CA - Jaycee Dugard, 11, South Lake Tahoe, 10 June 1991 - #2

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They are also searching the house next door to the Garrido's. Maybe we need to check into this neighbor (his name is stated in the article).

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66054&catid=2

The neighbor who was named in the article had a girlfriend in 2006 who reported the tents and seeing people there. She reported seeing Jaycee, the two older daughters and two four year old girls.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/richmond/detail?entry_id=46477

EP "aid people came and went from the property but the core group consisted of two girls about 4 years old, one girl about 11, another girl about 15 and a young woman about 25. They were all blond, she said."
 
...and I can't believe her lawyer is saying WE have to UNDERSTAND she did not even have a speeding ticket until now...I think WE UNDERSTAND perfectly what her involvment is...I can't believe he's trying to get the publics' "understanding"....

BBM. How does having a clean driving record negate the fact she kidnapped a child, and did god knows what, since 1991? What an idiotic comment he made.
 
BBM. How does having a clean driving record negate the fact she kidnapped a child, and did god knows what, since 1991? What an idiotic comment he made.
"First time offender." Thinking it might help in mitigation. :furious:
 
BBM. How does having a clean driving record negate the fact she kidnapped a child, and did god knows what, since 1991? What an idiotic comment he made.

Ted Bundy didn't have a whole lot on his record, either, did he Mr. Public Defender? I'm afraid all my empathy allotment for this case is 100% for Jaycee, her daughters, parents and extended family.
 
....every single second,minute and day that she knew about what was going on in her back yard should count as a seperate offense...
 
Just think about it. When the multi-agency task force did a spot search at the Perp's home there was nothing inside that indicated anybody other than the Perp, Mrs. Perp and the elderly mother were there. Eighteen years and not one item in that house related to JC and the children. They were never let into the house. One hundred percent of the time they were treated like backyard dogs.
 
....every single second,minute and day that she knew about what was going on in her back yard should count as a seperate offense...
In California hazardous materials laws, each day is a separate violation! Why can't they do the same thing for kidnapping minors!
 
I understand what you say! Expanding your vocab and surpassing a Dick & Jane world depends on being taught larger words and ideas and I doubt they had that.
The content of what they were given to read is frightening if you have no other compass to compare it to. Maybe that is why they are described as being blank. I CAN NOT imagine having that as my only reading material (as well as the fruitcake stuff he penned). I just hope they are unable to do anything more than color within the lines of a coloring book!
ITA! For all intent and purposes Jaycee was "frozen in time" at age 11. We don't know her reading ability at that age - was she "average", above average, did she like to read, was she a "struggling" reader - we simply don't know. All the moms that have posted about their child and how they were reading at her age - no child is alike. Plus, you have to keep in mind that you were there guiding, loving, and encouraging your children.

As a teacher for almost 20 years now (and teaching this age group) I can't see her "advancing" herself. It just doesn't work that way and not having any knowledge of her reading ability when she was taken just makes it all wild speculation. Plus the trauma of being raped (and God knows what else) will have a HUGE effect on her emotional and mental development. I have worked with children that have been traumatized from all kinds of events. There is no set of parameters for these children. Some are voracious learners and do very well - others are stagnated for years, not learning anything until one day they just "bloom" and then catch up fairly quickly. It all depends on the child.

We don't know if these subhumans taught her, read to her or what she was given to read way back then. Depending on those variables - he could have very easily begun his mind control / brainwashing of her. Her tender age would have been a huge asset and certainly NOT a hinderance in this endeavor.

Here is an except concerning reading and 11 year olds:

By grade five, schools rarely give a separate mark for reading but there are still certain expectations. Children who fall a grade or two below the norm should be getting special help to catch up - or at least stay on par with their classmates.


Sight vocabulary: The average 11-year-old should be able to take a stab at most of the words, but might not know what many of them mean.

This would mean that someone would have had to work with her concerning definitions - remember she wasn't in a normal setting - no small talk at the dinner table, driving around seeing billboards, television and any other form of print aids in the child's process of development - being held captive in a backyard much less the trauma that was inflicted on her early on could have also hindered her development

Oral fluency: The ability to read a story out loud varies considerably. For a child with appropriate material, given a few minutes to practice, oral reading should be almost as fast and fluent as regular speaking.

I am willing to bet that all she was given to read early on was the Bible. Difficult reading - syntax, vocabulary and "voice". Although I'm sure he was more than willing to "help" her with this book.

Comprehension: For most junior novels, an average student should be able to discuss characters, plot and plot devices, and write a personal response to the material.

Key word - JUNIOR novels. Books from Koontz and Steele are not junior novels. Although she probably wasn't given those until much later on. Plus the plots of some of Steele's novels would have "helped" his effort in "controling" her and making her believe her station in life was what it was.

