CA CA - Jeff Joseph, 45, Hoopa, 21 June 2014

[burblestein]

You make sense, NorCal. I have been wondering how Jeff was cultivating on Yurok land.

APN locations are the official ones; they've been surveyed.

 

[somequestions]

I do not believe with any of my being that jeff went off the road. too coincidental. no one ( his friends ) looked for him because , perhaps they knew what happened to him.. not one call from them, not one fb post, not one search of the roads.... he had a lot of cash on him and a crop worth alot of money... yes. someone got rid of his car. no clue if we will ever know... who knows? maybe it's on private property.

I really value family members input on a case. Since I did not know Jeff Joseph it is hard to determine what happened. Even my comment about the brakes, the first thing I thought was that it has been nearly 3 years and by now someone would have found the car. I hope police checked at least hair pin turn areas around the roads where he disappeared. I am guessing they did an aerial search and determined he probably did not go off the road.

His phone calls would be the next logical clue. Most people call before they arrive at a meeting that is a distance away since they do not know exactly when they will arrive. So if someone took him they probably got rid of the cell phone quick too. Cases like this you really have to try and fit all the pieces together to see what makes the most sense. Hopefully his case will be solved this year.

 

[Lilibet]

NorCal, are you able to give me a link so that I can see more of the parcel map than your photo shows. I've tried to find it myself and I must be doing something wrong.

It would be interesting to determine the actual parcel Jeff rented on the satellite view, if that's even possible. I see a very large cleared area, actually four areas next to each other, that appear to be uphill from Jeff, with marijuana growing on them. I can't tell if they are within his property or just outside. Other than these cleared areas, I don't see any place near the pin for Jeff's rented property that's clear enough to grow on. I wonder if the cleared areas I'm seeing are grown on by Jeff or even several different parties, but owned by someone else or are perhaps public lands. The property with the house rented by Jeff could be "base camp" where the trimming is done, but the actual growing could be elsewhere. This is very common.

The link below shows the pins for Jeff's property and the cleared areas I'm seeing that appear to have marijuana growing. I see what appears to be a motor home and some other small shelters, which would typically house people tending and guarding the grows.

Again, this is just my curiosity kicking in and none of this helps find out what happened to Jeff, unless there were others involved in these cleared growing areas besides Jeff's partners. If the cleared areas were being used by other parties too, that would widen the list of suspicious people who might have wanted Jeff gone and covered up his disappearance. In addition, Burblestein accurately described the type of ruthless people who are growing alongside the good guys like Jeff. They wouldn't be shy about violently taking over someone else's grow using guns. In this scenario, his partners could have been intimidated into silence by these people disappearing Jeff. Just throwing out ideas to see if anything sticks.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4....7"W/@41.2846567,-123.76612,18z/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[Peaceofmind]

Oh man.... this is horrific.... i've thought about that but, if there were other people that scared jeff's friends in to silence, what are they scared of now? This is not a serial killer... right? Jeff's friends are long gone from the area, no one is going to come looking for them out of state, are they? I'm really naive, i know... i'm just not a big crime follower or wasn't.....

i asked Norcal to respond.

NorCal, are you able to give me a link so that I can see more of the parcel map than your photo shows. I've tried to find it myself and I must be doing something wrong.

It would be interesting to determine the actual parcel Jeff rented on the satellite view, if that's even possible. I see a very large cleared area, actually four areas next to each other, that appear to be uphill from Jeff, with marijuana growing on them. I can't tell if they are within his property or just outside. Other than these cleared areas, I don't see any place near the pin for Jeff's rented property that's clear enough to grow on. I wonder if the cleared areas I'm seeing are grown on by Jeff or even several different parties, but owned by someone else or are perhaps public lands. The property with the house rented by Jeff could be "base camp" where the trimming is done, but the actual growing could be elsewhere. This is very common.

The link below shows the pins for Jeff's property and the cleared areas I'm seeing that appear to have marijuana growing. I see what appears to be a motor home and some other small shelters, which would typically house people tending and guarding the grows.

