CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[SATA]

Abigail said Jen beat and bruised her and put her head under water. Wouldn’t you know who did that to you? It seems odd Sarah pled guilty to the charge.

Of course she knew who did it!

Again an example of children not being believed.

 

[Gooddeeds]

There was discussion of this earlier. Has it been verified Harts didn’t foster any of them before adoption?

“All the siblings were placed with the couple by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, agency spokeswoman Tiffani Butler confirmed. Out-of-state placements are not uncommon, according to Butler, who said privacy rules kept her from saying whether the children were fostered by the Harts before being adopted.”

MORE HERE:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

 

[cady]

Does anyone else think it's ironic that Devonte started going over to the DeKalb's saying they were starving him within days or maybe even the day of his adoption anniversary?

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/03/hart_familys_idyllic_public_im.html

The timeline indicates that Devonte went to the DeKalb's for food for about a week before they called CPS. They called on March 23rd. A week back puts it really near the date of the adoption anniversary. Could it be the kids weren't being "grateful" enough?

Note the" I get this one precious life to live" I, ME, MINE. And when I DECIDE its over, then MY stage props are history, too. Yecch

 

[Poppyflower]

Allman also mentions that the vehicle likely tumbled end over end on its way down the cliff before landing on its roof on the rocks. He cites a v dent on the front end of the vehicle that pushed beyond the radiator. The images I've seen of the vehicle also seem to show a large dent on the rear.

If the women weren't belted in as they say, it is amazing that they weren't ejected as well. Reports are that Sarah's body was wedged between a rear seat and the roof, which stopped her from being ejected.

Nobody wearing seat belts still bothers me and I struggle to understand how that could happen. The women were clearly purposeful in not wearing theirs, but what about the kids? Once my son got to a certain age (probably 7 or so), I don't ever remember having to tell him to buckle up- it was ingrained and automatic. Is it possible that one or both mothers jammed the rear seat belts to make them inoperable?

I think it is bc they planned on falling asleep there. I think they pulled into the turn out and everyone took off their seat belts, got cozy and fell asleep (see my last post with my speculation that maybe sleep meds were used).

I feel sad for the folks who found the body. I can't imagine how horrible it would be and if it is one kids, finding a child feels like it would be worse than an adult.

 

[SATA]

I think it is bc they planned on falling asleep there. I think they pulled into the turn out and everyone took off their seat belts, got cozy and fell asleep (see my last post with my speculation that maybe sleep meds were used).

I agree with you, but wouldn´t it be the sunset they could see from there?

 

[gcharlie]

There is a slight possibility they were all related to each other through their father---maybe living with him when they were taken by CPS? Thus maybe different Mom ?

Thank you for thinking outside of the box.

I clearly was only thinking in terms of the mother. But you are more than right to point out the father.

Prize for you! And none for me! :takeabow::takeabow::takeabow:

 

[katydid23]

There was discussion of this earlier. Has it been verified Harts didn’t foster any of them before adoption?

“All the siblings were placed with the couple by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, agency spokeswoman Tiffani Butler confirmed. Out-of-state placements are not uncommon, according to Butler, who said privacy rules kept her from saying whether the children were fostered by the Harts before being adopted.”

MORE HERE:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...art-family-that-plunged-off-california-cliff/

It was posted upthread, very recently, that the 2nd group was 'visiting' the family, for a little while,as a potential placement, before they were placed there.

 

[Zelda1010]

I think it is bc they planned on falling asleep there. I think they pulled into the turn out and everyone took off their seat belts, got cozy and fell asleep (see my last post with my speculation that maybe sleep meds were used).

I feel sad for the folks who found the body. I can't imagine how horrible it would be and if it is one kids, finding a child feels like it would be worse than an adult.

The last known time is 9:00 pm near Ft Bragg or just north of there. The bridge is about 1/2 an hour North. They may have allowed sprawling on seats a bit for sleeping while driving. Not standard practice for most, but possibly believable? They only care about the impression of perfection. "Shut up and go to sleep now, back there, we're driving." Moo

 

[human]

When I was starting out, albeit a long time ago, the state I taught in combined with the district/unit and provided teacher in-service days for those classes that were counted towards our certification requirements. These are days when the kids are out of school but the teachers have training sessions, most of which were for continuing certification requirements. The state I currently live in does a similar thing. That is not including classes being taken to gain a new degree or new area of instruction.

