CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #2

[Talulah]

https://search.proquest.com/openvie...9e84d/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

Researchers such as Ogle et al., (1995) have suggested that homicidal women within the domestic context tend to be socially conforming and passive and, as such, often find themselves
subjected to oppressive situations. As a result these women seem to erupt erratically into violence when stress becomes too overwhelming. Data shows that women who participate in the
social world (e.g., gain full time employment) while maintaining the primary caregiver role at home, are more often subject to the possibility of internal tensions (Weisheit, 1986). This is not
to say that all women who are primary caregivers will kill; rather the suggestion is that patterns of violence have emerged among those women who give primary care. Although such theories
may point out the commonalities among certain homicidal women, they fail to encompass the underlying causes of female homicides. Additional difficulties arise when attempting to
distinguish between homicidal theories based on victim type.

Looking more generally at gendered patterns of homicide, women kill most commonly in the domestic arena and intimate partners are killed more frequently than children by women
(Messing & Heeren , 2004). A review of the Messing and Heeren‘s (2004) study on gendered homicide indicated a lack of theories associated with females who kill multiple family members
at once. Although there is a paucity of research in the area on female mass murders who target their family, parallels may be drawn from what is known about female homicide offenders.
Earlier literature concerning child homicide has suggested children are both sources of frustration and easy targets for the alleviation of frustration (e.g., Totman, 1978) and that their
deaths are often the result of excessive physical punishment (Ward et al., 1969). Due to the relatively small number of cases, the limitation with these theories lies in the narrow focus on
single rather than multiple homicides of children. Messing and Heeren‘s (2004), study on female multiple murderers found conflicting evidence about women who kill their children.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm really curious about the location where this "accident" took place. Since they were evidently in Newport, Oregon, they likely went down to California along the coast. Check the map if you want to consider other options, but they all would result in hours-long detours. I know this area of Oregon VERY well. There are dozens of obscure campgrounds, dozens of places to go off a cliff. Why did they choose what they chose? Maybe simply it was pouring with rain, extremely windy, or very foggy, (extremely likely in spring in that area), and their plans got disrupted.

They could have left the other kids in the woods with the dogs and just taken off. They could have left them miles up the Chetco or Rogue Rivers. We're talking "wild and scenic rivers". Those areas are so remote and densely forested, it's scary (and I do a lot outdoors). The kids would have had easy access to water, but no food. They could have fallen or been pushed into a rapid, fueled by spring runoff. So many possibilities.

 

[bluesneakers]

https://search.proquest.com/openvie...9e84d/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

Thank you! That's the one I was looking for but I couldn't find a working link.

 

[Talulah]

Amazing that after abuse allegations they were able to adopt yet more innocent children.

I fear the accusation in 2008 was considered unfounded. However, since they adopted from Texas, maybe the people who handled the adoption didn't know about the prior abuse allegation.

 

[gcharlie]

I agree I think if it was something malfunctioned on the Car or in it the police would already know and wouldn't be saying they think it was done purposely. I am curious if their are houses or anything on or around the area that this happened? I just don't understand how no one heard or seen this happen. How did the person who found them even know?

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Google Juan Creek Bridge. This is not a populated area. German tourists were traveling the route and just happened to look down into the ocean and spot the wreck.

 

[LonelyChild]

Everytime I think of these kids my heart breaks more. Here we have these six beautiful children with their whole lifes ahead of them and they're gone..at the hands of the mothers who made the choice to go and adopt them. It isn't even like either Jen or Sarah gave birth Ti these kids. They didn't need to adopt them, they didn't need to adopt six of them possible overwhelming themselves. These were children, innocent children who came from bad backgrounds and a rough start in life. They went on to be starved, beaten, abused by the women who were supposed to protect, guide and love them. They weren't meant to be treated like accessories these children were people too. I'm sure they had dreams, had ideas of what they were going to be when they got older.. They just had so much life ahead of them it breaks my heart. The little girls probably were just getting into make up and into fashion or nature and the little boys probably would wrestle around the living room. These are children the world no longer has and we will never know the potential these babies had in life. They'll never grow up now, they'll never go to college, get a boyfriend or girlfriend, experience love, have or hold their first child, get a job, get married, get to live their dreams.. Instead at the hands of their mothers they get to be buried at 19,16,15 14 and 12 years old. The kids who are missing most likely won't even be found and again.. This is at the hands of their mothers abuse. I'll never understand how anyone could abuse or especially kill their child. I love these children and I never even met them, I want to protect these children and take their pain away and I never even met them.