Again, this is just my curiosity kicking in and none of this helps find out what happened to Jeff, unless there were others involved in these cleared growing areas besides Jeff's partners. If the cleared areas were being used by other parties too, that would widen the list of suspicious people who might have wanted Jeff gone and covered up his disappearance. In addition, Burblestein accurately described the type of ruthless people who are growing alongside the good guys like Jeff. They wouldn't be shy about violently taking over someone else's grow using guns. In this scenario, his partners could have been intimidated into silence by these people disappearing Jeff. Just throwing out ideas to see if anything sticks.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4....7"W/@41.2846567,-123.76612,18z/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[Peaceofmind]

we have really tried to fit all of the pieces together but, a few different theories fit. what we don't know is if he ever made it to his property or not. we have seen phone records, the problem is, if he texted from an iPhone to an iPhone, those don't show up on the records and the lack of reception up there makes it very difficult to call to confirm a meeting but, jeff's gf has always insisted jeff would have called and been anxious for this meeting... he obviously had reception because he made 2 calls. even if we put the most logical pieces together, we have no evidence...just what we think happened...really, really sucks. I'm relieved our mom died right before this because this would have killed her. literally. he was her boy.......... sooooooooo sooooooooo sad....

I really value family members input on a case. Since I did not know Jeff Joseph it is hard to determine what happened. Even my comment about the brakes, the first thing I thought was that it has been nearly 3 years and by now someone would have found the car. I hope police checked at least hair pin turn areas around the roads where he disappeared. I am guessing they did an aerial search and determined he probably did not go off the road.

His phone calls would be the next logical clue. Most people call before they arrive at a meeting that is a distance away since they do not know exactly when they will arrive. So if someone took him they probably got rid of the cell phone quick too. Cases like this you really have to try and fit all the pieces together to see what makes the most sense. Hopefully his case will be solved this year.

 

[Peaceofmind]

thank you btw for those google earth links. I bookmarked and hope I can learn how to use it like you guys!

 

[Peaceofmind]

In your opinion, why do you think they aren't tearing apart his phone records? or following the money trail? anyone??

I really value family members input on a case. Since I did not know Jeff Joseph it is hard to determine what happened. Even my comment about the brakes, the first thing I thought was that it has been nearly 3 years and by now someone would have found the car. I hope police checked at least hair pin turn areas around the roads where he disappeared. I am guessing they did an aerial search and determined he probably did not go off the road.

His phone calls would be the next logical clue. Most people call before they arrive at a meeting that is a distance away since they do not know exactly when they will arrive. So if someone took him they probably got rid of the cell phone quick too. Cases like this you really have to try and fit all the pieces together to see what makes the most sense. Hopefully his case will be solved this year.

 

[NorCalAdvocate]

NorCal, are you able to give me a link so that I can see more of the parcel map than your photo shows. I've tried to find it myself and I must be doing something wrong.

It would be interesting to determine the actual parcel Jeff rented on the satellite view, if that's even possible. I see a very large cleared area, actually four areas next to each other, that appear to be uphill from Jeff, with marijuana growing on them. I can't tell if they are within his property or just outside. Other than these cleared areas, I don't see any place near the pin for Jeff's rented property that's clear enough to grow on. I wonder if the cleared areas I'm seeing are grown on by Jeff or even several different parties, but owned by someone else or are perhaps public lands. The property with the house rented by Jeff could be "base camp" where the trimming is done, but the actual growing could be elsewhere. This is very common.

The link below shows the pins for Jeff's property and the cleared areas I'm seeing that appear to have marijuana growing. I see what appears to be a motor home and some other small shelters, which would typically house people tending and guarding the grows.

Again, this is just my curiosity kicking in and none of this helps find out what happened to Jeff, unless there were others involved in these cleared growing areas besides Jeff's partners. If the cleared areas were being used by other parties too, that would widen the list of suspicious people who might have wanted Jeff gone and covered up his disappearance. In addition, Burblestein accurately described the type of ruthless people who are growing alongside the good guys like Jeff. They wouldn't be shy about violently taking over someone else's grow using guns. In this scenario, his partners could have been intimidated into silence by these people disappearing Jeff. Just throwing out ideas to see if anything sticks.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4....7"W/@41.2846567,-123.76612,18z/data=!3m1!1e3

Here is a map showing the parcel lines for both parcels. I did the best I could get it to zoomed in. It was super sensitive. I have also included a map I made previously, showing one of the houses is actually on the parcel line of the 2 properties. Hopefully this helps as well for understanding and visual purposes!

 

[Lilibet]

Here is a map showing the parcel lines for both parcels. I did the best I could get it to zoomed in. It was super sensitive. I have also included a map I made previously, showing one of the houses is actually on the parcel line of the 2 properties. Hopefully this helps as well for understanding and visual purposes!

Thanks SO much, NorCal, for humoring my curiosity! This clearly shows that the cleared growing areas I saw are on another piece of land, not particularly close. Looking around the property Jeff rented, there are several areas that appear to have or have had greenhouses, if it was the same in 2014. The "house" on the property line may be a greenhouse also, or even an indoor grow house, since it has numerous roof vents. How interesting that it straddles the border of the property owned by the person Jeff rented from. That could cause a dispute, although I imagine that detail was addressed when Jeff rented the property.

