Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[Sleuth99]

People grasp for control when things feel out of control. I absolutely believe that JH bit off more than she could chew, likely exasperating her own issues, and that this turned out tragically. It’s possible that this all could have happened with a biological child or just one fairly healthy adoptive child because she may well have had significant enough issues for that to be the problem. But it almost definitely made it worse that she adopted so many kids “from hard places,” Kids known to have some exceptionalities themselves. It’s quite challenging to handle when you’re pretty healthy yourself.

Yea I think there different ways to look at her behavior. We'll never know the outcomes of the other hypothetical situations but I do think it's important to closely examine what we know of her behavior.


IMO

 

[?mysterian?]

This is where the problem is. As long as you're getting a subsidy check, you're not "just like every other family." As long as a state is giving taxpayer money for the adoption, then it has an obligation to the taxpayers to make sure those children are better off than before the adoption. And it needs to be more often than every 5 years (although even 5 years in this case would have saved these children's lives).I had absolutely no idea before this case that states handed out money post-adoption, let alone that they do it with no check-ups required.

States have different post-adoption services available. The website at link has information https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics...yState:main.getAnswersByQuestion&questionID=7

 

[LeighB]

That's what I said in my original post, too-that the only picture that made me flummoxed was the painting one, but I didn't see it until last night.

mtnlites, you said you have some mutual friends with the Harts, right? Do you have any insights on their responses since last night's news came out?

 

[Kajol85]

This was posted on her Facebook. How many of her friends saw this? Did
nothing?

^^^^

In obese America, skinny children is virtue signaling.
They are naturally thin from all the organic healthful foods, and lack of sugars /s
I honestly don't think people were paying much attention if they only were seeing the kiddos on fb. Everything was so staged.. idk

Also the "friends"seem not the sharpest tools in the shed

 

[mtnlites]

mtnlites, you said you have some mutual friends with the Harts, right? Do you have any insights on their responses since last night's news came out?

The initial shock at their deaths had quite a bit of "it couldn't have been intentional, these were wonderful women" types of comments but, as details have unfolded, I've seen fewer and fewer defensive posts. The last ones I saw were about a week ago. What I have seen are people kind of going, "now that we know what was going on, the rest of it makes sense." These women were such good manipulators that they were able to easily explain away anything that looked awry, and they apparently cut out people who questioned them too strongly. From what I have seen, it wasn't so much that people were blind as it was that the Hart women had ready explanations that sounded good.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the friend who was going to write a book with Jen. If I receive a message with some screenshots from Jen, I'll send them through the mod and we'll go from there.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Can you tell me where you read that Sarah was found wedged in the back of the vehicle? I hadn't read that before. Thanks in advance!

Oh, IIRC, this was an early article when the details of the crash were coming out. I recall the GMC was craned out of the water and rocks with both bodies still inside because both J&S were wedged. Sarah was wedged between the front and back. Sounds like over the headrest. They gave the positioning and some details about the children thrown outside. Also a giant V impact dent as the car hit and rolled.

I know there are links to the early articles on the investigation, but they are somewhere here in thread 1 or 2? Maybe also on the Mendocino Cty site?

 

[waschbaer]

^^^^

In obese America, skinny children is virtue signaling.
They are naturally thin from all the organic healthful foods, and lack of sugars /s
I honestly don't think people were paying much attention if they only were seeing the kiddos on fb. Everything was so staged.. idk

Also the "friends"seem not the sharpest tools in the shed

In my own experience as a larger lady, fatness is especially demonized among the "all natural" crowd around here. As Jen figured out with her sinister cleverness, all she had to do was say the tiniest kid "used to be obese" and suddenly the scrutiny was off and she was a freakin' hero for getting the kid "off junk food" and down to a petite size. Absolutely virtue signaling. "You're just used to seeing fat people, we're SLENDER and VEGAN." rolling my eyes

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM. Yes. Nascar fans, Parrotheads, Opera buffs: whatever the affinity group is, the sad truth is that you'll find some bad parents in it. I don't think I've ever read anything that says a particular group stands out from the rest as being significantly worse. They were two very good (and obviously articulate) manipulators who were willing to do whatever it took to do what they wanted to do. That speaks to who they were as people, not what their hobbies/interests were.

- I think they were groupies, and the children were their ticket to some kind of fame attention they were seeking. All the musicians, the BLM protest, The free Hugs project, and Bernie. I am sure I am missing a couple. Would anyone have paid attention to just them?

They used their kids and Devonte in particular as their back stage pass, and their front and center chosen image. Crafting a narrative that was based in fiction.

The festival circuit was just their stage. It could have been any group...

Where this feels maudlin, with a minefield of metaphors, is in the usury of children, on a stage, at a festival, on FB, - It has some tones of vaudeville. -Of exhibition. -Of a time when children really had no rights. Forcing Devonte onstage with the musician for that extended hug and breakdown spun as his devoted heart. Same with the iconic photo at the BLM protest. The we are greatful thanksgiving video. The publishing of a child dancing in his skivvies.

Jen was not smart but she found like minded people to group on to, and shunned the ones who caught on, saw through her.

Her community only saw what she wanted them to see. The children only knew what she wanted them to know.

It was only when she couldn't control the narrative that she ended it for all. I don't know where this all fits into the psychology, but this woman was self deluded, living in a fictional world. She may have been articulate, but still not much saner than the Turpins.

 

[Kajol85]

The reports of the not feediing and the skeletal appearance. Um, what!