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[everybodhi]

Did they say 100% it was on purpose yet? link please

With the investigation ongoing, Barney said he couldn't say whether the crash was a homicide.

"We will consider all those angles," he said, "anything from a terrible accident to a homicide is on the table.

Hart family believed to have been in Newport, Oregon area before cliff plunge

 

[Zelda1010]

Thank you. That's kind of what I was saying in my previous post as well. So much of what's being said so far is conjecture, with much of it based upon hearsay. I am trying to remain open to other possibilities at this time.

I respect your opinion mtnlites. I have no real basis for that, just following my gut based on past experience on this website, I guess.

Could Hannah have wrestled with her own demons? Could the loving, accepting, disciplined environment have been too little, too late for her?

Is it believable that Hannah was desperate and afraid a couple of months ago? Could the Harts need professional intervention but shun mainstream medical care? Similar to the Turpins who probably, imo, should have sought professional help for whomever was the fecal smearer, among other obvious Turpin deficits?

If something happened to Hannah....due to external or internal "demons" ... could the Hart women have panicked?

Let's say for a moment that they engaged in extreme discipline bc they knew no better way or were driven to extreme measures in extreme circumstances due to the children's upbringing prior to adoption....and Hannah succumbs either due to no fault of the Harts' or due to their inadvertently abusive "help"...

I have a very hard time with pure & simple, tragic accident in light of the evidence, both concrete court docs and circumstantial neighbor testimony.

I truly believe if any of the friends or aquaintances might be able to help me make sense of this, it might be you. Tia.

 

[StephanieH]

I find it heartbreaking that after a conviction for child abuse they were able to pull all of the children out of school and have no apparent consequences. If there is any reason to limit or closely monitor homeschooling, that would be the exact scenario.

I agree. Minnesota screwed the pooch on letting them leave the state after Sarah finished her probation. It's also weird that the kids were adopted from Texas while they lived in Minnesota. I thought that was more difficult to do.

 

[flourish]

Everytime I think of these kids my heart breaks more. Here we have these six beautiful children with their whole lifes ahead of them and they're gone..at the hands of the mothers who made the choice to go and adopt them. It isn't even like either Jen or Sarah gave birth Ti these kids. They didn't need to adopt them, they didn't need to adopt six of them possible overwhelming themselves. These were children, innocent children who came from bad backgrounds and a rough start in life. They went on to be starved, beaten, abused by the women who were supposed to protect, guide and love them. They weren't meant to be treated like accessories these children were people too. I'm sure they had dreams, had ideas of what they were going to be when they got older.. They just had so much life ahead of them it breaks my heart. The little girls probably were just getting into make up and into fashion or nature and the little boys probably would wrestle around the living room. These are children the world no longer has and we will never know the potential these babies had in life. They'll never grow up now, they'll never go to college, get a boyfriend or girlfriend, experience love, have or hold their first child, get a job, get married, get to live their dreams.. Instead at the hands of their mothers they get to be buried at 19,16,15 14 and 12 years old. The kids who are missing most likely won't even be found and again.. This is at the hands of their mothers abuse. I'll never understand how anyone could abuse or especially kill their child. I love these children and I never even met them, I want to protect these children and take their pain away and I never even met them.

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In the last one all the girls are smiling and showing teeth... is that the only photo of the one girl with her teeth showing? Do we know when this was taken? Remind me of who is whom in that photo, anyone? Thanks in advance
ETA snipped by me for weird format reasons I don't understand
ETA again wait are those all girls in the last one or is the one in the left a boy?

 

[K_Z]

I find it heartbreaking that after a conviction for child abuse they were able to pull all of the children out of school and have no apparent consequences. If there is any reason to limit or closely monitor homeschooling, that would be the exact scenario.

