ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[Talulah]

She has thick hair. May be from always wearing an elastic around wrist. Pulled up hair for ride. I often get band marks on my wrists.


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I think the mark on Abigail's wrist does look quite suspicious. I don't know enough about photo editing to comment on the rest of the pictures.

 

[Talulah]

Those kids are frequently wearing layers and layers of clothes. Long sleeves. Hats. Covered up, every inch. Their bodies are deliberately being hidden.

I was looking at the pictures the other day trying to determine if I thought that was the case. I'm not so sure. The recent pics were in winter/spring and there are also pics of the kids in swimming suit pics and so on a so forth.

 

[KaaBoom]

Those kids are frequently wearing layers and layers of clothes. Long sleeves. Hats. Covered up, every inch. Their bodies are deliberately being hidden.

Honestly to me, they look like they were under-dressed. I'm seeing snow in some of the pictures. That means it was below freezing. For that kind of weather, they should have had some kind of real coats, not just layers. Though I understand that some people can tolerate cold with minimum clothes. But it doesn't look to me like they had enough clothes on.

 

[DatelineFan]

I thought cured meats were more specific than lunch meat? Like, not all lunch meat is cured... I think of cured meats as those one can keep unrefrigerated. Like pepperoni and salami and jerky?

Someone may have answered already, but most lunch meats are technically cured. I know because I'm allergic to cured meats. They're usually cured with sodium nitrite. Most cured meats still need to be refrigerated, but obviously jerky does not. Un cured meats go bad very quickly, like within an hour or two. I'm only able to buy uncured.

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[Talulah]

Honestly to me, they look like they were under-dressed. I'm seeing snow in some of the pictures. That means it was below freezing. For that kind of weather, they should have had some kind of real coats, not just layers. Though I understand that some people can tolerate cold with minimum clothes. But it doesn't look to me lake they had enough clothes.

I was wondering about that picture of Abigail with the greenhouse. Jen must have made her open the cover in such a way as to throw snow all over herself to stage the picture. It struck me as a bit odd, not to mention cold. On the other hand, I don't think those flowers wouldn't survive in that greenhouse if it was all that cold.

 

[MomGN2BMD]

I was wondering about that picture of Abigail with the greenhouse. Jen must have made her open the cover in such a way as to throw snow all over herself to stage the picture. It struck me as a bit odd, not to mention cold. On the other hand, I don't think those flowers wouldn't survive in that greenhouse if it was all that cold.

I currently live in the upper Midwest, not all that terribly far from either where J&S grew up or where they all lived until the move west. We are a different breed around here. I'll take the trash out in shorts when it's -20. When it gets above 30 I stop wearing a coat, a hoodie and a beanie, or a long sleeve with layers will suffice. Obviously if out for extended periods of time the gear increases a bit...

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[DatelineFan]

I was a dental assistant for 10 years about 20 years ago and never witnessed that condition.

Makes sense since most kids who are malnourished probably aren't going to the dentist.

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[DatelineFan]

I worked as a pediatric emergency room nurse... I saw it a lot in teens that were brought in for malnutrition from eating disorders. I believe it looks very much like its symmetrical parotid gland swelling from malnutrition/starvation. MOO

This is exactly what it reminds me of! I was hospitalized for anorexia long ago, and many people on the unit had the same swelling.

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[Kimothy]

I hope they search thoroughly for diaries

I am surprised that Jen didn’t have an online diary or blog.

 

[flourish]

I agree. With the Turpins, we had several "outside" people sharing information about the Turpin children and what they went through: doctors talked about them being malnourished and underweight (not just any doctors but their doctors); police reported about seeing a child restrained; the children themselves spoke of being restrained and abused. In this case, however, I feel like the mothers have been tried and convicted of crimes that we're still kind of in the dark about. On this board the mothers, and I use that term loosely because I DO think there was abuse going on, are being spoken of as "torturers" and such yet we don't have much information to back up that claim. Yes, we have the neighbors saying that the children were starving but that's pretty much ALL we have-the word of people who did not know the family well. Yes, there was the child abuse from several years ago but, again, that's all we have. Do I think the women abused the children? Yes, I do. I don't know that it's to the extent that's been alleged on here (although any abuse is bad enough), however. I can't draw conclusions based on staged pictures and possibly fabricated social media posts-not when just about everyone I know (including myself) does the same. I feel VERY uncomfortable accusing the women of restraining the children, sexually abusing them, and starving them to the point of malnutrition without some outside source (the coroner during the autopsy, perhaps, or their pediatrician) corroborating the information.

