CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[gcharlie]

Found a picture of the vehicle where it ended up. The problem though is we still dont really know the impact area because if it was high tide at time it went over the cliff then it could have landed further away from cliff and floated back to near the cliff by the waves.

I seriously doubt this vehicle would float or even get moved by strong currents.

2003 GMC Yukon/Curb weight 4,875 to 5,609 lbs

Front door is open, and most likely all windows have been blown out by the crash, meaning water will pour through it, not against it to push it.

 

[flourish]

I have to concur on the income situation. They must have had substantial income from the children. You can do a lot with thrift stores and sales, but no way can you buy a $375,000 house on $53,000 a year.

True that. Shoes aren't houses!

 

[MomGN2BMD]

Is that money taxable income? And with that many people, their tax liability would be super low. And would they get earned income credit?

No, it is tax free, and not used for EIC calculations, so if they otherwise qualified for EIC they could have recieved that as well.

 

[lucy_lou]

It apppears that there is 45.7 cubic feet of space in a 2003 Yukon. https://www.edmunds.com/gmc/yukon-xl/2003/features-specs/

For a family of 8, how much storage would that be? For camping equipment, luggage, dogs, etc? It seems like it would be a tight fit for longer than a short trip. But maybe I pack too much.

 

[Gooddeeds]

JMO
If they received government money for the kids then that could explain why so many kids and could explain how they funded some of their lifestyle. I know of someone who gets assistance for adopted children and I was surprised how much per month it was.

Somewhere it was mentioned that in their adoption/foster care case they received 10-12K monthly. Don’t recall the source, not sure of its accuracy and im trying to find it.

They could not afford the house on a single income family members wages. The store isn’t hefty in payouts. Unless it was a corporate office senior level position located at the company’s main headquarters all other is not too far from minimum wage.

Just the fixed expenses of monthly mortgage, with food, utilities, clothing, etc for 8 people is costly. Not including routine medical or emergency care.

Homeschool is by far comparatively less expensive than conventional but there is still ongoing associated cost.

 

[human]

I am assuming that the "eating disorder" referred to (whether it's existence is factual for any of these kids or not is unknown to speculators) is the food hoarding behavior associated with reactive attachment disorder. These behaviors can persist for years, with or without treatment/intervention. They are based on how the brain gets wired to be in survival mode due to neglect in early development. I was adopted at the age of 2, and was a victim of neglect prior during my first two years. When I came to live with my parents, who ultimately adopted me, they learned quickly they had to only offer me appropriate portions as I would binge and hide food. I was diagnosed with RAD later in childhood, my parents were literally about the best parents a person could hope for, however some of those early neuronal wiring patterns persisted throughout my entire childhood and although I am a well-adjusted adult and have no ongoing mental health issues or anything, I still have these weird neuroses or reactions in certain situations or about certain things that have clearly persisted despite having a good healthy environment after the age of 2. Not saying that was the case here, just offering a point of view on reactive attachment disorder. If anyone is more curious about the many other symptoms and nuances of RAD I will leave two links, one for a peer-reviewed journal article and one from an organization that is dedicated to attachment and child development issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566997/

http://instituteforattachment.ong/7-reasons-kids-with-reactive-attachment-disorder-hoard-food/

I was curious if his asking for food had ever happened anywhere else.

He did not ask these people until a couple months into living there? Or was it longer they lived there.

It seems like the Harts had the food issue excuse handy.

I wonder more if he wasn’t planning on running away.

But if someone says that it was a common behavior on his part, then I will have to change my viewpoint

 

[Gooddeeds]

POSSIBLE FAMILY SPOTTING

http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...n-fort-bragg-calif-before-crash/283-533859540

 

[gcharlie]

KATU News article claiming they obtained new court documents that say "one of the adopted daughters of Sarah and Jennifer Hart told authorities her mother hit her using a belt back in 2008, while the family was living in Minnesota. When confronted, Sarah and Jennifer told authorities the girl fell down the stairs."

http://katu.com/news/local/hart-par...own-stairs-minnesota-sarah-hart-jennifer-hart

This is bad.

This comes from court documents. These reported incidents are piling up quickly. Who knows how many more will come to light?

Date of the report was September 2008. Devonte and his siblings had not been adopted yet.

Abigail and Hannah were probably 4 and 6 years old at the time and had been with Jen and Sarah since 2006- less than 2 years.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Agreed. I'm hippie as all get-out, and I frequent festivals too, but I have next to no tolerance for this kind of staged and prolonged audience interaction. It's almost always pre-planned if an audience member gets onstage – not "organic" at all – which means it wasn't likely Devonte's idea, but that of Xavier (the performer) and at least one of the mothers. And the mom in me screams "inappropriate" at such prolonged huggy-cuddliness between a child and anyone who isn't very close family, never mind a half-naked performer. It's coercive and dehumanizing to ask that type of public display from a child, whether he has attachment issues or not.

I saw the news about the car possibly going 90mph at the time of the crash, and my heart sank. I can't fathom anyone driving that fast with their children in a car, on a turnout from a winding coastal road – unless they are either abruptly physically disabled, or furious to the point of recklessness, or terrified and fleeing. None of those possibilities spells 'accident' to me. Something chaotic was happening in those last moments before they went off the cliff.

I do wonder what is the felony that LE believes was committed, by whom, and where it fits into the timeline.

Since the time of crash is still unknown (or not yet public) I also wonder if twilight or night fog and/or poor night vision could have played a part. I've nearly driven off country roads and into fields or gullies a couple of times in night fog – while not going anywhere near 90 mph. Such near misses have left me very reluctant to drive at night, especially on roads I don't know. Driving in the mountains or along oceanside cliffs in poor visibility conditions is just about my worst nightmare.

