CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[flourish]

Wow, now, if true, that is seriously damning...in the court documents someone linked to --a scribd link, sorry can't find atm--Sarah admitted to losing patience and spanking the girl over the edge of the bathtub, causing the bruising. But this one looks like they totally made up a lie that didn't admit to any wrongdoing...hmmm

KATU News article claiming they obtained new court documents that say "one of the adopted daughters of Sarah and Jennifer Hart told authorities her mother hit her using a belt back in 2008, while the family was living in Minnesota. When confronted, Sarah and Jennifer told authorities the girl fell down the stairs."

http://katu.com/news/local/hart-par...own-stairs-minnesota-sarah-hart-jennifer-hart

 

[bluesneakers]

I have no idea, but there are these two recorded instances of him hugging strangers (police officer and a singer on stage).

Kids who are very fast to bond with strangers do tend to have problems at home, don´t they?
Were those trips to the neighbours asking for food in the same category? Him trying to bond with them.

Two hugs (from public figures, not strangers) aren't the same as bonding, but I'm curious about your theory. Do you have a link?

 

[Poppyflower]

Drove Highway 1 four years ago when visiting the US.
We were never nervous - but I am from Iceland, and husband from Norway, so I guess we are already hardened.

It seemed very safe and easy to drive there.

Did you drive it from Oregon to LA?

 

[Sleuth99]

What do you mean?

I think my phone is acting up or something. I read about paranoid killers running from threats but wanted find out how that connects to the covert abuse


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[Talulah]

Two hugs (from public figures, not strangers) aren't the same as bonding, but I'm curious about your theory. Do you have a link?

I'm not SATA but this might help: http://www.aacap.org/App_Themes/AACAP/docs/facts_for_families/stephanie/85_Attachment_Disorders.pdf

 

[LonelyChild]

I feel like Sarah and Jens friends are as nuts as they were. They chose to stand by and not question anything and now everything is about protecting the Hart family name and Sarah and Jen. Have you heard them mourn these kids? Have they said anything minus about Devonte? Not that I've seen they haven't I haven't heard one of them say "Jeremiah was so smart and full of life, he lit up the room" or "Markis was so very creative and shy" you don't hear anything like that from the friends. All they're focused on is what great parents their friends were. I'm sorry I hate to burst the friends bubble but as a parent everyone gets frustrated from time to time but never have I statved my child, never have I beat my child to the point he went to school crying in pain, never have I abused my child to the point they ran to a neighbor for help, never has my child had to ask a neighbor for food and most certainly never have I even considered driving off a cliff with my child. If that's the friends definition of a great parent someone who does all those things I hate to see what they think a bad parent is. [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35][emoji35]

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[flourish]

I've worked with and cared for an adopted child who had RAD and suffered from disordered eating. She could snow anyone--we would have long discussions with outside people (schools, etc.) about it prior, but she'd end up with extra candy or snacks or whatever all the time...she knew how and what to say to get people to give her things or to look the other way if she stole (she's so cute, though!)...no judgement or blame on her--she was in "survival" mode most of the time just from instinct and from habit, but yeah, I keep thinking about her...the standard instruction was, "if she tells you the sky is blue, you go outside and look up to make sure," because she was so incredibly manipulative. That sounds awful--I love her, don't get me wrong, poor thing didn't have a good start and it shows years later. It was exhausting to work with, and I got to go home at the end of the day!

I don't think some of these families realize what they're signing on for, even educated, knowledgeable parents can find themselves in over their heads.
They don't typically murder their families, though, no.

I have no idea, but there are these two recorded instances of him hugging strangers (police officer and a singer on stage).

Kids who are very fast to bond with strangers do tend to have problems at home, don´t they?
Were those trips to the neighbours asking for food in the same category? Him trying to bond with them.