I have to say, too, that it's kind of uncomfortable with some of the offhand derogatory remarks about their lifestyle and how that lifestyle led to the abuse. Whatever they did to the kids, and we still don't know to what extent the abuse was, it was because there was something inside of them (the mothers).

So much this

Me too. I've seen multiple comments all over the internet, as well as a few here that say something along the lines of "those @#%$&^ should never have been allowed to adopt." It is true that *they* should not have been allowed to adopt the second set of siblings, for sure, but to make such sweeping generalizations indicates some more unsavory assumptions. I personally know a lesbian woman who had two biracial girls that have turned out absolutely beautifully (college educated professionals, one married to a wonderful man and looking to start a family) and then went on to adopt a biracial toddler with RAD and some intellectual disabilities out of foster care. The things they went through with the youngest child were really harrowing, but they got her through high school and she in a profession now that she enjoys. It would be really sad if my friend hadn't been able to adopt just because she is a lesbian. I also don't want people who are already in this situation (alternative and interracial families) to fear leaving their homes or interact with their communities because of what people are saying as a result of this case.

And some of this!

I was looking at the pictures the other day trying to determine if I thought that was the case. I'm not so sure. The recent pics were in winter/spring and there are also pics of the kids in swimming suit pics and so on a so forth.

The appearance of weather can be particularly deceiving in the PNW. IDK if that has anything to do with the perceptions of what time of year in which the photos were taken.


I keep thinking about the story of Sarah calling the little girl selfish for wanting to eat food. That's the biggest food related red flag for me, really, because it corroborates the children's stories. Like, if they actually had dietary issues which meant they would become ill if they ate like gluten or lactose or whatever, but she wasn't scolded for breaking her diet, she was scolded and bruised for not sharing. Presumably, and this is just maybe me being snotty, but I'm guessing Sarah wanted some more of that funnel cake or whatever it was. Ugh.

 

[DatelineFan]

I mean no offence to your efforts, you could be very well correct, but at the same time, this is pretty out there conjecture. If you stare at the sun long enough, you start to see a variety of things. Google Dallas Goldbug.
I have no trouble believing these kids were abused in a variety of ways, but I just think you have to keep in mind, if you over analyse things, you may start to see what you want to see.
"Crying" could very well be allergies, poorly applied makeup (see how clumpy her mascara is?) natural colouring, a cold coming on etc. You know what I mean?

A while back, when Devonte's free hugs made the MSM, a lot of people - we'll call them skeptics, theorised that the free hugs thing was manufactured. They theorised that this family were part of a progressive agenda circuit. They theorised about "Loan Closets" (that's a whole other rabbit hole you don't want to go down).
Basically, the theory was that people such as Devonte and his family, stage these situations for progressive media play, as part of a bigger community of people who stage other situations for political media play. A community that gets children through adoption easily and groom the kids into being their political pawns, through abuse typically and then when they're no longer needed or they've received too much attention, they disappear.

Whilst the theory was highly criticised as "ghoulish" and "crazy" by normal people, it wasn't all that incorrect either, in reality.
However, what I meant above about "Staring into the sun" really was applied in this situation. People would look up photos of other black kids from other events and try and match their faces and imply they were "actors" to a degree and a part of this big conspiracy by the "elites" to bamboozle us plebs in society.

When in reality - a reality that we know 4 years later - a logical reality ; these people weren't wrong, just their theories were over developed from staring into the void so much. They clearly were abusive parents politically grooming their too-easily obtained adopted minority children and they did indeed disappear when too much heat was applied, but it wasn't due to loan closets, elites or crisis actors, it was due to two narc individuals. Just two individuals making ****** choices.

