CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[gitana1]

The first article I read on this mentioned the mothers having their seat belts on and that none of the children had their seat belts on. This immediately struck me as so off and it is just always there in the back of mind when reading about this. We don't leave our driveway or a parking lot etc without making sure every kid has their seat belt on. Now I don't need to even ask that of my teens. It's just automatic at that age.

So why would they all have theirs off? How would you even tell all your kids to unbuckle or why? I can't even imagine a scenario in the car in which I would suggest my kids all take off their seat belts. If they tried subtly or otherwise the kids HAD to have found that very odd. It would be like telling your kids to pick up their dinner plates off the table and set them on the floor to finish their meal.

I'd really prefer to think those children had absolutely no idea what was coming before being driven off a cliff. But even if my kids were asleep on a trip they'd have their seat belts on. Could one of the women have unbuckled them all while they slept in the middle of the night or something? (That would not be easy to do) And if so why? To help ensure death in a car accident? Then why keep theirs on?

My fear is they were trying to get out before she plunged over the side.

 

[continentseven]

In that quote it says Devonte asked the Dekalbs for six packs of tortillas, a case of peanut butter, cured meats, and apples.

That sounds like a child trying to gather supplies to feed six children a fairly basic meal each. And he wanted apples...so I don't think this has to do with being fed nothing but organic fruit and veg and being denied candy at home.

Wow, reading your response sparked a thought in me--which perhaps someone else upthread has mentioned--but this also sounds to me like a kid who is collecting food in preparation for running away. All of those items mentioned--tortillas, peanut butter, cured meats, apples--those all travel very well and hold up for some time.

 

[Lilibet]

I wonder what the neighbors did when the kids came to their houses? When Hannah came and pleaded to not be sent back, what did they do? I would have called the police right then and there.

sounds like these kids tried to reach for help for a long time but didn't get any.

im also wondering if the two women had a cult like mentality. They didn't seem to like authority, and seemed paranoid and scared of the police and cops.

could it be they knew "the man" was out to get them and grew paranoid and decided to end it all?

BBM

The neighbors were in a tough spot. They couldn’t hold Hannah there until the police arrived without being guilty of custodial interference. So once the child was home, LE would be given some story like “night terrors.” I think it must have been really creepy when the whole family descended on the neighbors in the middle of the night retrieve the child. Imagine being swarmed by 7 people! And then the apology letter en masse the next day. Gaslighting. I’m sure this couple has a lot of regrets, and wish they’d consulted with LE the next day, but they’d never encountered anything this crazy before, I’m sure. And when they did call CPS the family ends up dead. It could have been the neighbors who ended up dead just as easily. I’ve had scary neighbors and you really weigh what you do very carefully.

 

[gitana1]

This echos many of my thoughts. The grocery store scene seemed made up to me, or at the very least, blown way out of proportion. It was too *convenient* a story to share, in light of their activism. And yes, it doesn't make sense to me that a child with the level of delays Devonte had at 4 would be that advanced a few years later, though I suppose his delays could have been addressed with therapy and other supports. Still, that is an awfully lot for a child to overcome to end up as exceptional as he is described.

A lot of what the DeKalb's describe could be indicative of either previously traumatized *or* currently abused children. Or both. I do believe the women were abusive, but I wonder how they would have coped with fewer children who were more typical in their development, with less of a trauma history. I'm also curious how much help they sought out for their children and themselves. I hope people that matter are following this case to determine if these were simply a pair of narcissistic liars who turned out to be family annihilators when their props refused to behave, or if there is anything else that can be learned from this.

What is the grocery store scene? I never read about it.

California crash that killed Hart family believed by authorities to be intentional



How is this possible?
I thought both moms were in their seatbelts.
I hate it when they change the story on us, after accepting it as fact.

They plummeted to their seats in a several ton vehicle. How is it not possible? Couldn't they be mangled beyond recognition? Faces smashed?