We had that in MN, too, but the amount of hours for using that type of info was limited, We had to have hours from college classes as well

 

[HeidiTX232]

There was discussion of this earlier. Has it been verified Harts didn’t foster any of them before adoption?

Texas regulations say that a child should be in the home six months before finalization. It *is* possible to get it waived; but it isn’t common. I’ve only heard of it one time and it was definitely an odd circumstance. During that six months, a local agency should have been checking on the family.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Excuse my lack of knowledge in crash dynamics, I genuinely have no clue. What are the chances of survival before final landing?

My take on the no seatbelts is they wanted to project a family event so it was staged as either a ‘mindful parent’ travel nap or getting out of the vehicle together for views and photos...versus a driver who wasn’t in control. I’m curious what are others theories?

 

[K_Z]

Have there been any plans released publicly about a private or public funeral, or memorial service?

Is anyone from Sarah or Jennifer's family coming forward as a family spokesman, regarding funeral arrangements? Or any of their friends?

I know 2 of the teens are still missing, but I'd think by now that some decisions and arrangements would need to be made about funerals. If the parents of Jen or Sarah wanted to bring them all (kids and the women) home to the midwest for in-ground funerals, for example, that would be hugely expensive-- and they might need some financial assistance if they wanted to take that on. (Transporting cremated remains is fairly inexpensive and easy, as is something like inurnment for several family members at once.)

Even very modest arrangements (cremation without a formal service, etc) will be costly for 6-8 people. It's possible that a funeral home might discount, or donate some services, especially for the kids, since this was such a tremendous tragedy-- but someone has to start the process.

Untangling the lives of the women, closing out financial records, taxes, selling of the out of state Washington property, estate sale or donation of the contents of the home-- that is going to be a very big task for whichever family member is considered next of kin. Perhaps they will hand it off to an attorney firm to handle? IDK-- I just know it will be a big job over months of time.

I'm rather surprised that no one seems to have stepped up publicly to at least host a collection to help with final arrangements. But maybe they have, and I just can't find it?

I know that both Jen and Sarah were estranged from their birth families-- but with a tragedy like this, many times a family can put aside their differences to at least come together for funerals. I'm hopeful that they could do that for the sake of the kids, to give the kids a loving final ceremony at least, and a place where they can be remembered together.

But I can certainly understand why it might be awkward for the festival and internet friends of Jen and Sarah to pull back at this point. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't want the media attention.

 

[kizzykat]

Have there been any plans released publicly about a private or public funeral, or memorial service?

Is anyone from Sarah or Jennifer's family coming forward as a family spokesman, regarding funeral arrangements? Or any of their friends?

I know 2 of the teens are still missing, but I'd think by now that some decisions and arrangements would need to be made about funerals. If the parents of Jen or Sarah wanted to bring them all (kids and the women) home to the midwest for in-ground funerals, for example, that would be hugely expensive-- and they might need some financial assistance if they wanted to take that on. (Transporting cremated remains is fairly inexpensive and easy, as is something like inurnment for several family members at once.)

Even very modest arrangements (cremation without a formal service, etc) will be costly for 6-8 people. It's possible that a funeral home might discount, or donate some services, especially for the kids, since this was such a tremendous tragedy-- but someone has to start the process.

Untangling the lives of the women, closing out financial records, taxes, selling of the out of state Washington property, estate sale or donation of the contents of the home-- that is going to be a very big task for whichever family member is considered next of kin. Perhaps they will hand it off to an attorney firm to handle? IDK-- I just know it will be a big job over months of time.

I'm rather surprised that no one seems to have stepped up publicly to at least host a collection to help with final arrangements. But maybe they have, and I just can't find it?

I know that both Jen and Sarah were estranged from their birth families-- but with a tragedy like this, many times a family can put aside their differences to at least come together for funerals. I'm hopeful that they could do that for the sake of the kids, to give the kids a loving final ceremony at least, and a place where they can be remembered together.

