Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[debbiegarcia36]

Even though that 30 page CPS document is very thoroughly documented, I wonder about the whole evaluation process. Like no requirements to produce homeschool registry, naturopathic physician contacts, dentist contacts, adoption paperwork that states the claims Jen made about their mental status.

I mean what happens if you just pull kids off of psychotropic drugs, or make a diagnosis about a child without a doctor? Oh, 'we don't believe it is true'. This answer on several kids. I am surprised that was acceptable.

I knew no one in school without their two front teeth. How was that acceptable?

And all under the height and weight chart - surely paperwork came with the kids when they were adopted?

I have to research but naturopathic physicians are licensed to practice in but a very few states, even though they have medical degrees... Think PA and CT are the two states in the northeast.

CPS was not able to connect the dots to the isolation these kids were suffering. They were not able to thread a timeline.

Isolation is one of the cruelest forms of abuse as we found out in the Turpin case.

In Jenn and Sarah Hart's last escape from CPS, I am sure they were well aware of that high profile case and the parallels. They weren't worried about the kids getting taken away, they knew they were going to prison. -Jmo

Bingo! I wholeheartedly agree. CPS did no follow up, no investigation, no fact checking. They took the mumsters word for it and dropped the ball.


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[human]

I cannot give Sarah a pass. She accepted the abuse to the children and participated in some herself. She was gone for six months. Jen took the kids for weeks at a time.

Sarah had her own sick dependency with Jen for whatever reason.

She is a coconspirator. No pity. She watched those little darlings get treated in horror.

 

[scandinavian girl]

In the report one of the momsters says they're vegetarian so they're "slender." Are both the momsters vegetarians? Because one of them is not what I'd call slender!

I think the momster is making her on truths, after my 20 years of being a vegetarian slender is not how I would describe myself

 

[rosemadderlake]

Too many balls dropped to count. I would think the fact that the woman who didn't want to be identified for fear of losing touch, as one of the very few in touch with the kids combined with their obvious very small stature, no doctors, dentists, school registry, obvious coaching, would have been cause to consult law enforcement.

 

[human]

Too many balls dropped to count. I would think the fact that the woman who didn't want to be identified for fear of losing touch, as one of the very few in touch with the kids combined with their obvious very small stature, no doctors, dentists, school registry, obvious coaching, would have been cause to consult law enforcement.

One would think so. I can not emphasize enough that children are considered possessions in the US. There are so many laws that protect parent’s rights to do as they please. Hit their children even though that is assault for an adult.

Have no oversight over a child’s education. Children can get married right here in the US.

The first child abuse laws in the early 1900’s were made by animal welfare rights people who were horrified as to how children were treated.

I think it is good for people to see from these reports as to how the CPS is hamstrung.

Even leaving a card. How adorable.

 

[HeidiTX232]

So the actual fact that these women wanted to adopt 6 kids was a red flag just by itself do you think? It's pretty much unheard of by what you're saying it seems.

Almost every foster-adoptive parent I know has adopted multiple children. But between bio, foster, and adoptive children, people are limited on how many they can take in at a time. Also, it’s more “normal” to adopt a couple sibling groups rather than just one. Only one of my friends has adopted a large sibling group rather than a couple smaller ones.

I really have trouble with the idea that people should be suspect because they are one of the few who will take in and care for multiple kids that other people tend to forget on a day to day basis. If more people would take one or two kids in at a time, those of us doing this hard work wouldn’t have to take in so many. It absolutely kills me to say no to kids knowing they will go to shelters or sleep in CPS offices. It’s hard are for me to thinknour family is done fostering when I know I have room in my home and heart for more and that they’d thrive here. It’s difficult to shut your doors when you know most people won’t even consider opening theirs. Being willing to adopt and love 3, 6, 10 kids is NOT a red flag.

Lots of issues with the Harts. But most people adopting kids simply want children and want to help kids needing a home. Neither is a red flag.

 

[Breamworthy]

Even though that 30 page CPS document is very thoroughly documented, I wonder about the whole evaluation process. Like no requirements to produce homeschool registry, naturopathic physician contacts, dentist contacts, adoption paperwork that states the claims Jen made about their mental status.

I mean what happens if you just pull kids off of psychotropic drugs, or make a diagnosis about a child without a doctor? Oh, 'we don't believe it is true'. This answer on several kids. I am surprised that was acceptable.