 

[katydid23]

BBM

The neighbors were in a tough spot. They couldn’t hold Hannah there until the police arrived without being guilty of custodial interference. So once the child was home, LE would be given some story like “night terrors.” I think it must have been really creepy when the whole family descended on the neighbors in the middle of the night retrieve the child. Imagine being swarmed by 7 people! And then the apology letter en masse the next day. Gaslighting. I’m sure this couple has a lot of regrets, and wish they’d consulted with LE the next day, but they’d never encountered anything this crazy before, I’m sure. And when they did call CPS the family ends up dead. It could have been the neighbors who ended up dead just as easily. I’ve had scary neighbors and you really weigh what you do very carefully.

When you mentioned 'scary neighbors' --- I was reminded that you also lived in the Emerald Triangle for awhile. I had some pretty scary neighbors up there. Wonderful lovely ones, for the most part. But a few very scary dangerous ones too, if they thought you were nosy or invasive...

 

[everybodhi]

What is the grocery store scene? I never read about it.

They plummeted to their seats in a several ton vehicle. How is it not possible? Couldn't they be mangled beyond recognition? Faces smashed?

Then DNA will expose the driver, eventually.
Their families deserve to know.
I wonder how the birth parents are taking all this.
I don’t know their stories but they are human beings who thought their kids were safe, only to find they are all dead. (Most likely)

 

[margarita25]

California crash that killed Hart family may have been intentional, authorities say

"At this time, three children are still missing and could be in the ocean," a California Highway Patrol officer said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...y-believed-authorities-be-intentional-n861876
bbm

( unbelievable :shakehead:

No words )

 

[gitana1]

Random thoughts....
IMO

#1 There looks to be a road or driveway across from cliff area. It would be a perfect place to see that traffic is clear and punch it to 90 mph.

#2 the Yukon could have child lock-outs on and windows locked so they couldn't escape.

#3 since they weren't found until afternoon, the ocean probably went through at least 1 high tide.

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I saw that roadway and wondered the same thing.

Coming in late on the thread...what a horrible tragedy.
With regard to the three missing children, I hope the family home or any of their getaway spots have been searched thoroughly. It may be these two parents killed these missing children, or they are tied up somewhere for punishment?

Editing to add I am so sick of hearing about CPS involved and children end up dead. The CPS procedures need to be overhauled. Enough already!

I don't know. I mean what procedures would you change? It's always a balance between government intrusion and risking kids' well being. I don't think we could keep kids fully safe regardless of the procedures unless they were draconian.

 

[gitana1]

Then DNA will expose the driver, eventually.
Their families deserve to know.
I wonder how the birth parents are taking all this.
I don’t know their stories but they are human beings who thought their kids were safe, only to find they are all dead. (Most likely)

Well of course the families deserve to know. I'm confused though. What does that have to do with finding it hard to believe their bodies could be smashed beyond easy recognition?

 

[Lilibet]

Any friends of these two women who have trouble believing they were anything other than wonderful should read about DeeDee Blancharde and her daughter Gypsy. Everyone thought DeeDee was such a great mother to her very ill (not) daughter. She even fooled doctors and Habitat for Humanity...and the list goes on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Dee_Dee_Blanchard

 

[travelbug]

This is the interior of a 2003 GMC Yukon. There are doors next to the front seat and second row seats. The only exit from the third row seats would be through the rear hatch or by climbing over the second row end seats. If the 3 missing children, and possibly the 2 dogs, were in the 3rd row seats and/or cargo area it is possible that they wouldn't be thrown out of the vehicle in the same manner as those sitting adjacent to doors. It is possible that they were trapped in the back during the crash. They were so small that once the car landed, roof down in the surf, their bodies may have been carried out by the ocean tides. I really hope they are alive, but the odds aren't in their favor.

 

[margarita25]

California crash that killed Hart family may have been intentional, authorities say

"At this time, three children are still missing and could be in the ocean," a California Highway Patrol officer said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...y-believed-authorities-be-intentional-n861876
bbm

Additionally from your link above, Jax:

""Pure acceleration all the way," he said."

**********
Image from above link below / sorry for repost / going back into lurkdom to catch up:

The pullout where the SUV of Jennifer and Sarah Hart was recovered off the Pacific Coast Highway near Westport, California.
Alameda County Sheriff's Office /via AP

(Really spectacular scenery, hope that doesn't sound insensitive, I don't mean for it to!)