So IMO and I'm saying this so people keep grounded - there doesn't have to be covered up crying evidence or "ligature" marks in pictures that have been edited when the reality of this situation was much more simple - at times they were probably good parents and good people with good intentions who got swept up in a situation politically, socially and emotionally that was too much for them and they sometimes hit their kids and they sometimes punished them by taking food away and the ending was probably due to one parent (Jen) wanting to die and in a fit of emotional idiocy, couldn't bare to be without her kids and wife in the afterlife, so she took everyone with her.

I hate saying that because I disagree with their dumb politics and stupid lifestyle, but logically, stuff is usually simple and not some grand epic.

I have to disagree with you about them ever being good parents. It sounds like reports of abuse started pretty quickly after the first 3 were adopted. I do agree about Sarah crying. And the ring. I remove jewelry at amusement parks. And my eyes are often red because I have allergies.

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[KaaBoom]

I currently live in the upper Midwest, not all that terribly far from either where J&S grew up or where they all lived until the move west. We are a different breed around here. I'll take the trash out in shorts when it's -20. When it gets above 30 I stop wearing a coat, a hoodie and a beanie, or a long sleeve with layers will suffice. Obviously if out for extended periods of time the gear increases a bit...

As I said, I understand that some people can do that in cold weather, but I think that most people dress warmer then that. Plus these kids were not from the upper Midwest. They were originally from Texas.

This is how I would expect most kids to dress in sub-freezing weather. I found this image with a search for "Minnesota snow".

 

[DatelineFan]

I agree. With the Turpins, we had several "outside" people sharing information about the Turpin children and what they went through: doctors talked about them being malnourished and underweight (not just any doctors but their doctors); police reported about seeing a child restrained; the children themselves spoke of being restrained and abused. In this case, however, I feel like the mothers have been tried and convicted of crimes that we're still kind of in the dark about. On this board the mothers, and I use that term loosely because I DO think there was abuse going on, are being spoken of as "torturers" and such yet we don't have much information to back up that claim. Yes, we have the neighbors saying that the children were starving but that's pretty much ALL we have-the word of people who did not know the family well. Yes, there was the child abuse from several years ago but, again, that's all we have. Do I think the women abused the children? Yes, I do. I don't know that it's to the extent that's been alleged on here (although any abuse is bad enough), however. I can't draw conclusions based on staged pictures and possibly fabricated social media posts-not when just about everyone I know (including myself) does the same. I feel VERY uncomfortable accusing the women of restraining the children, sexually abusing them, and starving them to the point of malnutrition without some outside source (the coroner during the autopsy, perhaps, or their pediatrician) corroborating the information.

I have to say, too, that it's kind of uncomfortable with some of the offhand derogatory remarks about their lifestyle and how that lifestyle led to the abuse. Whatever they did to the kids, and we still don't know to what extent the abuse was, it was because there was something inside of them (the mothers).

Cps apparently called 911 about them being possibly starved. It sounds like they had reason to believe it was a concern.

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[MomGN2BMD]

As I said, I understand that some people can do that in cold weather, but I think that most people dress warmer then that. Plus these kids were not from the upper Midwest. They were originally from Texas.

This is how I would expect most kids to dress in sub-freezing weather. I found this image with a search for "Minnesota snow".

Oh definitely, was just playing a bit of friendly alternative perspective, not directly disagreeing at all. And on that note, yes, the kids were originally from Texas, but lived in MN for enough winters to be cold weather acclimated. Doesn't take too long.

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[Emb72]

Financial strains can add a lot of pressure to an already dysfunctional and abusive relationship.

The comment about paying off debt was interesting to me.

Jen and Sarah bought their home in Minnesota back in 2005, paying $95K for it. Peak interest rates in 2005 were 4.25%. Assuming a mortgage of $90K, the P&I payment would have been $545 per month. 2014 property taxes were under $1K per year, so a generous monthly escrow for property taxes from 2006 to when they moved to Oregon would have been $100 per month. Basic housing cost of $700 per month max.

It would be normal to assume that Jen was bringing in income prior to adoption and that the couple was saving money. But we all know what happens when one assumes.

