence. I'm lucky to have a natural strong patience, good training, good education, and good examples in my parents and older siblings.

I'm never going to agree that discounting children's feelings, regardless of how valid you deem them, because children have their own perspectives which are worthy of trying to understand and work through instead of being shut down as "whining."

I'm no Mother Theresa, but I recognize that discounting children's feelings is detrimental to both our relationships with them and for the child's emotional health.

You are so lucky! When I started teaching it was all about control. Write the kid’s name on the board for misbehavior. For parenting, 1,2,3.

It wasn’t until a few years later that I started getting the wonderful training. I even had training with the woman who did Don’t Move the Muffin Tins. She was more with creativity, but there were great things with her views.

So I get to stress about all of the inappropriate denial of children’s issues for years. Now we know better.

I so wish that these new methods would be used in all schools. It would chsnge America. I truly think there would be less abuse and less need for medications to deal with inner pain,

 

[waschbaer]

This REALLY makes me wonder what the rest of Jen's original plan was going to be:

"The image Bakhtiar paints, however, is one of contradictions. On one hand, she said Jennifer told her that the children would never be able to live normal, independent lives as adults – that they would never be able to marry or have children of their own.


On the other hand, Bakhtiar says the children she knew were smart and politically engaged and they were always dancing to music. She said they loved to read, and they were healthy, strong and physically active. She said they seemed younger than their years, but not immature."

http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

So she intended to keep them all in their childhood home regardless. This sounds so very cult-like. And I have heard it mentioned a few times that their "festival" scene at least intersects with a pretty famous local cult--the Osho cult. Just very curious.

 

[cady]

Is the Naselle connection even ON investigators' radar? There has to be some connection, even if the area was on a google search on one of their devices. If dogs and two kids were dumped there we would know it if they are alive. If they were dumped deceased and no one has bothered to look, it might be a good idea to freaking LOOK into it. There has to be a reason they went there....even if they were headed that direction and changed their minds to head south. JMO

 

[LeighB]

Parent's need to consider the perspective of the child. They need to know why they can't have a third ice cream cone, or why they can't go to Six Flags. I'm saying every situation can be one for learning about your child and offering them good teaching and wisdom.

I already said that the "give you something to cry about" response is not mutually exclusive with these things. That's because in reality, living with a child day after day, year after year, after giving the kind teaching response 47,000 times and before giving it another 47,000 times, sometimes good parents lose their patience and say the other thing. Sometimes it happens more than once in a lifetime, in a year, or even in a month, and the children still feel cherished, respected, and heard. Yes, really. I'm not discounting the lived experience of those who had this phrase thrown at them in abusive contexts, and I ask that you not discount mine, or try to tell me that my perspective or needs weren't considered just because it was used with me.

Also, I already said that I'm not justifying or using the phrase, but had one and only one purpose in discussing it, which I've said multiple times: to explain that using that phrase does NOT inherently mean that the children are ignored, emotionally repressed, dismissed, etc. Period. That is all. Done.

 

[Lilibet]

Is the Naselle connection even ON investigators' radar? There has to be some connection, even if the area was on a google search on one of their devices. If dogs and two kids were dumped there we would know it if they are alive. If they were dumped deceased and no one has bothered to look, it might be a good idea to freaking LOOK into it. There has to be a reason they went there....even if they were headed that direction and changed their minds to head south. JMO

I’m not sure that LE’s silence about their avenues of investigation means that they aren’t investigating. This assumption comes up on so many threads, and once the investigation is finished, it is clear that LE’s investigation was more thorough than even we incredibly smart WSers suggested. They are not stupid, although of course there have been incomplete investigations. But those are the exception. Some bodies are too well hidden to be found in searches (see my signature case, Kyron Horman, etc, etc.).

We do have to realize that searching for bodies requires at least a general idea of particular areas to search, and LE can’t just take cadaver dogs on private property without permission. So even though Naselle is a possible dumping ground, there is a vast area to cover if a random search is done. It’s not as simple as we would like it to be.
JMO

 

[longlonglake]

I don't know how to post links but I found an interesting article about child hoarding. It is at childmyths and the title is Megafamilies.

 

[longlonglake]

The second article is one about interracial adoption. I seem to be having problems writing posts. About a dozen times now, the internet stops working when I try to post or edit.

 

[?mysterian?]