But I can certainly understand why it might be awkward for the festival and internet friends of Jen and Sarah to pull back at this point. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't want the media attention.

I can't readily find a link for it but they're not releasing the bodies yet.

 

[SATA]

Have there been any plans released publicly about a private or public funeral, or memorial service?

Is anyone from Sarah or Jennifer's family coming forward as a family spokesman, regarding funeral arrangements? Or any of their friends?

I know 2 of the teens are still missing, but I'd think by now that some decisions and arrangements would need to be made about funerals. If the parents of Jen or Sarah wanted to bring them all (kids and the women) home to the midwest for in-ground funerals, for example, that would be hugely expensive-- and they might need some financial assistance if they wanted to take that on. (Transporting cremated remains is fairly inexpensive and easy, as is something like inurnment for several family members at once.)

Even very modest arrangements (cremation without a formal service, etc) will be costly for 6-8 people. It's possible that a funeral home might discount, or donate some services, especially for the kids, since this was such a tremendous tragedy-- but someone has to start the process.

Untangling the lives of the women, closing out financial records, taxes, selling of the out of state Washington property, estate sale or donation of the contents of the home-- that is going to be a very big task for whichever family member is considered next of kin. Perhaps they will hand it off to an attorney firm to handle? IDK-- I just know it will be a big job over months of time.

I'm rather surprised that no one seems to have stepped up publicly to at least host a collection to help with final arrangements. But maybe they have, and I just can't find it?

I know that both Jen and Sarah were estranged from their birth families-- but with a tragedy like this, many times a family can put aside their differences to at least come together for funerals. I'm hopeful that they could do that for the sake of the kids, to give the kids a loving final ceremony at least, and a place where they can be remembered together.

But I can certainly understand why it might be awkward for the festival and internet friends of Jen and Sarah to pull back at this point. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't want the media attention.

Unspeakably sad to think about.
I couldn´t care less where Jen or Sarah will be laid to rest, but the SIBLINGS, omg.
I hope they are buried together, far away from their "mothers". In a beautiful spot. Not that they care now, but they should at least be shown some respect in death, poor angels.

 

[Hola]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1804/05/ptab.01.html

In here they attempt to explain...he says the injuries that one would expect from seatbelts were not found. I think he also described the wreckage here too. Hth.

I wonder if a possible explanation to the initial confusion about the adults seatbelts is that the adults buckled the seats before sitting down (on top of them) to stop the seatbelt alert noise from startling the kids or simply to look more like an accident. The wreckage would initially show the belts clipped in but then lack of shoulder belt injuries would tell investigators the adults were not actually restrained by the seatbelts.

 

[jantour]

Have there been any plans released publicly about a private or public funeral, or memorial service?

I have wondered the same thing. That little vase of blue flowers placed by the roadside (photo of it posted in the photo gallery link from a few pages back) was so touching to me because it seems like the only outward, physical act of mourning/memorializing that these children have received.

With all their experience making signs and gathering in crowds, these festival people could surely put together a gathering for these poor children, even if we don't yet know where some are. We can still come together to witness for these children.

It makes me so sad, especially since these festival friends seemed to love posing with these kids for FB likes.

MOO

 

[LonelyChild]

I can't readily find a link for it but they're not releasing the bodies yet.

Warning graphic

The sad fact is the child(ren) still missing most likely wont be able to have funerals with open caskets if at all. Due to the fact their bodies have been out in the water for almost two weeks now. I wonder if the body found yeaterday was what someone said they seen before that looked like it had clothes on in the water. Hopefully the waters bring forward the other two bodies in the next few days. Maybe its possible two of the kids escaped. But back on track..the human body decomposes faster when left exposed to the sun. We aren't talking like a regular murder here where the bodies are out in nature but covered these bodies would be exposed to the elements of nature and also be outside in the sun. So whatever animals and insects having picked at by now the bodies would still be pretty bloated and decomposed. Sorry for being graphic. As far as the bodies recovered go they might want to bury them soon too. Idk if they can do anything to stop decomposing depending on how long the bodies were there. Bodies begin the decomposing process almost immediately.

