CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[Tortoise]

Would you ever expect to see a criminal profiler giving evidence in a trial to try to explain to the jury the significance of elements of the crime?

For example things we know -

1. (if the sledgehammer was in the house already) - killer must have known that because he didn't bring his own weapon so he was very familiar with house.
2. no signs of break in and no signs they were killed while sleeping - killer was let in by the family so they were comfortable with him.
3. dogs comfortable with killer and he wasn't afraid of them either (unlike the animal welfare lady) - dogs didn't bark and he put down food for them.
4. adults were killed up close by a blow so they didn't escape or think they needed to.
5. method of murder shows a personal dynamic - not a clean professional hit.
6. staging - not leaving their bodies there - burying the bodies - moving the Trooper - cleaning up blood - taking the phones - shows the killer's personal connection AND dedication to spend so much time wrapping/crating bodies, digging graves, cleaning, going back for the Trooper.
7. being in and out of the house so quickly with four people to kill with no screaming or 911 calls, dogs to handle and phones and keys to organise, showing it was planned and not a sudden rage.

8. The killer parked in their driveway also showing he was known to the family.

 

[missy1974]

Just replying to a post in the previous thread. They did test the back of CM’s truck and it showed it had been bleached. Who the frig does that?

Suspected beach was also found on SM’s trousers in the groin area, potentially to get rid of evidence of rape. I suspect it was issued liberally at the house too. JMO.

That is not how I recall that testimony. There was a white 'flash', which is an indication of a false positive. Here is the testimony for anyone that would like to listen to it, at 1:20 he expains what the flash means.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

Just replying to a post in the previous thread. They did test the back of CM’s truck and it showed it had been bleached. Who the frig does that?

Suspected beach was also found on SM’s trousers in the groin area, potentially to get rid of evidence of rape. I suspect it was issued liberally at the house too. JMO.

This is not true. They tested it, but because it is metal, they could not tell what might be lighting up from blood vs. what was lighting up due to it being metal.

 

[missy1974]

This is not true. They tested it, but because it is metal, they could not tell what might be lighting up from blood vs. what was lighting up due to it being metal.

Since you take such good notes... do you recall this? I was listening to part of Dugal's testimony yesterday, and in regards to that light they found in the house.... Maline asked Dugal if he knew that UV lights are used for purification of the water in the water fountains. Of course Dugal didn't know that. But thought it was interesting ;-) Dugal's testimony is so long lol I don't want to have to go looking for it haha

 

[itsbrookie]

This is not true. They tested it, but because it is metal, they could not tell what might be lighting up from blood vs. what was lighting up due to it being metal.

Thank you for clarifying this for everyone. It is a shame that specific substances couldn't be conclusively detected because if there was bleach in the truck it would've tied the (potentially bleach) stain on Summer's track pants directly to Chase.

 

[Tortoise]

Since you take such good notes... do you recall this? I was listening to part of Dugal's testimony yesterday, and in regards to that light they found in the house.... Maline asked Dugal if he knew that UV lights are used for purification of the water in the water fountains. Of course Dugal didn't know that. But thought it was interesting ;-) Dugal's testimony is so long lol I don't want to have to go looking for it haha

Did the McStays own a fountain?

 

[MichaelCorleone]

That is not how I recall that testimony. There was a white 'flash', which is an indication of a false positive. Here is the testimony for anyone that would like to listen to it, at 1:20 he expains what the flash means.

So what am I remembering? I definitely recall a guy who explained it was metal so you couldn’t tell. I know I do. I really don’t want to go listen to everything trying to find it and it’s not in my notebook. Eek.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

Since you take such good notes... do you recall this? I was listening to part of Dugal's testimony yesterday, and in regards to that light they found in the house.... Maline asked Dugal if he knew that UV lights are used for purification of the water in the water fountains. Of course Dugal didn't know that. But thought it was interesting ;-) Dugal's testimony is so long lol I don't want to have to go looking for it haha

Yes I remember it. It’s not in my notes because I have fewer of the cross notes than the direct, but I definitely remember it because I wondered why on earth the fountain water would be purified and I also thought about fish tanks and that I’ve never used one with them.

 

[missy1974]

So what am I remembering? I definitely recall a guy who explained it was metal so you couldn’t tell. I know I do. I really don’t want to go listen to everything trying to find it and it’s not in my notebook. Eek.

it's in that testimony somewhere... when I opened that youtube page, it was at the spot it was explaining it was a false positive, but you are not wrong, it's in there

 

[missy1974]

Yes I remember it. It’s not in my notes because I have fewer of the cross notes than the direct, but I definitely remember it because I wondered why on earth the fountain water would be purified and I also thought about fish tanks and that I’ve never used one with them.

