Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[fridaybaker]

I know that they often withheld food as a punishment, but what was the point of feeding them so little in general? Any thoughts?

 

[mtnlites]

Re: the photo of Devonte and his "birthday" with the sign that reads: "It's my 14th birthday and I'm raising money for charity." It reminds me sooo much of Joan and Christina Crawford. Allegedly, Christina would get tons of presents for her birthday and magazines would come in and photograph her beautiful party (full of kids she didn't know) and her pile of presents. Then, when she left, Joan would allegedly make her give all but one or two to charity. Joan also frequently used Christina as props for her photos and publicity. (There's no problem with kids wanting to raise money for charity on their birthdays or Christmas. Considering Markis' "punishment" on his birthday, however, and how the children seemed to be used for props anyway, I call shenanigans on Devonte's supposed altruism.)

Note: I don't know how much I believe regarding the Joan/Christina thing. I used to take all of those stories as solid truth, but in the past few years there's been quite a bit of questioning about how much WAS true and how much was made up for sales. Apparently, the original book was much shorter and way less sensational; Christina was asked to "spice it up." Even if it was partially fiction, however, I can still see some similarities with THIS story.

 

[mtnlites]

But in this case, there were several adults saying the food withholding was an issue.

Yes, I know. That was exactly the point that I was making-my entire post was about how the adults let them down and how an ongoing case should have been opened on them.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

But in this case, there were several adults saying the food withholding was an issue.

Right. One plus one is two.

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[human]

Yes, I know. That was exactly the point that I was making-my entire post was about how the adults let them down and how an ongoing case should have been opened on them.

Oh, ok. I got the impression that because it could be something like celiac disease that is why it may not have generated much concern

 

[mtnlites]

Oh, ok. I got the impression that because it could be something like celiac disease that is why it may not have generated much concern

That was just the first line or two of my post. I then went on to say that it should have been taken more seriously and that it wasn't a medical condition, especially since it was 6 children (not one or two) and that they weren't all biologically related. The last part of my post was about how they should have opened a less-intensive ongoing case to monitor their weight to ensure that it wasn't an ongoing issue.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I know that they often withheld food as a punishment, but what was the point of feeding them so little in general? Any thoughts?

Thats my question also. It seems they both were down right mean. No heart. No love. No empathy. Maybe they wanted to spend the money they got on themselves and not food for the kids. Just evil women all around.

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[MrsEmmaPeel]

I know that they often withheld food as a punishment, but what was the point of feeding them so little in general? Any thoughts?

Compliance. Like torture. . . but more. They had this sick idea that health food like dancing and no school would FIX these children. Children aren't made to be fixed.

 

[human]

That was just the first line or two of my post. I then went on to say that it should have been taken more seriously and that it wasn't a medical condition, especially since it was 6 children (not one or two) and that they weren't all biologically related. The last part of my post was about how they should have opened a less-intensive ongoing case to monitor their weight to ensure that it wasn't an ongoing issue.

I am curious as to why when the food withholding has been documented by reporting adults that the concerns would be brushed aside.

It can be physically seen that there is something unusual and there are adults saying that dood is withheld, why the strange lack of red flag?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Why would he think they would be split up?


IMO

The difficulty of placing six kids all with one family I guess. And perhaps JH and SH had told them that when they were "coached".

:cow:

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I am curious as to why when the food withholding has been documented by reporting adults that the concerns would be brushed aside.

I don't think CPS did brush it aside. They did what they could by requesting a doctor's visit. I hate to play devil's advocate for the doctor, but in some of the photos the children are skin and bones but lively-looking. They're almost always healthy with engaged and active faces, glowing skin. Doctors must see so many obese children now or truly sickly ones from no exercise and poor junk food diets. The OR doctor may truly have been acting in good conscience to say that she/he could find nothing alarming. Remember how these children present: family supportive, mother-supporting-- until the deKalbs. Finally-- I remember in my childhood, there were no fat children. Most of my friends were SKINNY and I mean skinny. I am not defending these monsters, just saying that these children presented so well, that people didn't know what to believe. Until the deKalbs.

 

[waschbaer]

I know that they often withheld food as a punishment, but what was the point of feeding them so little in general? Any thoughts?

Control. Sadism. Jen projecting her own body/food issues onto her scapegoats.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I understood it to mean the school stopped reporting it to the "parents" because they realized the kids were being punished as a result.