So it appears to me that Jeff's operation was not a large outdoor grow, but a less obvious grow using greenhouses and possibly (although less likely) indoor grow houses.

I'm curious how many years Jeff had been growing on this property. How did he meet the property owner and his partners? How long had he known them? I believe he had known the partners for some years. Did he start growing here before he moved to Louisiana? Do we know why he moved? Does it have any bearing on his disappearance?

This article from 2014 talks about the shift from indoor grows to greenhouses, a much more economical method of growing. It could be he was doing both.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/19/5618624/weed-greenhouses-popularity-increase

The link below describes greenhouse growing in detail. There are methods that can yield two or even three harvests during the growing season. This made me wonder if they were harvesting a crop when Jeff was there in June. It's more likely that he was just there to see how things were going though.

I do wonder who transported the final product to wherever it went, and where its destination was (commercial or medicinal sales, for example). There are opportunities for betrayal at any point in the growing, harvesting, drying, trimming, transportation and sale processes. Hiring the wrong people can be deadly, as the recently solved murder in Mendocino county posted by burblestein shows. Had any new people joined "the team?"

http://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/growing-marijuana-greenhouse/

Here the searchable link to Jeff's property as shown in the photo you attached. His parcel number is 534-195-011-000. It allowed me to look at other properties and see relationships. As you mentioned, it doesn't zoom in well, so I bounced back and forth to Google maps to get a better view.

http://webgis.co.humboldt.ca.us/HCEGIS2.0m/

The pin on google maps is on or near the bright white greenhouse or growhouse on the property line.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4..."W/@41.2802784,-123.7612607,18z/data=!3m1!1e3

I post all this information and ask questions trying to get a sense of what Jeff was doing and how he was going about it. We probably won't get closer to learning what happened to Jeff, but it doesn't hurt to know as much as possible to put the pieces together. But one thing we do know is that Jeff was in a very dangerous business and not everyone makes it out alive, no matter how careful they are.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hi, I'm new to this thread and just did a post but lost it . Happens to me all the time so I will post then edit to ask some 'money' questions.
Google tells me that in 2010, 1 acre can support 10, 000 plants and gave a revenue of $3.25 million. In 2015 that would have been $19 million. Jeff rented 80 acres, so just a few acres would have been immensely profitable. Did Jeff have business accounts? Did someone covet the land if these figures are accurate? Could someone check these figures for accuracy because it seems incredible. Did he or his relatives receive his share of the harvests in the last few years?

 

[Lilibet]

In your opinion, why do you think they aren't tearing apart his phone records? or following the money trail? anyone??

Have you asked LE about phone records and the money trail? Or the PI you hired? It takes search warrants for phone and bank records I believe, and there has to be reasonable cause presented to a judge to get search warrants. It's possible this was done and reached a dead end due to poor phone reception and only using cash. Or it's possible there wasn't quite enough evidence for search warrants. I would ask LE and the PI about it. Let us know what you find out.

 

[burblestein]

I mentioned the need for a financial audit in Post #130. This is possible even in a cash economy situation. A diligent investigator can compile records of expenditures to prove that they grossly exceed a suspect's personal wealth and reported income. Basically, you need a persistent cop with forensic accounting background.

Might I add that the original forensic audit was by the IRS against a "gentleman" named Alphonse Capone? And sent him to prison? It may seem like dirty pool to sic the taxman on suspects, but any info thus gained can be mined for evidence concerning Jeff.

 

[Lilibet]

Oh man.... this is horrific.... i've thought about that but, if there were other people that scared jeff's friends in to silence, what are they scared of now? This is not a serial killer... right? Jeff's friends are long gone from the area, no one is going to come looking for them out of state, are they? I'm really naive, i know... i'm just not a big crime follower or wasn't.....

i asked Norcal to respond.

I'm sorry to present this scenario, but to me it explains the silence of Jeff's two partner/friends more than suspecting them of killing him. Quite honestly, if Jeff's friends know what happened and were threatened into silence, their fear wouldn't end once they left the area unless they kept silent. If they go talk to LE and there are arrests and trials, they would have to testify. If these people are individuals with ties to a cartel or other group, Jeff's friends would have reason to be afraid if they come forward. But without condoning their silence, I could understand being afraid no matter who was involved. That's why cases in Humboldt so often stay unsolved.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Hi, I'm new to this thread and just did a post but lost it . Happens to me all the time so I will post then edit to ask some 'money' questions.
Google tells me that in 2010, 1 acre can support 10, 000 plants and gave a revenue of $3.25 million. In 2015 that would have been $19 million. Jeff rented 80 acres, so just a few acres would have been immensely profitable. Did Jeff have business accounts? Did someone covet the land if these figures are accurate? Could someone check these figures for accuracy because it seems incredible. Did he or his relatives receive his share of the harvests in the last few years?