The doctor is no good. No. No. She is not. She believed the nice middle class mothers.

^^ At minimum couldn't he/she have asked for a follow up in 6 weeks to get a baseline?

 

[Kajol85]

IMO, the physical punishment did not stop after Sarah pleaded guilty..

Hannah lost her teeth in 2012. I seriously doubt that was an accident.

If Markis was grabbed and dragged in 2013 at age 14, there was still physical abuse taking place.

The threat of physical discipline would make the kids more compliant when it came to the other extreme and unusual forms of discipline used by the parents.

The abuse only seemed escalate as the years went by. The DeKalbs were unaware of any children living next door until Hannah ran over.
That is crazy. Six kids especially preteen/teens, are loud!

They must have had them so weak from starvation the had no energy

 

[Doghairrules]

I think the doctor means that without previously examining them, she wouldn't be able to tell whether or not that the small size was due to their previous, before-the-adoption condition, or it was a current problem. However, wouldn't that be flagged for an automatic follow-up doctor visit?

And couldn’t they request medical records?

 

[Doghairrules]

RE: Hannah. She didn't loose her permanent front teeth until May 2012. The details about the shoved banana incident is dated 2011. Makes me wonder, however, with the comments about Hannah being disrespectful and also actively seeking out other food sources and reporting the lack of food, that the loss of the front teeth later on is related to this ongoing issue. I really don't believe Jen's account that she tripped and fell. These newly released details show just how brutal and cruel Jen was capable of being over the tiniest of infractions.

Speaking of Jen and Sarah, I kind of wish they were alive right now so they would know that EVERYONE KNOWS what they did.

 

[Kajol85]

I cannot give Sarah a pass. She accepted the abuse to the children and participated in some herself. She was gone for six months. Jen took the kids for weeks at a time.

Sarah had her own sick dependency with Jen for whatever reason.

She is a coconspirator. No pity. She watched those little darlings get treated in horror.

She was an active participant and DGAF. Remember it was she who said her child was "playing the food card" 😡 And to just give her water. She was also the one seen abusing a child (Hannah /Abigail? )for eating food someone bought her at a festival. She smoothed it all over when cps came knocking, she left them alone with that psycho, she seemed to show no love to any of the kids. Ugh

 

[Kajol85]

And couldn’t they request medical records?

Right? Just absolute laziness and shoddy work

 

[Doghairrules]

Also noting Shiressleuth's "Mamgu", I'll add that I've heard people use "Mam" and "Pap" in the northeast/Great Lakes area of the US, and even "Da" for Dad. So "Yes Ma'am" easily could have been misheard for "Yes, Mam". Really, any variation on "Mom" could be a simple ethnic or regional use that one or both of the Hart women picked up in childhood and taught the kids. I grew up saying Mommy and Daddy, but I know plenty of people who say Mama as well (or Momma, which I never even saw spelled that way until perhaps ten years ago).

I also know of a very proper and dignified family whose parents were only called Mother and Father - yet they called their grandmother Granny. And another of distant French extraction whose grandparents are Grandmère and Grandpère. There are many pet name variations for family members in 'adult' positions, even in families whose last 2 or 3 generations grew up speaking only English at home.

Among my lesbian couple friends, two have children who call one mama and one mommy and 1 has a child who calls one mama and 1 first name-ie (an ie on the end of
The first name).

 

[Doghairrules]

^^^^

I too am surprised the DeKalbs didn't call LE that night. Blackberry brambles *hurt* she must have been terrified and, it must have been dire, absolutely dire for her to risk it all like that. I can only imagine how much worse she got it, once the Harts got her back.

Dana's Dad was disturbed enough he did the right thing and called even if it was months late. I am sure Dana will never sleep right again.

Never underestimate the power of people to be in denial.
When I was in 4th grade,
I told my teacher my mom hated me. She told me my mom didn’t hate me because she bragged about how smart I was (uh, that’s not love). So she told my mom what I said, I guess thinking that my mom would tell me how much she loved me. Instead, she beat the hell out of me.

I guess if you’ve never witnessed an abusive situation it’s hard to wrap your head around?

But like you, no way would I have handed that precious baby back over to them. I would have called the police.

 

[Doghairrules]

And the State of Oregon knew they were "skilled liars and manipulators" from day one, from the contact with the State of Minnesota.

Right? And the Oregon caseworker appeared to do all the follow up she could have possibly
Done. Makes me wonder if someone higher up the food chain closed the case.

 

[Sleuth99]

Never underestimate the power of people to be in denial.
When I was in 4th grade,
I told my teacher my mom hated me. She told me my mom didn’t hate me because she bragged about how smart I was (uh, that’s not love). So she told my mom what I said, I guess thinking that my mom would tell me how much she loved me. Instead, she beat the hell out of me.

I guess if you’ve never witnessed an abusive situation it’s hard to wrap your head around?

But like you, no way would I have handed that precious baby back over to them. I would have called the police.

Sorry that happened to you.


IMO

 

[Momoffourboys]

Speaking of Jen and Sarah, I kind of wish they were alive right now so they would know that EVERYONE KNOWS what they did.

Instead, they probably died thinking they were thought of as heros, martyrs who gave it all up for “their family”.

I don’t think I have hated someone I don’t know this much.

 

[gitana1]

Speaking of Jen and Sarah, I kind of wish they were alive right now so they would know that EVERYONE KNOWS what they did.

I was just thinking that! I hate them. I wish they knew how disgusted the world is with them.