BBM for focus

I think the bigger issue is what kind of formal court ordered social services monitoring occurs after a conviction for child abuse?

Were social workers visiting the home during Sarah's probation year? Or did Sarah just visit her probation officer at an office?

Identifying/ attacking/ limiting homeschooling as the result of the outcome of the abuse/ neglect problem won't solve the problem of abusive families hiding behind homeschooling, IMO.

Homeschooling has a very active and well funded legal lobby-- HSLDA. Members are passionate about parental rights to determine their child's education, as well as passionate about keeping the option of homeschooling legal everywhere. (We can thank the Amish community for advocating for many of our modern homeschooling laws.)

https://hslda.org/

Simply engaging in homeschooling is not reason enough for social services to be involved-- but I could argue that a substantiated charge of abuse, followed by abrupt withdrawal of kids 8 weeks before the end of the school year, IS reason enough for formal supervision of the kids in the home, and ensuring all of their needs are being met. (And that includes schooling.)

I sincerely doubt that we will ever have an "enforcement" arm of truancy (law enforcement officers) in any state that are charged with investigating and finding un-registered homeschooling families, to bring charges (educational neglect-- how does one define that with so many homeschooling philosophies). I can't see any state having the fortitude or budget to do something like that to their citizens. Most people in America would not stand for that level of intrusiveness on parental rights to determine their children's schooling needs. Homeschooling is legal-- even if not every family has registered "properly".

It's frustrating to see abusive families hiding behind homeschooling-- but homeschooling laws are not the problem. Proper identification of abuse, neglect, and subsequent monitoring of these families is the problem we face, IMO.

 

[LonelyChild]

In the last one all the girls are smiling and showing teeth... is that the only photo of the one girl with her teeth showing? Do we know when this was taken? Remind me of who is whom in that photo, anyone? Thanks in advance
ETA snipped by me for weird format reasons I don't understand
ETA again wait are those all girls in the last one or is the one in the left a boy?

That's Jeremiah

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[flourish]

I agree. Minnesota screwed the pooch on letting them leave the state after Sarah finished her probation. It's also weird that the kids were adopted from Texas while they lived in Minnesota. I thought that was more difficult to do.

Good point! My gay boss and his husband wanted to adopt in a different state and weren't able... Hmm

 

[bluesneakers]

In the last one all the girls are smiling and showing teeth... is that the only photo of the one girl with her teeth showing? Do we know when this was taken? Remind me of who is whom in that photo, anyone? Thanks in advance
ETA snipped by me for weird format reasons I don't understand
ETA again wait are those all girls in the last one or is the one in the left a boy?

Yes, two girls and one boy. But on the top photo you can see Hannah (I think it's Hannah) sticking out her tongue and smiling with a missing tooth. There's another one with her teeth showing and one of her upper teeth is misaligned and sticking out a little more. (I don't know the term.)

 

[everybodhi]

Big search of the coast tomorrow.

The search and rescue effort for the three missing children continues. Mendocino County Sheriff Lt. Shannon Barney said six counties will work together Wednesday during morning low tides to search a larger area, based on Coast Guard computer modeling of water currents and drifts.
The search will include mainly ground units on the beaches but will also have a boat and a helicopter.
"There's a big storm coming Thursday," Barney said, which adds urgency to the search.

Also, the route is based on their cell phone pings.


Hart family believed to have been in Newport, Oregon area before cliff plunge

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Police release surveillance image, travel route of Devonte Hart family before fatal SUV plunge

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...-devonte-hart-family-before-fatal-suv-plunge/

 

[Talulah]

BBM for focus

I think the bigger issue is what kind of formal court ordered social services monitoring occurs after a conviction for child abuse?

Were social workers visiting the home during Sarah's probation year? Or did Sarah just visit her probation officer at an office?

Identifying/ attacking/ limiting homeschooling as the result of the outcome of the abuse/ neglect problem won't solve the problem of abusive families hiding behind homeschooling, IMO.

