ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[Zelda1010]

Thank you, it's not an easy weight to live with especially since I was pregnant while working with him and the final abusive moment happened 10 days before I gave birth. He is/was two weeks older then my older son which is part of why I took it so hard I think. Never mind the resulting investigation of me in my immediate postpartum life. I will say searching for him recently is what led me to this site and I devoured the whole thread on him.
As for the abuse cycle, I think that most people only see it as being used in patner violence but that's not true. Having the addition of other children created other dynamics too especially if there are one or two favored. The favored children are then able to play along and reinforce the belief that it was the victim's fault the abuse happens and sometimes may be encouraged to participate to show loyalty to the parents. I'm not saying that happened here but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the escalation that led to DeVonte seeking help.

I'm sure you are right about why the case affected you so much. I can't imagine. I hope the WS thread brought you some feeling of camaraderie, if not closure.

I imagine something like the dynamics you're describing in the Hart home after the 2010 abuse allegations. By the time the investigation was all said and done, there were probably 8 different versions of what happened in that house that day. And they were likely all slightly, or completely, different. Some kids siding with one mom, some siding with the other. Poor Abigail. If you can't rely on your own memory because you have not just the abuser but 2 or 3 or 5 people you love telling you that you're wrong, mistaken, confused, loved... it'll be ok, we're sorry.

The more cases I follow the more I feel like all abuse is a mental health problem as much as or more than a criminal problem. Like substance abuse, I guess.

I don't know whether to start calling legislators or start knocking on doors in the neighborhood for random wellness checks. I'm leaning towards the latter. A good old fashioned neighborhood busy body with a plate of cookies....with gluten free, sugar free, vegan options of course!

 

[SATA]

Thank you for this insightful post.

Bbm: maybe this is where Devonte was at in running to the neighbors multiple times per day.

And maybe their trips were the making nice phase? Can't know if that is true about this last trip... I have a feeling it might have been horrible. Because these women didn't answer the door, they didn't know if the sheriff was going to show up. And which child did they blame for blowing their cover?

Also, what in earth was the relationship like between these two women? I can't imagine it was healthy. In some way I wonder if the scenario wasn't more about the two of them and driving off the cliff was the ultimate last straw?

And in this final act, it really shows the true disconnect with these innocent children. Worrying about a reputation over innocent lives is shattering. And we'll never know.

There is much that we still don't know and it might take a long time to put the pieces together in this case because these two women were secretive. IMO.

Like much of the early reporting I had hoped they would find something that would indicate auto malfunction, or something. But I don't think LE publishes findings without being really certain, or knowing the auto's functionality, records, etc.

And, like everyone here, it is beyond my comprehension. Too heartbreaking for words.

Or which children?

The two that are (most likely) missing are the two who had the guts to seek help.

That in itself is interesting.
I just hope they find them soon so it can be cleared up whether additional crimes were committed.

 

[KaaBoom]

Wait...I just read that article and it says "cars kept moving in and out over the weekend". Didn't they leave on friday? This confuses me.

That is not an exact quote. The exact quote: "Correct, I've knocked on the door twice. Different cars have been moving in and out, I've noticed, so I feel like someone's there."

It was her feeling that someone was home and they were not answering the door. So she was trying to get the police involved. Her feeling was probably correct the first time, she visited the house. Obviously she was wrong the second time. So even though she was obviously concerned about the situation, even she was not grasping how serious it was.

 

[KaaBoom]

Just to clarify, that's why my emphasis was heavily on "may." Any empathy for these women is based on speculation of their possible intentions, beyond the immediate evidence. That is not the case with the children. There is hard proof that abuse happened. We may- collectively- disagree over specific evidence in specific photographs/videos/interviews, in the course of trying to identify small irregularities that others might miss. I agree with you, fundamentally. Independent of what attachment-related issues may have contributed, there is no reason to doubt much of what the children explicitly said about being abused. There are confessions and a conviction. Considering Jen and Sarah's actions in the context of possible intentions, by contrast, is based on our experiences and speculation from that. It's a valid form of inquiry. But belief of what the women said about their intentions does not have the same weight of evidence as belief of what the children said about their abuse.