Is the Naselle connection even ON investigators' radar? There has to be some connection, even if the area was on a google search on one of their devices. If dogs and two kids were dumped there we would know it if they are alive. If they were dumped deceased and no one has bothered to look, it might be a good idea to freaking LOOK into it. There has to be a reason they went there....even if they were headed that direction and changed their minds to head south. JMO

According to this article https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04...mily-off-northern-california-cliff-was-drunk/ investigators are still trying to determine why the Harts went to Naselle. I haven't seen any follow-up information released by LE.

 

[flourish]

I already said that the "give you something to cry about" response is not mutually exclusive with these things. That's because in reality, living with a child day after day, year after year, after giving the kind teaching response 47,000 times and before giving it another 47,000 times, sometimes good parents lose their patience and say the other thing. Sometimes it happens more than once in a lifetime, in a year, or even in a month, and the children still feel cherished, respected, and heard. Yes, really. I'm not discounting the lived experience of those who had this phrase thrown at them in abusive contexts, and I ask that you not discount mine, or try to tell me that my perspective or needs weren't considered just because it was used with me.

Also, I already said that I'm not justifying or using the phrase, but had one and only one purpose in discussing it, which I've said multiple times: to explain that using that phrase does NOT inherently mean that the children are ignored, emotionally repressed, dismissed, etc. Period. That is all. Done.

I certainly did not indicate anything about you personally. And I'm more concerned with children's feelings being discounted than yours as you're an adult who can presumably take other's words and perspectives from a mature adult standpoint.

<modsnip>

 

[Breamworthy]

Yeah I mean this isn't the De Kalb's fault. Had they reported earlier all of this likely would've just happened earlier.

But they did wait awhile before reporting after Devonte began coming to the house. And that was after they were aware of the Turpin case and Hannah.

Nevertheless, it can be hard to know what to do and hard to believe nice neighbors could be harboring a nightmare and ultimately they did the right thing.

This was my thinking previously, that it is so hard to believe something like this is actually happening. But if she isn't just exaggerating now, and she actually did see the Turpin story on the news and say to her husband "that's what's happening to the children next-door," that excuse goes out the window.

At that point, I don't see how you don't contact authorities. And sure, maybe the same thing would have happened, but she had no way of knowing that this would be the outcome. Statistically, the more likely outcome would be that CPS intervenes and the parents don't drive the children off a cliff.

 

[?mysterian?]

I’m not sure that LE’s silence about their avenues of investigation means that they aren’t investigating. This assumption comes up on so many threads, and once the investigation is finished, it is clear that LE’s investigation was more thorough than even we incredibly smart WSers suggested. They are not stupid, although of course there have been incomplete investigations. But those are the exception. Some bodies are too well hidden to be found in searches (see my signature case, Kyron Horman, etc, etc.).We do have to realize that searching for bodies requires at least a general idea of particular areas to search, and LE can’t just take cadaver dogs on private property without permission. So even though Naselle is a possible dumping ground, there is a vast area to cover if a random search is done. It’s not as simple as we would like it to be.JMO

Also, the ocean conditions have been too rough and unsafe for divers to enter the water. On 4/13/2018, this article http://kymkemp.com/2018/04/13/benad...no-crash-jen-hart-drunk-says-law-enforcement/ stated ocean conditions were expected to remain unsafe for several more days. From the Hart's home to the cliff Jen drove off of is a vast area to search. Hopefully LE has been able to focus on a particular area and will release some info soon.

 

[Emb72]

Is the Naselle connection even ON investigators' radar? There has to be some connection, even if the area was on a google search on one of their devices. If dogs and two kids were dumped there we would know it if they are alive. If they were dumped deceased and no one has bothered to look, it might be a good idea to freaking LOOK into it. There has to be a reason they went there....even if they were headed that direction and changed their minds to head south. JMO

My thoughts exactly. Naselle has huge rivers , alot of woods and acreage. I just have a bad feeling about the stop in Naselle.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Good suggestions. I added Safeway to the timeline. I also added a mention about the Naselle, WA in the Newport OR entry. I can't really give it it's own entry, because I can't find any information about what time they stopped there.

March 2004: Earliest known public record that shows Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gengler, both from South Dakota, residing in Alexandria, Minnesota.

Summer 2004: The Harts take in a foster child named Lee. Then they later abandoned her the next Spring after they dropped her off at a therapist’s appointment, never to see her again.

May 2005: Sarah Hart petitions to change her last name from Gengler to Hart.

September 2006: Jennifer and Sarah Hart adopt siblings Markis, Abigail and Hannah.

September 2008: According to a police report from Alexandria, Minnesota, Hannah, then 6, tells authorities that one of her mothers bruised her with a belt. Asked about the beating, Jennifer and Sarah Hart tell a police investigator and social worker the girl had fallen down the stairs.