With adoption assistance allowances, the family financial situation should have been decent from 2006 to mid 2012, due to the low housing cost.

But sometime in 2012, Sarah lost her job and this had to put severe financial strain on the family. The MN house was relisted for sale on August 6, 2012, so it seems Sarah lost her job in July or early August. Her LinkedIn resume shows she started working at Kohls in Oregon in October 2012, so the family could have been without her income for 2 to 4 months.

There are no details about the move to Oregon, nor is the time precisely known. The MN house sold in early April 2013. An article in the Statesman Journal has Jen and the kids traveling to Oregon from MN in December 2012 and getting in a rollover accident around 12/26/2012, so it's fair to surmise the whole family took up residence in Oregon sometime between January 2013 and April 2013. They rented a house at 2405 5th Ave., West Linn, OR. This area is an expensive one to live in and their housing costs had to be double, triple or more than what they paid in Alexandria.

The sale listing for the Alexandria property shows different furniture from pictures of the West Linn home. Moving is expensive and they may have bought new furniture instead.

Jen's June 2017 FB post talking about the family getting slammed in the past year did allude to financial difficulties. She said they almost ended up being homeless due to discrimination from the government and insurance companies, which makes no sense, but that is what she posted. Add in Sarah's rear ended, car totaled and the other things Jen posted and there were some big financial things taking place.

If they were trying to pay down debt to buy the new home, this meant they were low on cash. Homes can be bought with small down payments, but mortgage insurance becomes part of the cost. Property taxes on the new place are over $3,700 per year, so a conservative estimate of the monthly housing payment including escrow is over $2,000 per month. Factor in that Markis turned 18 last year, so his adoption subsidy stopped and he would no longer be considered a dependent, since he was not in college. Even though money was tight, Sarah and Jen somehow saw fit to buy new living room furniture for the house in Washington state.

I do have to believe that this couple had enough money to support the family in Minnesota, and they probably got gifts and help from friends in terms of clothing and costumes for the kids. It may have dwindled off a bit when they moved to Oregon, but with them cutting themselves off that last spell in Oregon and then moving to Washington, the financial struggles must have been overwhelming.

The point of all of this is that 1) finances can add more pressure to a situation that is already a pressure cooker and 2) the bits and pieces of information here and there show that this couple did not make good financial decisions when money was tight. And there are two independent reports of money being tight, including one from Jen herself.

ETA: someone brought up the point that the rental in West Linn may have come furnished. This is a good point to consider and might explain why the furniture was different from home to home to home.

One thing also to consider with regards to adoption support. Each state is different. My daughter is adopted through Washington State, if we were to move out of state we would no longer get adoption support. She is quad CP so she will always qualify for SSDI, which we don't recieve if we are getting adoption support. Like I said, each state is different. I'm not sure how Texas works. Also in the state of washington we will get adoption support as long as my daughter is in school which will be until she is 21. I am very curious how Texas works at this point. If they did receive adoption support for all those children it would be a good chunk of money.

 

[keeleydoll]

All of this back and forth about starved or not, there are some very compelling and heartbreaking photographs of these children, several years after their adoptions but with no MSM links. They may eventually hit the media but they can easily be found.


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[11223344]

This is the most recent pics of all the kids

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AND call police. Each and every time.


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Cps apparently called 911 about them being possibly starved. It sounds like they had reason to believe it was a concern.