 

[Lilibet]

When you mentioned 'scary neighbors' --- I was reminded that you also lived in the Emerald Triangle for awhile. I had some pretty scary neighbors up there. Wonderful lovely ones, for the most part. But a few very scary dangerous ones too, if they thought you were nosy or invasive...

I didn’t realize you had lived in the Emerald Triangle, katy. So you know what it’s like. We were there 15 years, most of which were good, but the last 5 or so got weird. When you fear for your safety you tread very carefully...and then sell out and move to Oregon!

 

[CHICANA]

I was wondering if that was why the kids were not buckled in. Maybe they pulled over so the kids could stretch their legs, and maybe they switched up the drivers?

Then for some unknown tragic reason, the 'fresh' driver went off the cliff instead of back to the highway.

It is just really hard to believe it was accidental. When you are on that highway, it is so OBVIOUS where the ocean is, at all times.

When you pull over at a LOOKOUT, it is freakin clear where the huge ocean is. No way the driver could accidentally turn the wrong way, in my opinion.

I think that at least one of the moms was highly aware of the coming troubles with CPS, and what it might reveal soon, to their friends and family, etc. I think it was an act of urgent desperation, in the end.

Is it possible they didn't see the edge of the cliff because it was dark?

 

[Lilibet]

I saw that roadway and wondered the same thing.



I don't know. I mean what procedures would you change? It's always a balance between government intrusion and risking kids' well being. I don't think we could keep kids fully safe regardless of the procedures unless they were draconian.

Not to mention that these families move when CPS is onto them. That’s usually why the kids end up dead. But I’m not denying there are balls dropped. It’s an imperfect system, but draconian isn’t good either. Sigh.

 

[Lilibet]

Is it possible they didn't see the edge of the cliff because it was dark?

It would be comforting to think that. But if it’s dark and you’re in a large turnout on the edge of the ocean you will have your headlights on so know where you are. And you don’t speed up and drive toward the cliff away from the road. They basically went out of their way to drive off the edge of the cliff.

 

[Beth11311]

Now that we know the car came to a complete stop before they went over the cliff, we can put to rest the idea that they were traveling the Pacific Coast Highway at 90mph and made a sharp turn onto the turnoff at 90mph, leaving no tracks.

California crash that killed Hart family believed by authorities to be intentional



This article also mentions the speedometer.

Yes - I think it makes a lot more sense that it got stuck or as he also said was possibly accidentally manipulated. Going from a complete stop to 90 on what looks to be a pretty short stretch on the turnout always bothered me. I think the trajectory etc points to a rate of speed lower than 90.


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[rsd1200]

This is only a guess, but I'd imagine it's like how a lot of men who in secret are abusive but to the world at large they present themselves as husband of the year, are very charming, have lots of friends. Do a lot of grand gestures of ~love~ and are very demonstrative, but it's all an act. Makes it hard for their abused partners to get any traction in getting people to believe them. It's extremely manipulative and cunning.

This. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Beth11311]

I truly hope that the remaining three kiddos and two doggies managed to escape somehow, that they will be found alive. While I know this is unlikely, I can’t help but hope. The ocean in this part of California is unforgiving and dangerous - rip tides/very strong currents, sleeper waves. Growing up there we never went swimming in the ocean, the closest we got was wading in the waves (the ocean is also bone-chillingly cold in my opinion - but that’s off-track). I think it’s possible if they were somehow washed out with the tide and caught in a rip current that it may be very hard to find them, but then again bodies normally need to be significantly offshore to not be brought in with the waves, right? Think about the horrible stories of the migrants/refugees washing up on the shores - their boats capsized relatively far out and still they were brought in. Obviously the ocean in the area plays a significant part. Do we have anyone with more experience regarding how likely it would be that not even one but three bodies and two dogs would be washed away without a trace (that we know of) in this area?


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[rsd1200]

Anyone who wants to take a Google drive for clarity...

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.703...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sC_JwKLSfbkOSvN7t-mj0ag!2e0

Coming in a bit behind, but, if they were found at the front, base of the cliff, it almost looks as if they've backed the car into that little road accross from the pull-off and shot straight ahead. I'm leaning toward OP said, that there was an arguement, and this was an impulsive, "in the heat of the moment", act.