ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[Sleuth99]

What do you want to talk about, Sleuth99?

illowfight2: [emoji14]

[emoji38] allow me to redirect... i think it's very interesting that the golden child (Devonte) and the scapegoat/rebel possibly (Hannah) have not been found...and I think about your dream with two children... something is up!


IMO

 

[Swirlz]

It sounds like Devonte and his siblings were victims of Attachment Therapy.

 

[SATA]

[emoji38] allow me to redirect... i think it's very interesting that the golden child (Devonte) and the scapegoat/rebel possibly (Hannah) have not been found...and I think about your dream with two children... something is up!


IMO

Just got goose bumps right there!

That is one reason I hang on to this case - well, the main reason.
If they are found in the ocean soon, there probably are not additional crimes, if the forensics aren´t different to the other children.
If they are not found soon (possibly bodies will be too badly damaged with time to get causes of death) or at all, we will never know.

We need those kids found!

 

[SATA]

It sounds like Devonte and his siblings were victims of Attachment Therapy.

Whoa, can´t even read this, too awful - is it for real?

 

[Mira_Eg]

Omg these articles just break my heart into pieces!

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Somebody should sue this police department for not acting properly. There must be an investigation into this. IMO

 

[Mira_Eg]

Well, I'm glad to see a part of the DeKalb's experience is verified here. I believe them. I don't blame them, but I am a little concerned about Mr DeKalb.......

I assume this gentleman either felt bad bout not reporting the original incident immediately or he witnessed a further abuse that wasn't that serious as the previous one, so he called the police providing data about the old incident assuming that would encourage authorities to take action. Is there a sort of code or protocol to deal with these cases rather than referring the caller to another agency, the CPS here? What if the person, this senior citizen who reported the abuse, wasn't fully aware of the process and procedures? They should have passed the whole recorded call and its details to the CPS to interfere

 

[babyblujems]

Thank you for this insightful post.

Bbm: maybe this is where Devonte was at in running to the neighbors multiple times per day.

And maybe their trips were the making nice phase? Can't know if that is true about this last trip... I have a feeling it might have been horrible. Because these women didn't answer the door, they didn't know if the sheriff was going to show up. And which child did they blame for blowing their cover?

Also, what in earth was the relationship like between these two women? I can't imagine it was healthy. In some way I wonder if the scenario wasn't more about the two of them and driving off the cliff was the ultimate last straw?

And in this final act, it really shows the true disconnect with these innocent children. Worrying about a reputation over innocent lives is shattering. And we'll never know.

There is much that we still don't know and it might take a long time to put the pieces together in this case because these two women were secretive. IMO.

Like much of the early reporting I had hoped they would find something that would indicate auto malfunction, or something. But I don't think LE publishes findings without being really certain, or knowing the auto's functionality, records, etc.

And, like everyone here, it is beyond my comprehension. Too heartbreaking for words.

It's quite possible the trips were part of the honeymoon phase. I even wondered if the move to OR was as well. They were out in public a lot, attended festivals and prior to this there was a severe discovered form of abuse. At this point we will never know the extent of damage done to the children's emotional and mental health but I sincerely believe that this phase allowed them to have some amazing life experiences. They may have even felt an overwhelming amount of "love" from their moms during this period. Due to reports, I believe it did cycle this time and there may have been a lot of denial. Such as well this isn't what happened in MN so it's not as bad. Of course once investigations began they high tailed it out and isolated the family further. In an abusive relationship complete isolation and leaving are turning points. Isolation gives complete control, even making the victim think they have no way out. Leaving is the ultimate betrayal, it tarnished the pride of the abuser and makes them face what they have done which is why it is the most dangerous time for a victim.

 

[Swirlz]

Whoa, can´t even read this, too awful - is it for real?

Unfortunately, t's real. The advocate who runs the website also has a Facebook page called Attachment Therapy Is Wrong.

 

[kizzykat]

Whoa, can´t even read this, too awful - is it for real?

I followed Swirlz's link and at the bottom of that page clicked a link that took me to Attachment Therapy video snippets. I found them rattling to watch and couldn't bear more than a minute or so of a few videos.
http://www.childrenintherapy.org/videos.html

 

[babyblujems]

I'm sure you are right about why the case affected you so much. I can't imagine. I hope the WS thread brought you some feeling of camaraderie, if not closure.

I imagine something like the dynamics you're describing in the Hart home after the 2010 abuse allegations. By the time the investigation was all said and done, there were probably 8 different versions of what happened in that house that day. And they were likely all slightly, or completely, different. Some kids siding with one mom, some siding with the other. Poor Abigail. If you can't rely on your own memory because you have not just the abuser but 2 or 3 or 5 people you love telling you that you're wrong, mistaken, confused, loved... it'll be ok, we're sorry.

The more cases I follow the more I feel like all abuse is a mental health problem as much as or more than a criminal problem. Like substance abuse, I guess.