Treading lightly on Mendocino LE, since my personal opinions are based on journalism reports about professional conduct that are no longer available online, and cannot be cited to accord with the rules of the forum. I have reason to doubt, based on past professional conduct, that the Mendocino lieutenant and sheriff/coroner in charge of this investigation have produced a comprehensive report. I am waiting for the input of other, outside/federal LE enforcement agencies, and their collaboration on a final report, to form a conclusive opinion on what happened preceding the crash/accident.

It was the California Highway Patrol that investigated the crash. They have finished their investigation and determined that the crash was not an accident. I'm not sure what more there is to wait for. I seriously doubt that any other LE agency is going to challenge the findings of the CHP.

 

[Zelda1010]

https://www.facebook.com/todd.becker.754/videos/10155669311799436/?t=60

I don't know if this is allowed, due to the way it was posted, or if anyone can see it, but this is a video from Ashleigh Banfield with the sherriff, Thomas Allman, where he states that they are in contact with the children's blood relatives. He then goes on to talk about Jen and Sarah's parents as next of kin. It is very confusing but interesting nonetheless.

I would post the original video but I can't seem to find it.

Listening right now. Anybody else hear this yet? I don't know how to link directly to it in any different way.

The next of kin bit is confusing.

It sounds like they are waiting on bank and phone records yet.

But at least there are those two other articles with the CPS & DeKalb's father calling 911. Slowly but surely we'll know more. Sigh.

Is there a media thread for this case yet?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Children need to run and they love to scream. Unless of course running and screaming are not allowed.

Teachers use the phrase, “ Inside voices”, for good reason.

Kids have energy coursing through their bodies.

Moving into my neighborhood over ten years ago there were a lot of kids, most all grown up now. But in the springtime through autumn the unmistakable joy of kids running around, playing, could always be heard - cookie sales, music, dancing, hoops, bicycling, kickball, running screaming, parents, too, telling them to stay out of the street!

One of my neighbors knows I am a night owl whether I'm working or posting on WS! They keep an eye out for me. We actually all do for each other. So, neighbors have their lookout points. They are often the first to know if something is not right.

I think what might have been very difficult for Devonte's neighbors is that they were possibly really shocked when little Hannah showed up. I know that's never happened to me. My first instinct would have been for it to be ok with her family, too. And I can tell you I'd know exactly what to do now because I am reading this thread--keep that child, dial 911, and only answer the door for LE. Let the professionals sort it out. And maybe they should have called sooner when Devonte started showing up again because he was really asking for their guardianship. It's a terrible and heartbreaking situation to be in because without knowing the moms, if the neighbor interfered would they be causing any heartache for the kids... That would have been a real concern, and yet what was the alternative? And look at what happened, he called, CPS showed up, the family booked it right out of there, and now they are gone, forever. It is way beyond their worst fears, or anyone's worst nightmare.

I really feel for these neighbors. They obviously didn't know J&S. They were put in an untenable and impossible situation. They are not going to get over this tragic sadness anytime soon, but I hope they will find some peace in knowing that they did reach out and try to help.

 

[Electric Sheep]

Children need to run and they love to scream. Unless of course running and screaming are not allowed.

Teachers use the phrase, “ Inside voices”, for good reason.

Kids have energy coursing through their bodies.

These kids were teens though, not small children that would be running around screaming.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

 

[Zelda1010]

Yes, especially when you're rural and away from traffic. Sound carries. The other neighbor did see & talk with them, if I'm remembering right, I think that was more for the opportunity for the moms to get vegetables, fruit. All just my opinion while we (?) wait to hear about funeral services, memorial, something?

Good point. They may have seen that neighbor as more useful or even just more like-minded.

Also...the DeKalb's said the realtor told them a family with kids would be moving in. When did they talk to the Harts' realtor? Their realtor probably reported back to them that the neighbors who share the driveway were inquiring, being nosey even? My realtor shared an interaction she'd had with one of our neighbors as a word of caution that turned out to be useful but unreliable at the same time. Just thinking out loud. I'm also wondering if the DeKalb's were just not outside much themselves, perhaps.