February 2009: Jennifer and Sarah adopt Devonte and two of his siblings — bringing their number of children to six. An article from Paper Trail, a New Zealand-based news outlet, describes his adoption. The article said by age 4, the boy had been abused, neglected, shot at and had endured other traumas.

September 1, 2009: Jennifer and Sarah Hart are married in Connecticut, Jennifer is listed as the groom and Sarah is listed as the bride.

November 2010: Police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, 6 at the time, after a teacher discovers bruises stretching from her sternum to her navel. The girl says Jennifer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath, then hit her again, court records show. She was then grounded, the girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch.

December 2010: Alexandria, MN home listed for sale.

April 2011: Sarah Hart pleads guilty to abusing Abigail Hart and is sentenced to a year of probation for misdemeanor domestic assault, court records show. Sarah told police she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities her mother Jennifer had done it. The next day, all six of the Hart children are taken out of public schools. They never attend public school again.

October 2011: The family lives in Alexandria, Minnesota, for a time and takes part in local activism. Hart family members including Devonte and Jennifer Hart participate in an Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.

2012: According to friends in Oregon, Sarah Hart travels to Portland to look for work. Jennifer Hart and their children later join her. Hannah loses front teeth after allegedly falling in house acceding to Jen's FB post.

August 2012: Alexandria MN house re-listed for sale.

October 2012: Sarah begins work at Kohls in Oregon (Sarah's LinkedIn resume).

December 2012: Jennifer and kids travel to Oregon, getting a ride with the Lees after rollover accident in Missoula According to Statesman Journal article.

April 2013- Alexandria, MN house sold. The family moves to West Linn, family friend Alexandra Argyropoulos tells Oregon child welfare officials that the Hart parents have been depriving their kids of food as punishment, she says. The Harts break off contact with her when they learn of it. Argyropoulos says she was told the Hart children had been interviewed by Oregon officials; it was apparent that each child had been coached by their mothers on what to say; and nothing more could be done by the Oregon Department of Human Services.

2013: Portland Portland musician of the band Nahko and Medicine for the People Ribner began offering music classes to the Hart children. The Hart children also started volunteering at the Good Neighbor Family Pantry

July 2013: The police department responds to a call to the Hart's house.

November 2014: Family members participate in a Portland protest of a Missouri grand jury declining to indict a Ferguson police officer in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Devonte and a Portland police officer hug, and the photo of the moment goes viral.

March 2016: Family members join U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont onstage during a presidential campaign rally in Vancouver.

May 2017: Jennifer and Sarah Hart buy a two-story, 3-bedroom home on 2 acres of land in the Woodland area of Clark County, Washington, property records show.

June 2017: Jennifer's rough year FB post.

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts without success to make contact with the Hart family.

March 24, 2018 - 3:00 AM: Sarah Hart sends a middle-of-the-night text message to friend Cheryl Hart, only hours after child protective services first visited the family's home, saying she was so sick she might have to go to the hospital. The friend never made contact again.

March 24, 2018 - 8:14 AM: The family is in or around Newport, Oregon, after a stop in Naselle, Washington. It's believed they continue south on Route 101 until they reach State Route 1 in Leggett, California.

March 24, 2018 - 8:00 PM The Harts travel south on State Route 1 until they reach the Fort Bragg area in Mendocino.

March 25, 2018 - 8:05 a.m. Jennifer Hart appears alone on surveillance video at a Safeway in Fort Bragg, buying bananas and several other items.

March 25, 2018 - 9:00 PM: The family leaves Fort Bragg.

March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again unsuccessfully attempts to make contact with the Hart family. They call 911 and ask the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on the family.

March 26, 2018 - 1:15 PM: Cheryl Hart calls 911 and asked the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on Sarah Hart. "Nobody has been able to get ahold of her, talk to her or seen her since," she told the dispatcher.

March 26, 2018: A passer-by along Highway 1 in Westport, California, calls 911 after looking down a 100-foot embankment and seeing an SUV upside down on the rocky shoreline. Five people are found dead: three children outside the SUV and two women inside.

March 27, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services makes a third unsuccessful attempt to contact the Hart family.

March 28, 2018: The women are identified by the Mendocino County's Sheriff's Office as Jennifer and Sarah Hart and their children as Markis, Jeremiah and Abigail. Three of their other children: Devonte, Hannah and Sierra, remain missing. Sheriff Tom Allman said a search is ongoing for the remaining three children.