I knew no one in school without their two front teeth. How was that acceptable?
<snip>

I couldn't agree more. They were extremely thorough in their paperwork. Too bad they couldn't be just a fraction as thorough in their follow-up.

 

[LeighB]

The OR CPS report seems amazingly thorough to me-- they just ran out of time.

I'm curious what you mean by "ran out of time." IIRC, they closed the report in 5 days, and the family lived in OR for another 3 years.

I'm not sure if WA would have handled it differently if they knew of the prior history. ...

I did find it interesting that the OR CPS report failed to mention that the children were not registered as home schooled. This should have been another red flag where the mothers were deliberately attempting to avoid any kind of monitoring. They repeated this in WA as well.
.

I would like to know why OR sought the MN history, but WA didn't seek prior history. I saw somewhere that OR looked to MN because one of the friends who reported them mentioned MN plates on the car. Couldn't WA simply have asked for previous addresses?

And yes, why did neither state look into the failure to register as homeschoolers?

&#8220;The children provided nearly identical answers to all questions asked,&#8221; the Oregon DHS report states. &#8220;All of the children, except Devonte, appeared very reserved and showed little emotion or animation.&#8221;

Well, at this point, I'm inclined to agree with Jen: the children probably couldn't live on their own once they became adults. They probably actually were emotionally broken. Completely broken. Because she broke them.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Map of naturopathic medicine. Actually many more states are coming on board... West coast has practices, for a long time. So who was their naturopath?

 

[Breamworthy]

"DHS investigators note that Sarah is often away from the children for weeks or months at a time when Jennifer takes the six kids to music festivals. One of the family friends described Sarah as being "cold" to the kids &#8211; parading them around for pictures, but not showing them affection."
http://www.koin.com/news/washington...egon-dhs-hart-family-investigation/1136867286

When JH and the kids were gone for weeks or months attending music festivals, where did they stay? Friends? Campgrounds? Hotels + festival entrance fees would get quite costly. Were they traveling with others attending or performing in the same festival circuit? If so, why didn't any of them notice or say anything when someone they stayed with for 2 weeks saw so much and reported it? The glowing comments about the family are so contradictory to what was happening. Weeks or months in close proximity to the festival regulars, JH's mask had to slip off sooner or later, one would think. MOO

I've seen some festivals offer subsidies, etc. for lower-income families, so that could have come into play. (Sometimes when you register, you have the option to pay extra into a fund for this purpose.)

I'm very curious what SH got up to while everyone else was away for "weeks or months". Was she just working and sitting home alone? (Somehow I doubt it.) It also makes me question how much she was under JH's control - I've been unfortunate to know a few controlling abusers, and they would not leave their "partner" alone for days, let alone weeks or longer.

 

[Momoffourboys]

The whole "donation" thing is such a turn-off to me. I never donate blindly. I have vast experience with doing so, and it mostly goes to nothing good. Sometimes it goes to evil. It's taken me a long time in life to realize how much one can do to be charitable in one's daily life, with those he knows, and anything else should be vetted very carefully. It's so very easy to do harm while trying to do good.

Agreed. I feel terrible even admitting this, but, I have stopped giving monetary donations. I give food, clothing, holiday gifts for families in need and I volunteer my time. But money, nope.

I bet these two kept whatever donations they received for their own selfish usage. God knows the kids didn’t even get food. They certainly didn’t get perks from any donations.

 

[SarahW]

People can get in over their head indulging their altruistic impulses, and many people who foster do it to supplement the household income...it's their reason for taking in multiple groups. Each home needs to be vetted and monitored individually, and not everyone should make a career of fostering. Jen Hart was too young and too dependent on the assistance. She had personal issues, which were glossed over if they were investigated at all. and no legal marriage partner obligated to support her,even if she had a live-in relationship.

Why Texas was so hot to export the kids out of state remains a mystery. But these kids weren't helped or saved.

 

[SarahW]

Also one of the doors was torn off, found on the rocky cliff face. Even with evertthing rolled up and locked down, it's common for unbelted and even unbelted pasengers to be ejected if the forces are great enough. I believe Sarah was found wedged in the back of the vehicle, I presume she had been sitting in front.

 

[Mira_Eg]

FBI: According to its spokesperson Catherine Zackle, FBI still searching for the two missing children.
Link: http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...sons-search-for-devonte-hart-and-hannah-hart/
LE: "The Mendocino County Sheriff&#8217;s Office has stopped responding to CrimeOnline&#8216;s inquiries for further information. Zackle confirmed to CrimeOnline that the sheriff&#8217;s department is still the lead agency in the investigation, and that the FBI is assisting them. She said she could not provide any specifics about possible leads or the locations where a search is taking place."