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[emma.laurens]

Not to get too much into it, but my mother is one of five children. One of the sisters estranged herself from everyone. Then my mother went “No Contact” with them, too (cutting my sister and I off from everyone). Since FaceBook, my sister and I have a little contact with my mom’s family, but we aren’t very close.

They’re not awful people, IMO. They’re regular people with personality flaws. My grandmother was supposedly a toxic narcissist, and so was the aunt who went No Contact decades ago.

Here’s the twist: My mother, frankly, is toxic, herself. She does the things she claimed THEY did. Sometimes the person leaving the family behind is the one with the problem.

AND it’s an abusive technique. If you can manage to alienate your intimate partner from their family and friends, they’re more dependent and easier to control. ABUSE 101.

Just to follow up on this (I agree with a lot of what you said), I come from a multi-generational family where my brother and I, Mom, grandparents, and great-grandparents all check the boxes for adult Cluster B personality disorders. I'm the only one whose been diagnosed, though my brother and I both see it in ourselves.

The thing is, it plays out differently in different relationships.

My grandparents were amazing to me and my brother. It didn't even feel like they were hiding a dark side or putting on an act. They just connected to us in a very warm, mostly healthy way. But we only saw them a few times a year.

It was a completely different story with my Mom. My grandpa was emotionally abusive to her for her entire life, until he passed away, and my grandma enabled it. He encouraged abuse from her older siblings, too, and played all of them off each other. My brother and I only got a glimpse of it when my grandfather's guard went down, or he thought we weren't in the room. My great-grandfather, from what I've heard, was the same way. He ended up committed suicide by leaving the car running in the attached garage of their house. If my great-grandma hadn't gotten up in the middle of the night to get water and found him, he probably would have taken her and their still-teenage children out with him. Guess how my Mom remembers my great-grandfather? As a super warm, kind man.

In turn, my Mom was incredibly unstable with us, going from codependently attached to violent on a dime, and still is. But with everyone else- i.e. those who she keeps at arm's length- she's a constant ray of sunshine. As adults, my brother and I constantly play a balancing act between keeping our sanity and our emotional distance from her, and pushing back against people who know her at a superficial level, find her delightful, have sympathetically listened to her sob stories about how mean we are to her, then reach out to us specifically to accuse us of "making her miserable."

So, I totally get what you're saying. At least for some people who are visibly toxic, though, the behaviors can seem to come out of nowhere or be limited to one child, when really there are behind-the-scenes dynamics that are very well-hidden for a reason. It's been kind of bizarre, for instance, for both my brother and I, to be consistently pegged as the source of all my Mom's problems when we've been taking ownership of our own toxic behaviors, and encouraging her to seek out therapy to improve the quality of her life, for going on ten years. It's really hard to see the whole picture sometimes, even when you think you know someone well.

 

[kizzykat]

Dated Friday, 4/6/2018:

"Mendocino County Sheriff Public Information Officer Captain Greg Van Patten told CrimeOnline that authorities were able to identify the remains of Markis Hart, 19; Jeremiah Hart, 14; and Abigail Hart, 14, through photographs and with the help of Jennifer and Sarah Hart’s relatives, who knew their adopted children. Both mothers were found dead inside their 2003 GMS Yukon after it plunged over a cliff into the Pacific Ocean on March 26, with Jennifer behind the wheel. The children were found outside the vehicle. At this time, authorities believe Jennifer drove the SUV over a cliff intentionally.

The sheriff’s office has placed a hold on the recovered bodies, meaning that the remains will not be released to relatives for dispensation at this time."

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...harts-age-may-have-been-miscalculated-police/

 

[staunchcharacter]

http://katu.com/news/local/woman-says-she-reported-cruel-treatment-by-jennifer-and-sarah-hart

In the top pic at this link, what is going on with Markis's jaw?

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Purely moo and speculation but I’ve wondered if Markis has a genetic condition because of the pronounced jawline. It might also explain why at 19, he was maybe not out and about and working or in college. Or maybe he was. Do we even know?


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