Welcome! According to this 2010 article, your figures are correct. It's probably the same article you found. Yes, it would have been immensely profitable, whether he grew in a greenhouse or indoors or outdoors. Rather than coveting the land itself, I imagine that the plants and the cash involved in that crop was the motive. Peaceofmind said he was carrying cash.

http://theweedbusiness.com/mass-producing-marijuana/

But according to this March 2014 article in the Eureka, CA Times Standard, prices have gone down 40% since 2010 because more people are growing. This article also addresses the effect of the drought on supplies and prices. So Jeff's profit might have gone down and dividing a smaller amount up could be a motive. I can't imagine Jeff's family receiving any proceeds in the years since his disappearance.

Perry said a pound of indoor marijuana cost about $3,500 in 2010, and the same amount of outdoor grown marijuana cost about $2,500. He said an indoor pound now costs about $2,200 and outdoor costs about $1,100.
"Marijuana prices have gone down almost 40 percent in the last couple of years because supplies are so high," Perry said. "In the last four years, the amount of people growing has at least doubled."

http://www.times-standard.com/article/zz/20140323/NEWS/140329314

I'd be interested to know how long Jeff had been growing on this land and how the profits were split. I can't imagine that he had business accounts. Banks are on legal thin ice with marijuana money, so it's a cash industry, although that may be loosening up if laws are passed.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/22/colorado-marijuana-banking-system-stalls-senate-house/

 

[burblestein]

While working as a permanent part-time employee of the Census Bureau, I recall finding a private road network. I drove in through an open gate. When I found the house I was supposed to survey, the residents were already waiting for me though I had not notified them I was coming. Seems there was a CB radio/walkie-talkie network that reported any unknown vehicles on the private roads. After departing the area, I drove back clocking the odometer distance back to the gate so I could annotate my map. The gate was now closed. I never saw anyone except the residents of my survey house.

Obviously, CBs and walkie-talkies won't show up on phone records. However, I find myself wondering if there is a CB base station near Weitchpec. Anyone know how to check?

 

[NorCalAdvocate]

While working as a permanent part-time employee of the Census Bureau, I recall finding a private road network. I drove in through an open gate. When I found the house I was supposed to survey, the residents were already waiting for me though I had not notified them I was coming. Seems there was a CB radio/walkie-talkie network that reported any unknown vehicles on the private roads. After departing the area, I drove back clocking the odometer distance back to the gate so I could annotate my map. The gate was now closed. I never saw anyone except the residents of my survey house.

Obviously, CBs and walkie-talkies won't show up on phone records. However, I find myself wondering if there is a CB base station near Weitchpec. Anyone know how to check?

I can look into CB base Stations as well. I do know other than the towers there are Antennas used to help with cellphone coverage, I found them when i was researching the towers in the area. What area were you working in where the survey house was located?

 

[burblestein]

Mendocino County...and I am not inclined to say more specifically. I did pledge the Bureau confidentiality.

If you do find a Base Station, we need a CBer to monitor it to see if it is a grower network.

 

[NorCalAdvocate]

Mendocino County...and I am not inclined to say more specifically. I did pledge the Bureau confidentiality.

If you do find a Base Station, we need a CBer to monitor it to see if it is a grower network.

Thanks burblestein! I was not expecting any fine details :secret: As far as I can tell so far there is no lists of CB radios stations, not to say there isn't any. But I suspect that it most likely just a network of privately owned CB Radio bases in peoples homes & vehicles. I also wouldn't rule out the use of privately owned handheld walkie talkies etc. in use as well.

 

[Peaceofmind]

are you at liberty to say if this was near jeff's property?

 

[Lilibet]

are you at liberty to say if this was near jeff's property?

If you're asking about burblestein working on the census, that was in Mendocino county, bordering Humboldt county to the south. So it wasn't near Jeff's property. Sorry if I'm answering the wrong question. If you click on "reply with quote" when you refer to someone's post, it will show that post so we know who you're talking to.

Peaceofmind, do you still have the PI (Get Bit) working on Jeff's case pro bono? You mentioned on FB that he had started helping you last June. Can you say if he found out anything new? Thanks.