CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[Stunned]

Yeah, thinking about it, even if it was her choice she was cooped up in that house all day every day with six teenagers. She had no friends or family close by to hang out with, just Sarah and the kids. No job, no social life. It's just asking to get sick.

Add how hard winters in the PNW can be on a person's mood. The last six months were probably hell for everyone.

When I moved from always paradise to NC. Where it is also wonderful, My first winter.....oh my! Grey just gets greyer. But, couldn't be worse than Minnesota, which I also lived in for 10 months!

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[human]

When I moved from always paradise to NC. Where it is also wonderful, My first winter.....oh my! Grey just gets greyer. But, couldn't be worse than Minnesota, which I also lived in for 10 months!

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My husband lived in Beaverton for the months of December and January. He xould nott take the cold which goes through you . He said he could not take the grey. He ledt to MN when it was minus 30 in Minn.

The PNW apparently has a high suicide rate. South Dakota probably has a lot more sun.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Much haste and backed out in the dark along the side of the house turning too soon in her haste and toppling the end blocks on the driveway wall as she turned to drive forward out the long shared driveway

Yes, I think that they may have crashed that same night and was not spotted until the next day. I also wouldn't be surprised if none of them changed clothes that entire trip. I'm not even sure if they took any bags/suitcases with them on the trip. It looks like they may have left the home in a haste.

 

[Stunned]

My husband lived in Beaverton for the months of December and January. He xould nott take the cold which goes through you . He said he could not take the grey. He ledt to MN when it was minus 30 in Minn.

The PNW apparently has a high suicide rate. South Dakota probably has a lot more sun.

Yeah. After moving north. I could see, unfortionly why so many suicides in winter.

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[dancinunderthemoon]

Only problem I would have with this is that she seemed to avoid people except at festivals, but that could be simply from the abuse... The histrionic people I know are not introverts, EVER but... Abuse here so idk

I just wanted to chime in with the WTH was wrong with Jen (and/or Sarah) conversation. NPD and BPD are thrown around a lot and both seem fitting to some degree, but Histrionic is an intriguing possibility in this case, to me.

For anyone unfamiliar with Histrionic Personality, here are the criteria. This article is comparing Histrionic to Borderline, but I've seen it compared with narcissism too.



HPD is one of 10 personality disorders recognized in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5). HPD is one of the Cluster B disorders, which are characterized as dramatic, overly emotional, and/or erratic.

The DSM-5 defines histrionic personality disorder as a pattern of extreme emotionality and attention seeking behavior that begins by early adulthood and is obvious in different situations. In addition, you must have five or more of the following signs or symptoms to be diagnosed with HPD:

Discomfort in situations in which you're not the center of attention

Interaction with others that's often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior

Rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotion

Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self

Style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail

Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion

Is easily influenced by others or by circumstances

Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are
https://www.verywellmind.com/histronic-personality-disorder-425425


And, moo, I believe Sarah probably had her own disfunctional personality going on, maybe from cluster C (OCD or avoidant perhaps), but...

I'm not convinced there wasn't partner abuse in this relationship either. But unless someone who lived in that house is miraculously found alive, I wonder if we'll ever know for sure. I suppose there is plenty of time for more information to come out.

(OT I cannot thank the person who posted the Lundy Bancroft book enough. I can't locate your post right now, or remember the name, but thank you.)

 

[bluesneakers]

Suicide Mortality by State






States With The Highest Suicide Rates In US

1 Alaska 21.8
2 Montana 20.5
3 New Mexico 20.4
4 Wyoming 19.3
5 Nevada 18.4
6 Colorado 16.7
7 West Virgina 16.6
8 Arizona 16
9 Oregon 15.9
10 Kentucky 15.3
11 Idaho 14.9

 

[bluesneakers]

My husband lived in Beaverton for the months of December and January. He xould nott take the cold which goes through you . He said he could not take the grey. He ledt to MN when it was minus 30 in Minn.

The PNW apparently has a high suicide rate. South Dakota probably has a lot more sun.

According to the CDC data South Dakota has a higher suicide rate than Oregon and Washington.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm

 

[musemoon]

My heart goes out to you in this, as well as to your daughter. The hardest part of being a parent is being so acutely aware when they are badly hurting and we can't make it better. I hope her doctors find effective treatment that restores balance and a healthy outlook. :hug:

Thank you so much. I hope the doctors can help her....she deserves a happy life they are moving her to a pediatric psych hospital tomorrow I pray she heals. I guess this is what foster adoption is too....apart from raising a kiddo of a different ethnicity, from a different family and with issues you may never foresee, you have to pray your beautiful child gets the same chance at a happy life everyone else does she didn't deserve any of this.