Sometimes I learn way more on the cross than direct, but I have notes for both sides haha Just looked at my one Word document... I have 59 pages typed, then I have other docs with other notes.... I would die of hand cramps if I was ever a juror LOL I expect the same when the defense presents their case, I will pay attention to what the prosecution asks on cross, all the stuff the defense doesn't want us to know ;-)

I don't know if I missed some of Dugal's testimony, but I didn't recall hearing that before yesterday. I'm not sure how the water features worked, if they just ran the same water, I could see why it would need to stay clean. Thinking just now... didn't McG say something about Joey and Chase looking at some lights one of the days he was there?

 

[MichaelCorleone]

it's in that testimony somewhere... when I opened that youtube page, it was at the spot it was explaining it was a false positive, but you are not wrong, it's in there

Thank you! Sometimes I stop with the notes because it is so time consuming to keep stopping the video and writing, writing, writing and then starting it back up only to stop it again and write like a fool. Sometimes I think, “I will just remember this part.” I should never think that I will remember anything, lol.

 

[missy1974]

Thank you! Sometimes I stop with the notes because it is so time consuming to keep stopping the video and writing, writing, writing and then starting it back up only to stop it again and write like a fool. Sometimes I think, “I will just remember this part.” I should never think that I will remember anything, lol.

There has been a lot to remember! Took me a bit to remember who testified about that and then find the right day lol I do work sometimes... so some days are not as clear as others ;-)

 

[Mony Mony]

Just replying to a post in the previous thread. They did test the back of CM’s truck and it showed it had been bleached. Who the frig does that?

Suspected beach was also found on SM’s trousers in the groin area, potentially to get rid of evidence of rape. I suspect it was issued liberally at the house too. JMO.

I think she was raped, too. I listened again to the defense's open in statement. He mentions "teams" buried the family. I am starting to lean towards this being correct. The "team" was siblings. And one of the siblings raped Summer. Uggg.

 

[missy1974]

41:40 of this video, McG said in a statement that Joey and Chase were looking at "LED lights"

 

[Mica]

Since you take such good notes... do you recall this? I was listening to part of Dugal's testimony yesterday, and in regards to that light they found in the house.... Maline asked Dugal if he knew that UV lights are used for purification of the water in the water fountains. Of course Dugal didn't know that. But thought it was interesting ;-) Dugal's testimony is so long lol I don't want to have to go looking for it haha

I know a black light flashlight is also used as a pet urine detector. This didn’t come up in testimony but it could be another reason it was found in the home. JMO. My daughter has one for her dogs. Summer had a puppy and a new home.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

41:40 of this video, McG said in a statement that Joey and Chase were looking at "LED lights"

Okay but that has nothing to do with that black light thing on the counter, if that’s what he was trying to imply. I guess I didn’t think that was all that important because it is nowhere in my notes. Either that or I had writer’s cramp at that point.

 

[Mony Mony]

Sometimes I learn way more on the cross than direct, but I have notes for both sides haha Just looked at my one Word document... I have 59 pages typed, then I have other docs with other notes.... I would die of hand cramps if I was ever a juror LOL I expect the same when the defense presents their case, I will pay attention to what the prosecution asks on cross, all the stuff the defense doesn't want us to know ;-)

I don't know if I missed some of Dugal's testimony, but I didn't recall hearing that before yesterday. I'm not sure how the water features worked, if they just ran the same water, I could see why it would need to stay clean. Thinking just now... didn't McG say something about Joey and Chase looking at some lights one of the days he was there?

I recall hearing that testimony. I dont usually watch the testomony, just listen to it. I wondered if it was a handheld flashlight or whether it was a specialty fountain/aquarium light fixture. I think someone mentioned it was a hand held flashlight. Makes no sense they would use that to purify the water in a fountain.

 

[missy1974]

Okay but that has nothing to do with that black light thing on the counter, if that’s what he was trying to imply. I guess I didn’t think that was all that important because it is nowhere in my notes. Either that or I had writer’s cramp at that point.

I wish either side would have asked him if he recalled what they looked like, I think when I heard it I was imagining a string of lights ... or the LED lights that are in a plastic tube?lol (thinking xmas lights type things)

 

[missy1974]

I recall hearing that testimony. I dont usually watch the testomony, just listen to it. I wondered if it was a handheld flashlight or whether it was a specialty fountain/aquarium light fixture. I think someone mentioned it was a hand held flashlight. Makes no sense they would use that to purify the water in a fountain.

Do you recall who said it was handheld? I don't doubt you, I had only heard that bit about the water purification yesterday, not sure if I missed it before, or just missed that little bit when he was testifying. I had thought Dugal had said it was similar to something he or LE would have? My actual first thought was that the defense was saying or going to say it was one of the LE officers lights lol

Mica makes the point that they had a puppy and people get them for pet urine detectors... I recall that being discussed threads ago... I've had puppies all my life, never knew that

 

[citygirl]

Good morning.
Many thanks to all of you that take good notes. Very time consuming, I'm sure. I always think I will remember. LOL.