 

[human]

I have wondered how they afford this as well. If you google DH name and Free Hugs several photos pop up that show him collecting donations for charity on his 11th, 13th, 14th, and 15th birthdays. Who knows what was actually done with the money. I would hope S and J would donate it. I have noticed several photos have the watermark Hart Visions Photography. Even if she worked as a professional photographer and they received benefits for adoption, I don’t see how a family of that size could live and travel primarily on an assistant manager’s salary. Our family is about the same size and we are also one income family. Just food, clothing, mortgage, gas, and vehicles eat up the majority of the income. It definitely makes me wonder if there was some type of outside income like a trust fund or inheritance that supplemented the family income.

My husband always says when people are living above their means, scratch an inch and you will find a trust fund.

 

[SATA]

Two hugs (from public figures, not strangers) aren't the same as bonding, but I'm curious about your theory. Do you have a link?

No, no link, just my own observation.

Have you seen the video of him hugging the singer?
It is a loooooooooooooong hug.
The way he hugged the police officer seems off to me.
Singer and police officer are strangers to him, not close family or friends.

 

[flourish]

Off topic, but I'm still so glad the US finally got with it and people can marry those they love I'll be honest--I was hesitant to get married while gay marriage was illegal in the US, because I didn't want to be part of an exclusionary system. Anyway, congratulations to you and yours (years later, but still)

Yes, this. My wife and I went to Canada to get married in 2012 because same sex marriage wasn't yet legal in our state and we wanted to get married in a place where it was recognized country-wide.

 

[Hatfield]

Accidents do happen, though...
Not California, but "Man texts, "I need to quit texting," before driving off cliff," at http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/19176838/man-who-drove-off-cliff-while-texting-warns-others

"Malibu Times is reporting that on Monday a 2013 Tesla Model S drove over the edge of a canyon, plunged 500 feet below and caught fire. The blaze was intense:

The accident occurred just after 11 a.m. on Monday, June 21, when a 2013 Tesla registered to a 53-year-old male from Calabasas went over the edge of the canyon, falling an estimated 500 feet."

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-plunges-cliff-catches-fire-fatality-reported/

"A 17-year-old was killed early Thursday morning after the car he was driving reportedly went off the road and fell down a cliff on Maui, according to Maui Fire Department officials. "

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...off-cliff-on-maui-details-at-hawaiinewsnowcom

"
Car Plunges Off 200-Foot Sea Cliff On Hawaii’s Hana Highway
The fall killed one woman and critically injured another."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/car-crash-hawaii-hana-highway_us_574ca242e4b055bb11728af6

I don't know...I mean, this sure is looking intentional, though...but people do make mistakes...

That particular spot where they went off the cliff is really dangerous. I was really surprised to see no guardrails and it really is dangerous.

The one main thing that I struggle with about it being an accident is the parking area was so large. So in order for them to mistakingly drive right over the side they would have had to been driving in the parking lot area for 70 feet which is what was stated in one article I think.

But you are right that accidents can and do happen. If it wasnt for CPS trying to contact them and them taking off before talking with CPS I would probably be leaning towards the accident theory. The coinicidence of CPS is what has me leaning towards intentional act.

 

[Talulah]

Off topic, but I'm still so glad the US finally got with it and people can marry those they love I'll be honest--I was hesitant to get married while gay marriage was illegal in the US, because I didn't want to be part of an exclusionary system. Anyway, congratulations to you and yours (years later, but still)

Thanks! I'm still happy about it, lol. It was pretty funny to just be sitting at work one day when our marriage was suddenly valid in the states too.

 

[flourish]

Oh, I don't know that it did? The poster posted some articles about some of the usual characteristics of annihilation murderers, but I don't know that it was intended as a strict comparison to this situation, but was just some information about people who kill their entire families?