 

[mtnlites]

According to the CDC data South Dakota has a higher suicide rate than Oregon and Washington.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm

My state is on that list. I imagine it's due to our rampant drug abuse. Unfortunately, I know from experience that accidental drug overdoses are often listed as suicides for coding purposes. (In some states they're counted as "accidental deaths" but in others they are not. States get to choose how they code in these matters.) We're also one of the highest states in the country for drug abuse so I can see how these two go together.

 

[fridaybaker]

First, I agree with that protest. I can´t understand why men can walk around bare chested and women can´t. Men´s nipples don´t even serve a purpose (that I know of!)
Women´s nipples are a source of nurture and life - why is that "shameful"?
Oh well, we could have a long conversation about that, but back to the case.

To me Jen´s sawing off the nipples tells me she was deeply disturbed. The act (to me) indicates misogyni and sadism. Ultimately, self hatred since she was a woman.

Sata, I agree, sawing off the nipples is strange/over reaction/lack of perspective, whether she liked them or not. I think "disturbed" is an excellent characterization.

Regarding the women's nipples in general, though, I'd have to say the covering-up is more due to the opposite of shame: Sacred/beautiful and to be private -not for the view of the masses.

 

[babyblujems]

Saying this allowed her to be both a victim of circumstance and a hero....she’s such a self-sacrificing mother blah blah blah. I wonder if anyone ever challenged her and said “So what are you doing to help them reach their full potential?” But she would have cut that person out of her life immediately.

It amazes me that she never spoke to her father again after he sent her back to live with her mother because she was abusing his trust. As has been said before, she was a classic injustice collector. Having 6 “disabled” children of color played right along with that scenario.
JMO

It also gave her a pass when things went wrong. If she failed the kids or they didn't turn out *exactly* as she wanted it would allow her to blame the unspecified "disability"

 

[PearlClutcher]

There is a photo floating around with Devonte using an inhaler so they obviously sought out some medical care.


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On the photo shared by Lonely Child, Thread 1, post #857, it looks like Devonte may have a filling. So maybe dental care was sought for the kids or maybe just sought for Devonte since he seems to be the favorite. Maybe it's just a shadow on his bottom molar?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...rt-12-Mendocino-County-26-March-2018-1/page58

https://goo.gl/images/XudTk6

 

[Sleuth99]

Sata, I agree, sawing off the nipples is strange/over reaction/lack of perspective, whether she liked them or not. I think "disturbed" is an excellent characterization.

Regarding the women's nipples in general, though, I'd have to say the covering-up is more due to the opposite of shame: Sacred/beautiful and to be private -not for the view of the masses.

The sawing made me think of mutilation, torture, and violence.


IMO

 

[PearlClutcher]

I feel that sometimes in this case we get overly hung up on one or two words that have been recounted casually, or paraphrased, in a media interview not a formal LE deposition.

<snip>



Have to be careful with articles. I had an interview with a reporter a few months ago about my recent heart transplant. The reporter made up some things that I NEVER said and embellished some things. Now I question things written by reporters. I don't know which things are true sometimes after having my own experience.

I just kinda figured that the reporter who interviewed me had to make the story more interesting. That may be the case with the Harts (and lots of other "news") as well.

 

[human]

http://m.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=fort bragg&state_abr=ca

Hope this works. Its a cell tower map Fort Bragg/Cleone/Westport and appears to show Cleone tower was the last heading North so may indicate why no location for them after that. The map shows the next tower north of Westport being Rockport and they didn't make it to there unfortunately.

In MN where I lived it was hilly. I had no cell phone reception. My son had some kind of booster thing on his phone because of work. There were dead zones where I lived everywhere.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Have to be careful with articles. I had an interview with a reporter a few months ago about my recent heart transplant. The reporter made up some things that I NEVER said and embellished some things. Now I question things written by reporters. I don't know which things are true sometimes after having my own experience.

I just kinda figured that the reporter who interviewed me had to make the story more interesting. That may be the case with the Harts (and lots of other "news") as well.[/QUOTE]Fake News, right?

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[gitana1]

I don't see people saying there is NO drug use, so much as denying that it is a pervasive presence (which is a matter of subjective opinion) or that a majority of those in attendance are indulging in illegal substances (which is up for empirical analysis and anecdotal argument). And I have to say I fall on the side of those arguing against the idea that all festivals are awash in illegal substances.

I've been active in the folk/art/cultural festival scene for 25+ years, starting when my child was under 5 years old and we'd take him out for a day of music, facepainting and other fun. We've done this now in 3 different countries. And of course in that time we've seen some attendees partaking in mind-altering substances. But a majority of fest-goers whacked out on drugs? No. An unsafe environment for a child accompanied by an adult? No.