What they could read aloud to you, if they wanted to: Bright 11-year-olds can read almost anything - from The Lord of the Rings to Report on Business - but their understanding is limited by what they know of the larger world. At this age, kids' actual taste in reading is often determined by their peer group. Favourites include series novels like Goosebumps or The Babysitters Club, young adult fiction like Some of the Kinder Planets by Tim Wynne-Jones, non-fiction and magazines on topics of interest like Nintendo Power or Seventeen

Bolded is what she would have had a huge problem with. Her development stopped at age 11. We simply don't know what she knew of the larger world. I've known some 11 year olds that truly still believe in Santa Claus - however I don't think this was the case with Jaycee.

I also agree with the poster that talked about the "variety" of books we saw in that bookcase. With her limited knowledge of the "world" and where her development stopped (age 11) she could have comprehended those books in a variety of ways.

I find it both helpful and hopeful that her reading ability is on an adult level as she then could have taught her girls how to read. But reading isn't everything - mathematical ability, logical thinking, critical thinking, and, most importantly her "reasoning ability" was stunted and we just don't know yet how that was progressed (if at all) by her captors.

She is obviously suffering from Stockholm Syndrome which would also affect all the other skills I just mentioned above. She has a long way to go but after seeing her stepfather on GR tonight and how he described her, I am very hopeful she can overcome this and find her way back, along with being there for her children so they can, as well, successfully enter society.
 
BBM. How does having a clean driving record negate the fact she kidnapped a child, and did god knows what, since 1991? What an idiotic comment he made.
Well, he can say it to the media -- once -- because it won't cut bait in court with a jury. Waste of breath.
 
SWAG1959, I am so comforted by your explanation. You are a true professional spending your time with this age group. Just the fact that you believe it is possible for this little family to catch up somewhat enough to re-integrate with society is very hopeful. I was very worried this was an impossibility. Your words plus knowing that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has studied and published materials for the agencies, plus the fact of their using a multi-professional team already while protecting and secluding them is more hope and steps in the right direction that we have had prior to tonight.
 
I can't believe that they would be offered a trial? why?

I would like to think we've advanced far enough to know what 'does not' merit a trial, jury or more then anything 'more pain for the victims'.

This is one case that there is no doubt imo who did what and what was done. After LE completes their investigation and has all the evidence and any other crimes which may be linked to him as well as statements/interviews with Jaycee and her daughters... imo opinion it should given to a judge who passes the verdict.. that's it, done! DP or let them rot in prison, no parole ever, no appeals, nothing.

And definately no communication with the outside. jmo I think it's time some laws protect the victims from having to relive this, which takes time away from their healing, moving on and just steals more time... I think these creeps stole enough years from Jaycee.
 
I can't believe that they would be offered a trial? why?

I would like to think we've advanced far enough to know what 'does not' merit a trial, jury or more then anything 'more pain for the victims'.

This is one case that there is no doubt imo who did what and what was done. After LE completes their investigation and has all the evidence and any other crimes which may be linked to him as well as statements/interviews with Jaycee and her daughters... imo opinion it should given to a judge who passes the verdict.. that's it, done! DP or let them rot in prison, no parole ever, no appeals, nothing.

And definately no communication with the outside. jmo I think it's time some laws protect the victims from having to relive this, which takes time away from their healing, moving on and just steals more time... I think these creeps stole enough years from Jaycee.


All criminal defendants are "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." All criminal defendants have a US Constitutional right to a trial by a jury of their peers.
 
California does not have the death penalty. They overturned that years ago. Charles Manson was given the death penalty and it was then remanded to life in prison when California did away with the DP. I am just furious that this happened in CA and not in FL as we still do have the DP and just excuted a a few weeks ago.

So any hope for the DP is gone. It simply doesn't exist there.
 
California does not have the death penalty. They overturned that years ago. Charles Manson was given the death penalty and it was then remanded to life in prison when California did away with the DP. I am just furious that this happened in CA and not in FL as we still do have the DP and just excuted a a few weeks ago.

So any hope for the DP is gone. It simply doesn't exist there.
California does have the death penalty. I can see why you were confused. Here's part of the history.

February 18, 1972
California Supreme Court declares the death penalty cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the state constitution. 107 inmates are taken off death row and resentenced. (Manson was one of them.) A similar decision is rendered in 1976 and 68 inmates are resentenced.



August 11, 1977
Legislature re-enacts the death penalty. Under the new statute, evidence in mitigation is permitted. The death penalty is reinstated as a possible punishment for first degree murder under certain conditions. These "special circumstances" include: murder for financial gain, murder by a person previously convicted of murder, murder of multiple victims, murder with torture, murder of a peace officer, murder of a witness to prevent testimony and several other murders under particular circumstances.