Homeschooling has a very active and well funded legal lobby-- HSLDA. Members are passionate about parental rights to determine their child's education, as well as passionate about keeping the option of homeschooling legal everywhere. (We can thank the Amish community for advocating for many of our modern homeschooling laws.)

https://hslda.org/

Simply engaging in homeschooling is not reason enough for social services to be involved-- but I could argue that a substantiated charge of abuse, followed by abrupt withdrawal of kids 8 weeks before the end of the school year, IS reason enough for formal supervision of the kids in the home, and ensuring all of their needs are being met. (And that includes schooling.)

I sincerely doubt that we will ever have an "enforcement" arm of truancy (law enforcement officers) in any state that are charged with investigating and finding un-registered homeschooling families, to bring charges (educational neglect-- how does one define that with so many homeschooling philosophies). I can't see any state having the fortitude or budget to do something like that to their citizens. Most people in America would not stand for that level of intrusiveness on parental rights to determine their children's schooling needs. Homeschooling is legal-- even if not every family has registered "properly".

It's frustrating to see abusive families hiding behind homeschooling-- but homeschooling laws are not the problem. Proper identification of abuse, neglect, and subsequent monitoring of these families is the problem we face, IMO.

I agree with you. I was talking specifically about their situation. I don't believe it is reasonable or appropriate for a family with one mother having just been convicted of child abuse to have been allowed to withdraw all children from school without at least some sort of continued monitoring. Especially given that it was the school who reported the abuse.

 

[K_Z]

I agree. Minnesota screwed the pooch on letting them leave the state after Sarah finished her probation. It's also weird that the kids were adopted from Texas while they lived in Minnesota. I thought that was more difficult to do.

How did MN screw up? If her probation was complete, there is nothing the state can do to prevent them from moving somewhere else. Her sentence was served. There is only so much that social services can do-- they can't monitor someone "forever" just because they "might" abuse a child.

Part of what we have to accept in a free society is that we cannot control people who want to do bad criminal things, UNTIL they do bad criminal things. What Sarah was convicted of is not bad enough to remove parental rights, remove kids, limit the family's activities (like moving to a new state, homeschooling). We have to be honest and truthful about what "the state" can realistically do.

IMO, the REAL screw up was letting these 2 women adopt TWO sets of profoundly traumatized kids. That should NEVER have happened. NEVER. IMO. Each one of the 6 kids had serious and deep needs and challenges. These 2 women in their 20's were simply NOT equipped to properly care for and provide for THAT MANY kids with such serious needs, IMO! I think adopting 3 at once was too much-- and then letting them adopt 3 more (similar in age, no less) with severe needs from the foster care system 3 years later is complete incompetence on the part of adoption authorities.

Are adoption authorities so desperate to home kids (and sibling groups) that they overlook such risky placements? It seems so. I don't know if the kids would have beebn bette off in the foster care system, or split up for adoption, than with the Hart women. But IMO, these women were no where even close to appropriately prepared and equipped to care for these children. This is a MASSIVE failure of the inter-state adoption system, IMO.

 

[musemoon]

Amazing that after abuse allegations they were able to adopt yet more innocent children.

This is amazing because parents adopting through foster care are fingerprinted and there is a criminal records search, if there is anything there, they can't adopt, especially an abuse complaint. A homestudy and study of the family is also done just prior to adoption, so if these allegations were substantiated, they shouldn't have been able to adopt another set of kids. When adopting through foster care at the very least there is a social worker in your home once a month as well as the children's attorney and adoption case workers, usually prior to adoption, your home is a zoo, at least if you adopt through a private family resource agency, then the visits are weekly in addition to all of the others mentioned above. This is what I don't understand, they can't adopt again if they have an open or recent accusation of abuse.

https://www.adoptivefamilies.com/adoption-process/navigating-foster-care-adoption-process/

ETA: It looks like the adoptions were finalized before any of the abuse allegations or the domestic violence conviction occurred.

 

[Abp5]

“A woman said Tuesday that she told Oregon child welfare officials in 2013 that Jennifer and Sarah Hart — who plunged off a California cliff with their children last month in an SUV — had been depriving the kids of food as punishment.

In a statement provided to The Associated Press, Alexandra Argyropoulos, a former friend of the Harts, said she "witnessed what I felt to be controlling emotional abuse and cruel punishment" toward the six children.”

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/wo...years-before-deadly-suv-cliff-crash/726606304