Maybe that's my bubble, and it's different elsewhere, or at truly gigantic festivals (over 20,000). I dunno. I tend to think it's a pretty big bubble I'm in though. There is some intersection between my mostly east-coast US/Canada crowd of friends and artists, and the Harts' west-coast scene. We've got Burners who camp with us. They're not getting stoned either. And I haven't gotten wind of any cultish religious gurus holding sway over the festival organizers or artists, much less the crowd at large.

At one of our annual festivals we run a large camp for longtime friends as well as some musicians, and often outsiders stop by to enjoy an impromptu performance or to socialize. Yeteven with these strangers dropping by randomly during a week out on the farm, there's no problem with establishing boundaries or respecting our own camp's "boring middle aged folks/parents" culture. The hardest substance we generally encounter is alcohol, which flows at our own bar anyway (a bar which is always tended or locked away, so kids can't get into it.) And if some random stroller should perchance bring out a bowl, as has happened exactly once in our camp's 19 years, a request to them to take it elsewhere, away from the kids and the adults who don't want to be exposed to it, is all that's needed. No aggression, no hostility.

I saw way more drugs on the campus of my suburban high school in the '70s, in the bathrooms and courtyard, than I've ever seen at a folk festival. My son saw way more drugs in his own high school a generation later. And there are way more strung-out people on public transit, way more drunks at the stadium during a major-league game &#8211; and far more likelihood of being physically/sexually assaulted at either. The festival scene is truly bucolic by comparison, even if the hippies do dress funny, and act blissed-out, and buy their kids animal costumes. As for the performers, they're working a pretty gruelling schedule, multiple performances each day, in conditions ranging from 90ºF+ in the daytime to maybe 45ºF at night, sometimes in full summer-thunderstorm mode, on top of hiking all over expansive festival grounds. Most of them aren't indulging in more than a cold energy drink or a cup of coffee either (or maybe a late-night Scotch) so long as they're on the outdoor-festival circuit.

Just my opinion, just my experience, just my POV.

Thank you so much for that. I feel there are some assumptions about what happens at these events. I've been going since childhood - I'm 49- and it's ALWAYS been a less aggressive environment than other crowded events in my experience. Less aggressive, seems friendlier, safer. I have never once heard of an episode of drunken sexual harassment or rape for example.

My family worked the Renaissance Faire for a few decades starting when I was a kid. And I saw what happened after hours with all the performers, artisans, musicians, sellers, etc. Yes, I did see some drug use starting when I was old enough to know what I was seeing (and to stay up) but it was never extreme. Zero violence. Very peaceful.

Like I said previously, I've witnessed much more violence, drunkenness, lewdness, etc., at DISNEYLAND than I have ever seen at one of these events. Definitely more at a baseball game which is supposed to be family friendly.

These women were creeps. But not because they went to such gentle events or took their kids to them.

 

[human]

On the photo shared by Lonely Child, Thread 1, post #857, it looks like Devonte may have a filling. So maybe dental care was sought for the kids or maybe just sought for Devonte since he seems to be the favorite. Maybe it's just a shadow on his bottom molar?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...rt-12-Mendocino-County-26-March-2018-1/page58

https://goo.gl/images/XudTk6

Do dentists still use mercury fillings?

 

[CocoChanel]

Have to be careful with articles. I had an interview with a reporter a few months ago about my recent heart transplant. The reporter made up some things that I NEVER said and embellished some things. Now I question things written by reporters. I don't know which things are true sometimes after having my own experience.

I just kinda figured that the reporter who interviewed me had to make the story more interesting. That may be the case with the Harts (and lots of other "news") as well.

Same thing happened to me when I was interviewed for our local paper about my then 6-year-old daughter’s juvenile rheumatoid athritis, now called juvenile idiopathic arthritis. It was an innocuous article that helped spread awareness of JIA, but when I read it, none of it sounded like what I thought I said. It was a weird feeling, and made me cautious of taking the news at face value. But the alternative is to not believe anything we read because it would be impossible to fact-check entire news reports. I am truly disheartened about the state of news journalism and not quite sure how to approach it anymore.

 

[human]

Wherever there are people, there will be opportumists. Going fishing in the desert does not work. So people with nefarious intentions go where people have their guard down,

It is disingenuous to say that there is not a lot of drug use at music events. Think of the Beatles, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain and on and on.Of course, I am a child of the 60&#8221;s where drug use was very very common.

I do not see what rhe status of festivals has to do with the murder by either one or both of those women.

The only thing I see is that their friendships were very shallow. It does not seem anyone really knew much about them except the show that they were presenting.

It seems everyone of their &#8220;friends&#8221; bought their exhibit except Alexandra.

I am on a FB group with people I graduated high school with in 1967. There were over 400 in my class.

It seems like everyone knows someone. Some funny ancedotes about classmates, teachers, events, etc. It is so strange to me that no one talks about the fun times they had or any anecdotes. Of course, as far as I know, there were no murderers in my class so I don&#8217;t know how people would respond.