I think my phone is acting up or something. I read about paranoid killers running from threats but wanted find out how that connects to the covert abuse


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[human]

As an individual who was adopted from the foster care system, I know my parents received what is called a subsidized adoption. They received a monthly amount until as long as I qualified as a dependent and I also remained eligible for Medicaid despite the income level of my parents. The last subsidy check my parents got was over 12 years ago and was $450/month at that time. I can only assume those monthly amounts have increased. Times 6 kids that would add a minimum of $30,000 extra income annually on top of Sarah's management position. Still not astronomical by any means, but makes it more feasible in my mind. I mean they purchased a home for $375,000 last year, the lending company would have required they met an income standard that would feasibly allow them to pay their mortgage.

Here is a link that breaks down Texas adoption assistance, from here it appears likely the 6 would have qualified for the higher ceiling @ $545/month.

www.dfps.state.tx.us/Adoption_and_Foster_Care/About_Adoption/subsidy.asp#payment

Is that money taxable income? And with that many people, their tax liability would be super low. And would they get earned income credit?

 

[flourish]

Or a huge pile of debt?

My husband always says when people are living above their means, scratch an inch and you will find a trust fund.

 

[Electric Sheep]

My husband always says when people are living above their means, scratch an inch and you will find a trust fund.

Or maxed out credit cards.

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[keeleydoll]

This vehicle seats 8.

And re “flying” off the cliff, I really don’t think that driving 70’ in a vehicle this heavy would propel it very far at all.

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Replying to myself but I drive a 2005 Tahoe (same as 2003 Tahoe or Yukon) that has been regularly serviced and kept in excellent condition and it doesn’t have a ton of “get up and go”... I may grab a rangefinder and see how fast I can get in 70’ in a safe place.

I did pile up a 3 ton jack and several cases of water in the back and the vehicle did not “ding” or show the dash indicator light about no seatbelt like it does when my husband sits in the front and won’t buckle up.


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[human]

KATU News article claiming they obtained new court documents that say "one of the adopted daughters of Sarah and Jennifer Hart told authorities her mother hit her using a belt back in 2008, while the family was living in Minnesota. When confronted, Sarah and Jennifer told authorities the girl fell down the stairs."

http://katu.com/news/local/hart-par...own-stairs-minnesota-sarah-hart-jennifer-hart

The old ,” Fell down the stairs, “ excuse

 

[MomGN2BMD]

Devonte never approached anyone before because of his eating disorder?

And it was neither addressed with medical or psychological intervention? Seems that would have come to light by now if any of their defenders were aware of it.

ETA I know all about HIPAA and medical records being private, but at least in my circle of parent friends things like appointments and diagnoses and requests for advice on such matters are discussed frequently.

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I am assuming that the "eating disorder" referred to (whether it's existence is factual for any of these kids or not is unknown to speculators) is the food hoarding behavior associated with reactive attachment disorder. These behaviors can persist for years, with or without treatment/intervention. They are based on how the brain gets wired to be in survival mode due to neglect in early development. I was adopted at the age of 2, and was a victim of neglect prior during my first two years. When I came to live with my parents, who ultimately adopted me, they learned quickly they had to only offer me appropriate portions as I would binge and hide food. I was diagnosed with RAD later in childhood, my parents were literally about the best parents a person could hope for, however some of those early neuronal wiring patterns persisted throughout my entire childhood and although I am a well-adjusted adult and have no ongoing mental health issues or anything, I still have these weird neuroses or reactions in certain situations or about certain things that have clearly persisted despite having a good healthy environment after the age of 2. Not saying that was the case here, just offering a point of view on reactive attachment disorder. If anyone is more curious about the many other symptoms and nuances of RAD I will leave two links, one for a peer-reviewed journal article and one from an organization that is dedicated to attachment and child development issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566997/

http://instituteforattachment.ong/7-reasons-kids-with-reactive-attachment-disorder-hoard-food/

 

[Talulah]

I have to concur on the income situation. They must have had substantial income from the children. You can do a lot with thrift stores and sales, but no way can you buy a $375,000 house on $53,000 a year.