Yes. The MN schools stopped reporting the food issue to the parents because they feared the children would be punished more at home. (according to the CPS document) When I was a teacher, we personally fed hungry children. We bought classroom food. I'm sure those teachers did something similar.

 

[mtnlites]

I don't think CPS did brush it aside. They did what they could by requesting a doctor's visit. I hate to play devil's advocate for the doctor, but in some of the photos the children are skin and bones but lively-looking. They're almost always healthy with engaged and active faces, glowing skin. Doctors must see so many obese children now or truly sickly ones from no exercise and poor junk food diets. The OR doctor may truly have been acting in good conscience to say that she/he could find nothing alarming. Remember how these children present: family supportive, mother-supporting-- until the deKalbs. Finally-- I remember in my childhood, there were no fat children. Most of my friends were SKINNY and I mean skinny. I am not defending these monsters, just saying that these children presented so well, that people didn't know what to believe. Until the deKalbs.

Honestly, it wasn't until the pictures I saw today of the kids painting in the floor that I really thought they looked unhealthily skinny. They're pretty kids with big grins (Hannah not smiling wouldn't have alarmed me-my son almost never smiles in pictures and has looked put out since he was an infant), good-looking teeth, nice clothes, and healthy-looking skin. If I'd seen the other pictures out of context, without knowing that their parents were starving them or that there were any issues, I probably would not have had any red flags raised. I feel that looking at them now, with the information we have, definitely gives the images more meaning. I do feel like the doctor should have been alarmed at their weight, however, and he/she apparently was because they recommended further monitoring.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why the focus on an international registry for abuse cases? Oregon State KNEW about six abuse allegations in Minnesota, with two of them, I believe, being what they call "founded" and one having resulted in SH being arrested. This was in addition to the TWO separate complaints filed in Oregon. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW.

And that's why they pursued the investigation. I mean, someone had to do the legwork to follow through with MN. While there was dialogue, I wonder if the problem is that what happens in one state may not transfer to another, as a cause for action. That may be the point of a national registry, so that what happens in one state is admissible or actionable in another. The OR CPS report seems amazingly thorough to me-- they just ran out of time.

 

[Shiressleuth]

A poster on an earlier thread (sorry, I can't remember who this is) said he/she had a suspicion that the 3 children from the first adoption were "old news" (I'm paraphrasing) and that they were treated worse than the second set. It seems that poster was correct.

I now believe they just adopted them for the $1900 per month. They certainly didn't spend it on much food for the kids.

 

[Shiressleuth]

And that's why they pursued the investigation. I mean, someone had to do the legwork to follow through with MN. While there was dialogue, I wonder if the problem is that what happens in one state may not transfer to another, as a cause for action. That may be the point of a national registry, so that what happens in one state is admissible or actionable in another. The OR CPS report seems amazingly thorough to me-- they just ran out of time.

The criminal record would still show though right? CPS only had to look at that.

 

[katydid23]

I now believe they just adopted them for the $1900 per month. They certainly didn't spend it on much food for the kids.

They didn't spend it on food for them. Or school expenses. Or the usual teen expenses===going to movies with friends, hanging at the mall and having In and Out burgers, with other kids from school, driving lessons, manicures, the pizza parlor, school football games. Having teens is very expensive, which is why mine had part time jobs.---Which helped prepare them for adulthood and future career goals.

And it really makes me sad that these 6 beautiful souls missed out on all of that.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Plus, I just recalled, Devonte, Jeremiah, and Ciera had already lost their oldest brother, because the Harts did not want him.

Where is the info about an older brother? TIA

 

[Shiressleuth]

Also noting Shiressleuth's "Mamgu", I'll add that I've heard people use "Mam" and "Pap" in the northeast/Great Lakes area of the US, and even "Da" for Dad. So "Yes Ma'am" easily could have been misheard for "Yes, Mam". Really, any variation on "Mom" could be a simple ethnic or regional use that one or both of the Hart women picked up in childhood and taught the kids. I grew up saying Mommy and Daddy, but I know plenty of people who say Mama as well (or Momma, which I never even saw spelled that way until perhaps ten years ago).

I also know of a very proper and dignified family whose parents were only called Mother and Father - yet they called their grandmother Granny. And another of distant French extraction whose grandparents are Grandmère and Grandpère. There are many pet name variations for family members in 'adult' positions, even in families whose last 2 or 3 generations grew up speaking only English at home.

Yes but in this instance I think this was as another poster said "like a camp commandant". And I don't think the neighbour misheard.

<modsnip>

They certainly weren't starving themselves.