1977
In 1977, the Penal Code was revised to include the sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. At that time, the punishment for kidnapping for ransom, extortion, or robbery was changed from death to life without parole. Treason, train derailing or wrecking, and securing the death of an innocent person through perjury became punishable by death or life imprisonment without parole.



November 7, 1978
Voters approve a broader death penalty law that replaces the 1977 statute.



April 21, 1992
California resumes executions with the execution of Robert Alton Harris.



August 27, 1992
Lethal injection is added as a method of execution. Inmates may now choose between injection and lethal gas.



August 24, 1993
David Mason is executed after he forfeited his appeals.



October 4, 1994
Gas chamber is ruled cruel and unusual punishment and therefore unconstitutional. Lethal injection is now sole the method of execution.
 
California does have the death penalty. I can see why you were confused. Here's part of the history.

February 18, 1972
California Supreme Court declares the death penalty cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the state constitution. 107 inmates are taken off death row and resentenced. (Manson was one of them.) A similar decision is rendered in 1976 and 68 inmates are resentenced.



August 11, 1977
Legislature re-enacts the death penalty. Under the new statute, evidence in mitigation is permitted. The death penalty is reinstated as a possible punishment for first degree murder under certain conditions. These "special circumstances" include: murder for financial gain, murder by a person previously convicted of murder, murder of multiple victims, murder with torture, murder of a peace officer, murder of a witness to prevent testimony and several other murders under particular circumstances.



1977
In 1977, the Penal Code was revised to include the sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. At that time, the punishment for kidnapping for ransom, extortion, or robbery was changed from death to life without parole. Treason, train derailing or wrecking, and securing the death of an innocent person through perjury became punishable by death or life imprisonment without parole.



November 7, 1978
Voters approve a broader death penalty law that replaces the 1977 statute.



April 21, 1992
California resumes executions with the execution of Robert Alton Harris.



August 27, 1992
Lethal injection is added as a method of execution. Inmates may now choose between injection and lethal gas.



August 24, 1993
David Mason is executed after he forfeited his appeals.



October 4, 1994
Gas chamber is ruled cruel and unusual punishment and therefore unconstitutional. Lethal injection is now sole the method of execution.
Thank you. I stand corrected as I did not know they had reinstated it. According to your research (and post) though this case - kidnapping is not a DP crime.

Maybe that is why LE is very intent on finding evidence of murder with this "thing" - so they can get the DP. Lord I hope so!!!!

I also agree that maybe there is evidence of "other - male" children. Or the two 4 year olds that were mentioned by the neighbor.

Plus, I read that the neighbor whose house is now roped off has only lived there for about 3 years or so. So it is possible that this "thing" used that yard as a burial ground while the house was sitting empty. (Lord that hurt to type)
 
Maybe. Perhaps the two four year old girls the neighbor's girlfriend told the media she saw.

Oh God bless her sweet soul if she happened to birth twins in those conditions.

It is bad enough that she had to live there or have any children there.


This story just gets crazier by the minute.
 
Tonight, Geraldo did an interview with Carl Probyn. As an introduction, Geraldo played an interview with Carl and Terry Probyn that he did in 1993. At that time Carl and Terry recount the same details that we've come to know about the day that Jaycee was kidnapped - how Carl chased after the car on his mountain bike and his description of the car and the woman who grabbed Jaycee.

This 16-year-old interview provides a lot of insight into the family. At that time, Geraldo asked about the stress on the couple and Terry says that the stress can tear them apart and they're working on trying to maintain a normal family life for their then 2 and a half-year-old. Terry is a beautiful woman, and Jaycee looks so much like her.

Carl says that he hasn't spoken to Jaycee yet, but Terry told him that Jaycee is a wonderful mother. He says Jaycee is very fragile, and Terry is taking it minute by minute.

Carl spoke about the stresses he and his wife, Terry, endured. It was very difficult for Terry when birthdays came, and she was unable to celebrate Christmas. It was difficult on both of them.

Carl says that neighbors of the Garrido family had a barbecue a while back and PG came and brought the two young girls. After a while the two girls returned home, and after the girls left, PG started making advances on some of the teens at the barbecue. He was finally asked to leave.

Later in the program Geraldo had two neighbors on the program who had attended the barbecue.

Former governor Mike Huckabee was a guest on the program briefly, and he wanted to shake Carl's hand and extend his good wishes to the family on the recovery of Jaycee.

Carl said that Jaycee bonded with PG and it hurts (he's obviously upset). He says he thinks PG was arrogant enough to think he could get away with it when he walked into the parole officer's office with his wife, Jaycee, and the two girls and explain it away.
 
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