 

[CTPDMom]

I was gathering some old pics of all my mom's grandkids for a Mother's Day gift last night. One pic of my son stood out to me. He was probably 6. Now this kid eats. A LOT. And he's my foodie, he eats nearly every vegetable, all kinds of ethnic foods, etc. but he is active, and was especially so at that age. He's on the beach, with just a bathing suit on, and I'm telling you he looks skeletal. Truly. Only, he was (is) a seriously well nourished kid. That photo made me think a lot about this family, and the sad truth is that we just don't know. And we'll never know the whole truth, the whole story. Could be they were being deprived of food regularly, could be only occasionally, could be never and there's some other explanation. We just won't know.

 

[LonelyChild]

Yes, I'm also in that group and saw that too. And then they're wondering why these people are deleting their Facebook accounts. Geez. Rules are good sometimes.

What group?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[SATA]

These kids were teens though, not small children that would be running around screaming.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

In my experience, teens are loud too.

 

[SATA]

I was gathering some old pics of all my mom's grandkids for a Mother's Day gift last night. One pic of my son stood out to me. He was probably 6. Now this kid eats. A LOT. And he's my foodie, he eats nearly every vegetable, all kinds of ethnic foods, etc. but he is active, and was especially so at that age. He's on the beach, with just a bathing suit on, and I'm telling you he looks skeletal. Truly. Only, he was (is) a seriously well nourished kid. That photo made me think a lot about this family, and the sad truth is that we just don't know. And we'll never know the whole truth, the whole story. Could be they were being deprived of food regularly, could be only occasionally, could be never and there's some other explanation. We just won't know.

I believe what the kids said.
That, and the fact that they all were very thin as well as small.

At first looking at photos of them, I didn´t think they were unnaturally thin.
But seeing the more recent photos, I have to say, they are way, way too thin.

 

[bluesneakers]

I believe what the kids said.
That, and the fact that they all were very thin as well as small.

At first looking at photos of them, I didn´t think they were unnaturally thin.
But seeing the more recent photos, I have to say, they are way, way too thin.

It would be one thing if a few of them were thin and the others more filled out, or if they changed regularly the way kids do (like after a growth spurt or illness, during a sports season), but this was consistently ALL six kids on the thin to too-thin side during at least a four-year period.

 

[SATA]

It would be one thing if a few of them were thin and the others more filled out, or if they changed regularly the way kids do (like after a growth spurt or illness, during a sports season), but this was consistently ALL six kids on the thin to too-thin side during at least a four-year period.

Exactly.

 

[Sleuth99]

It would be one thing if a few of them were thin and the others more filled out, or if they changed regularly the way kids do (like after a growth spurt or illness, during a sports season), but this was consistently ALL six kids on the thin to too-thin side during at least a four-year period.

Right. Shame that people are still trying to explore the starving factor. Let's put it this way so that we all can agree... they all were hungry and their hunger wasn't properly tended to. Can't argue with that... goodness


IMO

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/TylerDumontNews/status/983752888055824384

#UPDATE on three missing #HartFamily kids: @MendoSheriff says nothing found during Monday’s ground and air search. Divers will be deployed once calmer ocean waters return, but it likely won’t be for a few days.

https://twitter.com/gabriellekarol/status/983757342851268608

#HartFamily investigation update: @CHP_HQ will not be providing aerial assistance today searching for the missing Hart children due to the weather along the Mendocino coast @KOINNews

 

[Starkville]

... Abusers would never get anyone to control if they did not show a carrot sometimes...

Wow. This simple sentence contains paragraphs of truth. I’m saving this; it’s genius.

 

[SATA]

Right. Shame that people are still trying to explore the starving factor. Let's put it this way so that we all can agree... they all were hungry and their hunger wasn't properly tended to. Can't argue with that... goodness


IMO

What do you want to talk about, Sleuth99?

illowfight2:

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I think the listing photos initially referred to were from when they sold the house in Minnesota. If you scroll down that page you can view pictures from when they listed it in 2010. They owned that house and there are listing photos from when they sold it.

Yeah, I was mistaken. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[human]

These kids were teens though, not small children that would be running around screaming.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

Hm. They chase, pretend fight, play ball games such as soccer, basketball, , yell for their team, play music so your eardrums shatter, ride bikes wild and crazy, try fancy physical moves such as gymnastics. I have teens by me. They talk and laugh all at loud decibels.