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No one is disputing the children were being withheld food as they reported for punishment who knows how much and things had obviously escalated. As well as that they were very thin and needed more not less food. The issue I think here is the difference between actively not feeding children, punishing them by witholding a meal, not giving them enough food or the food they need especially coming from the backgrounds they did and the nutrients and vitamins they would have needed as well as medical care to make up for that. There is well documented info on topic. I posted article earlier. As well as issues with immunity, cognitive functioning, growth, etc... If they weren't in school and being isolated I would think they weren't getting the services and added food, nutrition, vitamins, testing, they needed as well as diet. That to me is also neglect. I personally doubt Markis had the swelling from parotid. That is related to bulimia, or severe malnutrition, go look up someone with severe anorexia, or the oldest Turpin. I think more likely the issue is masseter muscle hypertrophy, or could be any number of issues with TMJ, wisdom teeth, jaw. I don't know. Can't speculate. The kids definitely needed more food and you do not withhold food for punishment or give it for reward. That is neglect. Beating children with belts or closed fists is abuse. Whatever they were doing was disturbed. I just question starving vs deficient and using food for punishment. The Turpins were starving their children. That is quite noticeable in their pics. In the size of heads compared to bodies. Tiny arms, ankles. There is a difference between being "anorexic" (starving to death)a %below body weight vs being very thin and nutrient deficient.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I agree. With the Turpins, we had several "outside" people sharing information about the Turpin children and what they went through: doctors talked about them being malnourished and underweight (not just any doctors but their doctors); police reported about seeing a child restrained; the children themselves spoke of being restrained and abused. In this case, however, I feel like the mothers have been tried and convicted of crimes that we're still kind of in the dark about. On this board the mothers, and I use that term loosely because I DO think there was abuse going on, are being spoken of as "torturers" and such yet we don't have much information to back up that claim. Yes, we have the neighbors saying that the children were starving but that's pretty much ALL we have-the word of people who did not know the family well. Yes, there was the child abuse from several years ago but, again, that's all we have. Do I think the women abused the children? Yes, I do. I don't know that it's to the extent that's been alleged on here (although any abuse is bad enough), however. I can't draw conclusions based on staged pictures and possibly fabricated social media posts-not when just about everyone I know (including myself) does the same. I feel VERY uncomfortable accusing the women of restraining the children, sexually abusing them, and starving them to the point of malnutrition without some outside source (the coroner during the autopsy, perhaps, or their pediatrician) corroborating the information.

I have to say, too, that it's kind of uncomfortable with some of the offhand derogatory remarks about their lifestyle and how that lifestyle led to the abuse. Whatever they did to the kids, and we still don't know to what extent the abuse was, it was because there was something inside of them (the mothers).

I so agree. Im sick of the nit picking. I tell myself to roll and scroll.

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[DatelineFan]

No one is disputing the children were being withheld food as they reported for punishment who knows how much and things had obviously escalated. As well as that they were very thin and needed more not less food. The issue I think here is the difference between actively not feeding children, punishing them by witholding a meal, not giving them enough food or the food they need especially coming from the backgrounds they did and the nutrients and vitamins they would have needed as well as medical care to make up for that. There is well documented info on topic. I posted article earlier. As well as issues with immunity, cognitive functioning, growth, etc... If they weren't in school and being isolated I would think they weren't getting the services and added food, nutrition, vitamins, testing, they needed as well as diet. That to me is also neglect. I personally doubt Markis had the swelling from parotid. That is related to bulimia, or severe malnutrition, go look up someone with severe anorexia, or the oldest Turpin. I think more likely the issue is masseter muscle hypertrophy, or could be any number of issues with TMJ, wisdom teeth, jaw. I don't know. Can't speculate. The kids definitely needed more food and you do not withhold food for punishment or give it for reward. That is neglect. Beating children with belts or closed fists is abuse. Whatever they were doing was disturbed. I just question starving vs deficient and using food for punishment. The Turpins were starving their children. That is quite noticeable in their pics. In the size of heads compared to bodies. Tiny arms, ankles. There is a difference between being "anorexic" (starving to death)a %below body weight vs being very thin and nutrient deficient.

Why does it matter? What they did is wrong. They were kids who depended on their parents to provide for them. Why does starvation vs. withholding food matter? I don't think it does. They are both wrong, and quite frankly, a way of torturing these kids. As far as I know, no one in this thread is a medical doctor who has evaluated these kids, so no one can say with certainty. But we all know that what was happening was wrong.

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[Whiteorchids]

I think the mark on Abigail's wrist does look quite suspicious. I don't know enough about photo editing to comment on the rest of the pictures.

It looks like a wrist bruise it has been reported in e media that Sarah bruised one of the girls wrist witnessed by an anonymous friend. I believe yanking them by their little boney wrist was a common occurrence