 

[Sleuth99]

People can get in over their head indulging their altruistic impulses, and many people who foster do it to supplement the household income...it's their reason for taking in multiple groups. Each home needs to be vetted and monitored individually, and not everyone should make a career of fostering. Jen Hart was too young and too dependent on the assistance. She had personal issues, which were glossed over if they were investigated at all. and no legal marriage partner obligated to support her,even if she had a live-in relationship.

Why Texas was so hot to export the kids out of state remains a mystery. But these kids weren't helped or saved.

See I don't think she became in over her head. I think it's one thing to be overwhelmed, but we can't ignore how strategic she was and intentional with her punishments. She was in control-- the complete opposite.


IMO

 

[waschbaer]

In Oregon, naturopaths (who are NOT medical doctors--they do not complete a hospital residency, they do not take the medical board exam, they go to a naturopathic school that does not teach all the things taught in a medical school) are given privileges they are not allowed in many other states. For one thing, they are considered equal to MDs in terms of consideration for coverage under the Oregon Health Plan, our version of Medicaid. In fact my premature and sick daughter was assigned one as her PCP by default while she was in ICU--I had to call and demand a change ASAP before she was discharged with no qualified physician to see her for followup! This is because naturopaths have done extensive, expensive lobbying in the state. I used to blog on local healthcare politics--I could go on and on, trust me. It's a dirty business.

Because of this, we are also a magnet state for naturopaths who are, let's say, not skilled enough to be competitive in other states where it's harder to get reimbursement. In short there are a lot of questionable practitioners around and the court cases I read to report on would make your hair stand on end.

 

[HeidiTX232]

People can get in over their head indulging their altruistic impulses, and many people who foster do it to supplement the household income...it's their reason for taking in multiple groups. Each home needs to be vetted and monitored individually, and not everyone should make a career of fostering.
<snip>
Why Texas was so hot to export the kids out of state remains a mystery. But these kids weren't helped or saved.

I agree that people can get in over their heads. I haven’t seen any who do it primarily for the money though I’ll agree that it can happen. Each home most certainly is vetted. There is very little more that could be done in that regard, Imo. And it is certainly true than many cannot do this long term (and the majority don’t).

I detailed a few threads ago what goes into placing kids out of state (from Texas). They most certainly did not separate the three from their brother or send them to MN on a dime. These things are contingent on some pretty significant findings (most likely the problem finding them TX homes were them being black, siblings, including males, and some significant issues). So they searched out of state and found a childless couple who were happy to accept them after learning of their histories and needs. TX has a LOT of kids needing homes and so they work with other states when they can’t find the kids a home nearby (the preference).

It is very true and sad that the kids were not even adequately well off with the Harts. In the end, they were abused and then murdered. They deserved better than that, a lot better!

 

[debbiegarcia36]

See I don't think she became in over her head. I think it's one thing to be overwhelmed, but we can't ignore how strategic she was and intentional with her punishments. She was in control-- the complete opposite.


IMO

I dont think she was in control the last year and a half. She definitely was loosing it. She got in over her head the moment she lost control in MN and hit a 6 year old with a belt. They were going from state to state looking over their backs, hiding the kids, from schools, neighbors, friends. On the run like fugitives up to the final end.

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[HeidiTX232]

See I don't think she became in over her head. I think it's one thing to be overwhelmed, but we can't ignore how strategic she was and intentional with her punishments. She was in control-- the complete opposite.


IMO

People grasp for control when things feel out of control. I absolutely believe that JH bit off more than she could chew, likely exasperating her own issues, and that this turned out tragically. It’s possible that this all could have happened with a biological child or just one fairly healthy adoptive child because she may well have had significant enough issues for that to be the problem. But it almost definitely made it worse that she adopted so many kids “from hard places,” Kids known to have some exceptionalities themselves. It’s quite challenging to handle when you’re pretty healthy yourself.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Two things about Markis. I noticed in the picture posted earlier, Markis as a very young boy did not have the protruding jawline that he had as he matured.

Also, my heart breaks for him that even on his birthday...he was punished. Noone was allowed to wish him a happy bday. I know this is small in the grand scheme of the hell these children lived. But, a young boy who had gone through so much already...this is devastating. Poor sweet innocent boy.