March 29, 2018: Police continue to search for the three missing children, including Devonte, and to investigate why the SUV plunged off the California cliff. Authorities don't know if the kids were also in the car, but are basing their search on the assumption that they were thrown from the car into the cliffs or the surf.

March 31, 2018: Officials reveal the speedometer on the Harts' wrecked SUV was "pinned" at 90 mph.

April 2, 2018: Officials say the crash may have been intentional, saying data taken from the family's SUV shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at the Route 1 pullout before speeding off the cliff. The search for the missing children becomes a "recovery effort."

April 2, 2018: "I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident, I'm calling it a crime," Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman tells HLN's Ashleigh Banfield.

April 7, 2018: An unidentified body, believed to be that of a black female, is found in the ocean near the site of the crash. Officials said an identification could take weeks.

It shows as around 3 hours drive from Naselle to Newport which would put them in Naselle at around 5 a.m. just a couple of hours after the 3 a.m. text from S to a friend.

Wondered if you want to put that in as an estimated time for Naselle?

From Woodland to Naselle is 1.5 hours drive so how do we know they went to Naselle? Did they spend the night there? They went North to Naselle then south to Newport?

 

[deugirtni]

In a few articles. They kept saying that the kids had eating disorder/hoarding issues to explain away their claims of having food withheld. Then their friend Nasheen said they told her the kids would never be able to move out, have jobs, get married. All 6. http://www.koin.com/news/crashes/jennifer-hart-friend-im-more-confused-than-before/1129169442

Thanks for that..... has Nasheen been quoted in any media, saying the things she was told about the parents not having an outlook of an independent adulthood for the kids? Also, have any other media aside from the koin.com article reported the same?

 

[Lilibet]

This was my thinking previously, that it is so hard to believe something like this is actually happening. But if she isn't just exaggerating now, and she actually did see the Turpin story on the news and say to her husband "that's what's happening to the children next-door," that excuse goes out the window.

At that point, I don't see how you don't contact authorities. And sure, maybe the same thing would have happened, but she had no way of knowing that this would be the outcome. Statistically, the more likely outcome would be that CPS intervenes and the parents don't drive the children off a cliff.

I understand the frustration, but what exactly was Dana DeKalb supposed to report at that point that would be actionable? “The Turpin children were never seen outside and my neighbor’s kids are never seen outside so I think the kids are being abused like the Turpins”? I don’t think LE and CPS are going to come out for that. They hadn’t come out for the belated third party Hannah report. How could CPS intervene if Dana reported just a similarity to the Turpins? I know we wish more could have been done, and most of us would have reported Hannah immediately, but in January there was nothing to report. Even Devonte asking for food in March seemed like a one off until the amount he requested escalated and he asked if they had called. Then they reported. JMO

 

[human]

I am sad to say that I doubt the family traitors named Devonte and Hannah would be released somewhere to live. That makes no sense.

It is possible that they know the Naselle area quite well.

As far as the DeKalbs, I have said it a ton of times, These people probably have never been exposed to abuse or have had training.

We who are on WS are totally different. I have been educated on here in so many ways. I read on here because frankly, I know no one in real life who cares about crimes. They read the headlines and that is it.

I think for most people it would be an off hand remark about the Turpins. Then facts start adding up and the mind says, &#8220;Hey. Wait a minute!&#8221;

I feel most people look for the good in others and assume people are OK.
We on WS may be a bit more suspicious but I bet most of us don&#8217;t think the worst of people until given several reasons.

 

[flourish]

It shows as around 3 hours drive from Naselle to Newport which would put them in Naselle at around 5 a.m. just a couple of hours after the 3 a.m. text from S to a friend.

Wondered if you want to put that in as an estimated time for Naselle?

From Woodland to Naselle is 1.5 hours drive so how do we know they went to Naselle? Did they spend the night there? They went North to Naselle then south to Newport?

Hi! Good to see you! You left after our conversation yesterday and didn't get a chance to answer the questions posed, so hopefully since you're around today you'll take the time to do so.

 

[Aescwynn]

It shows as around 3 hours drive from Naselle to Newport which would put them in Naselle at around 5 a.m. just a couple of hours after the 3 a.m. text from S to a friend.

Wondered if you want to put that in as an estimated time for Naselle?

From Woodland to Naselle is 1.5 hours drive so how do we know they went to Naselle? Did they spend the night there? They went North to Naselle then south to Newport?

IIRC, there is cell phone ping data from Naselle.