A [cbs.com) article from March 28. 2018...

reported that the Hwy Patrol stated that the weather was clear...
And that drugs nor alcohol were factors in the crash...

 

[human]

I seriously doubt this vehicle would float or even get moved by strong currents.

2003 GMC Yukon/Curb weight 4,875 to 5,609 lbs

Front door is open, and most likely all windows have been blown out by the crash, meaning water will pour through it, not against it to push it.

View attachment 132383

I agree. I live where boats get wrecked now and again and they get caught on the rocks and do not move. It takes a long time to get the insurance to handle all the paperwork for the boat rescue people come to take them away. These are sailboats. They always get gouged out hulls so water comes through.

They never move anywhere with the huge wave action of the ocean

 

[lynie]

I have to concur on the income situation. They must have had substantial income from the children. You can do a lot with thrift stores and sales, but no way can you buy a $375,000 house on $53,000 a year.

Depends on if they had equity from their last home. West Linn is a fairly affluent area, even a small or older home would sell for $300,000 easily......

 

[RickshawFan]

It seems very unlikely that the GPS made them drive into the water. That seems to happen when there is a hidden pond or lake.

This road was following right alongside the huge ocean, for many miles. The driver would be totally aware that the massive body of water was just right there. So I don't see how a GPS could convince the driver to make a sharp right, off the highway, across 75 feet of gravel, and over a cliff to the thundering ocean floor.

Someone can drive it, GPS on board, and find out?

 

[keeleydoll]

It apppears that there is 45.7 cubic feet of space in a 2003 Yukon. https://www.edmunds.com/gmc/yukon-xl/2003/features-specs/

For a family of 8, how much storage would that be? For camping equipment, luggage, dogs, etc? It seems like it would be a tight fit for longer than a short trip. But maybe I pack too much.

There is practically no storage space if all of the seats are used. My family is myself, my husband and our kids 17, 14, 12, 6 and 3. We travel locally in the Tahoe with one seat in the second row down (7 seats) if we are on vacation we take two vehicles or if it’s a short trip put a cargo shell on top.

First pic back end space (including hats and jackets, etc. just from winter weather and trash bags because they’re always handy[emoji39])

Our 6’2” son can fit in the 2nd row where the waters are and ~5’ teen/preteen daughters in the rear row next to the booster seat. We cannot fit our dogs in with the kids at all but we have large labs.

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[enelram]

Depends on if they had equity from their last home. West Linn is a fairly affluent area, even a small or older home would sell for $300,000 easily......

It's been established upthread that they rented in West Linn.

 

[Gooddeeds]

This is bad.

This comes from court documents. These reported incidents are piling up quickly. Who knows how many more will come to light?

Date of the report was September 2008. Devonte and his siblings had not been adopted yet.

Abigail and Hannah were probably 4 and 6 years old at the time and had been with Jen and Sarah since 2006- less than 2 years.

I think they were running from being found out for awhile. After the hugs headlines they were probably worried about being exposed. That explains the all out constant dramatic effort to capitalize on for looking wholesome. Seriously it is above and beyond staged.

If you look at the Tribe & friends activity you can gain more perspective on them saying the family was stellar. It is very cultish IMO. I’m curious if there are financial contributions expected ‘for the good of the group’? ‘Purple Koolaid’

Since no family of either have come forward I wonder if the ‘friends’ will appeal to settling the estate if there is any.

 

[flourish]

Someone can drive it, GPS on board, and find out?

I put into Google maps directions from Fort Bragg to Juan Creek bridge, which is right near where the accident happened and my directions just have me staying on the road. I do wonder if parked at the lookout and putting in a destination what the directions are, if any, to get out of the lookout area? I know I was leaving my stupid local Walmart the other day and put in for directions to a local bagel place and getting me out of Walmart if I'd followed the directions only I'd have ended up driving straight through a Starbucks. Shrug. Curious.

 

[bluesneakers]

No, no link, just my own observation.

Have you seen the video of him hugging the singer?
It is a loooooooooooooong hug.
The way he hugged the police officer seems off to me.
Singer and police officer are strangers to him, not close family or friends.

Thanks.

Yeah, I was thinking of the times my parents had me hug people (in one case it actually was a singer) and how weird and awkward it was. I assumed he did it because his parents told him but now I see maybe it was about him as well.

 

[bears10]

Would you go through that to make it look like an accident?
And why would they?
Death was the end goal - apparently.

I am getting more and more sceptical about intent, need more info to be honest.

Time will tell.

Maybe driving off the cliff was the most accessible and easiest way for them to kill so many people at once, including themselves.

 

[nothingnew]

Certainly, but it is stated without speaking of the children, like an extra detail. I get they are looking for the children, but financials, computers, etc., then stating a felony may have been committed? It s spoken without connecting felony with the children. JMO

I'm thinking maybe fleeing from CPS when there had already been a conviction/probation in their history.

 

[keeleydoll]

No, it is tax free, and not used for EIC calculations, so if they otherwise qualified for EIC they could have recieved that as well.

If Sarah made $53,000 or more + taxable bonuses as an asst manager and Jen had a photography business with taxable income they would be over the threshold for EIC. $55,000 total to start the phase out for the child tax credits. Both are capped at maximum benefits for 3 out of the total number of children in the household.

Also, EIC or tax refunds and adoption stipends would not be counted as reliable income when applying for a mortgage.


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