I don't know whether to start calling legislators or start knocking on doors in the neighborhood for random wellness checks. I'm leaning towards the latter. A good old fashioned neighborhood busy body with a plate of cookies....with gluten free, sugar free, vegan options of course!

A lot of abuse is about power, even with addiction. I can't tell you the amount of times an addict has told me that they are in complete control of their addiction and in the same paragraph describe how they can't live without their drug of choice.

I do wonder if DeVonte was losing his place as the golden child. Maybe he chose to protect Hannah after the incident with the DeKalbs. Or maybe he had matured and realized how wrong everything they were going through was. I can't shake the feeling that his meetings with them were originally a cover for J&S and he was told to present a good, happy picture. Then imagine the betrayal and anger from them towards him when they discovered what happened.

 

[human]

It sounds like Devonte and his siblings were victims of Attachment Therapy.

OMG! My friend’s friend adopted a child who had RAD and she went to a therapist who must have been a practitioner of this. It was not successful.

I thought the holding as if an infant was good but I did not realize what it really was. And the complete attachment to the mother I thought was bizarre.

The boy was adopted at four and as a teen was still smearing feces on the walls and peeing in the closet. It was a foreign adoption.

Now I wonder it this therapy led to even worse problems.

Do you remember the women who were charged with murder because they put a child into a blanket to recreate the birth experience? The child died. I think it was Colorado.

 

[Kas80]

I think one of the Jon and Kate plus 8 kids is in one of those facilities. He basically just disappeared.

 

[Sleuth99]

It sounds like Devonte and his siblings were victims of Attachment Therapy.

Nah... they need to just call it child abuse and maybe have degrees to it to identify types but I can't associate the word therapy with none of this. [emoji860]Throw the whole term away!


IMO

 

[human]

Candace Newmaker is the child that died during an attachment therapy session.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Newmaker

 

[human]

The boy who was sent back to Russia

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/13/us/adopted-child-returned/index.html

 

[Sleuth99]

A lot of abuse is about power, even with addiction. I can't tell you the amount of times an addict has told me that they are in complete control of their addiction and in the same paragraph describe how they can't live without their drug of choice.

I do wonder if DeVonte was losing his place as the golden child. Maybe he chose to protect Hannah after the incident with the DeKalbs. Or maybe he had matured and realized how wrong everything they were going through was. I can't shake the feeling that his meetings with them were originally a cover for J&S and he was told to present a good, happy picture. Then imagine the betrayal and anger from them towards him when they discovered what happened.

Yep I did think they felt betrayed and wanted to teach him and Hannah a lesson for "causing" this (too sick in the head to take responsibility)


IMO

 

[Swirlz]

Candace Newmaker is the child that died during an attachment therapy session.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Newmaker

More info about Candace Newmaker here: http://www.childrenintherapy.org/victims/newmaker.html

 

[LonelyChild]

Since it was discussed on here about believing the kids about the child anuse waaaay too manh things point in that direction for them to be lying.

- Abby said it years ago when she went to school with bruises that the parents withold food as punishment. One of the children also agreed with her that they do this.

- One time when Devonte and Hannah (or Sierra) went out for the day with friends they returned with food. When they didnt want to share Sarah called them greedy, pigs and selfish.

- Devonte would later tell neighbors the exact samething as Abby did years before. If it was a lie, several of the kids wouldn't be making it up. Also for what its worth I have a child and he would never ever be at our neighbors begging for help and food.

- these photos speak for themselves.

The photos on Jens fb.

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[msphilosopher]

Gosh, I just want to rewind time and save these children.

 

[flourish]

I don't recall any posts here indicating, implying, or otherwise stating that the children were lying regarding the food and hunger.

I know that I posted wondering about RAD and the disordered relationship with food which sometimes co-occurs. Some children with those issues don't feel satiation or don't recognize it or otherwise don't process satiation the same way, and/or have psychological issues from lack of food prior...like kids who hoard food after being well-fed in foster care for years after being neglected or actively starved by family of origin.

There is a difference between wondering the dynamics and possible underlying issues and wondering if the perception is an accurate reflection of reality and accusing the children of lying!!!

I would hope that if there have actually been posts here accusing the children of lying, that they have been reported. But, as much as I've seen people stating that's been said here, I've not actually seen it. My suspicion is that's because it has never actually been said, or even implied, just that people have repeatedly inferred that regardless of accuracy.

Again, the story of the woman who said Sarah bruised Sierra's (I think it was Sierra I'm sorry if i'm wrong) wrist at the Ashland music festival and called her "selfish" because she didn't share her food is the biggest red flag, IMO, because it corroborates everything the children has said.

I'm not going to try to explain this again (if I can help it), so if people want to twist my words into saying I'm calling the children liars, fine, have at it, but at this point it says nothing about me, as that has not been my point nor implications, nor statements. So irritated.