CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

[smr]

I've watched Kenny Baden stand up and praise despicable people, like Casey Anthony and Phil Spector.

Read this article about Linda Kenney Baden, and tell me what you think about her professional ethics.

True Crime: Phil Spector's Real Defense Attorney Weighs in on HBO Movie Los Angeles Magazine


True Crime: Phil Spector’s Real Defense Attorney Weighs in on HBO Movie

What for. The L&C commentaries on the McStay case make sense to me. Yes they make money from their programs, but saying CM is guilty or praising the PT would not make less money than what they are saying now.

 

[missy1974]

So therefore in her recent testimony at trial you are accusing SB of perjuring herself? Accusing her of inconsistent statements over the years.

I don't have to accuse her of anything, the defense did when they showed her the transcript of her statements to Hanke. Regardless of what she said after the fact or what she says now, she did not deny that that is what she said and that is what the transcript of her interview said. It is what it is. IMO

 

[missy1974]

The testimony speaks for itself and missy gave an accurate description of it, IMO. Who said anything about perjury?

The defense judge did say that they could call LE (in this case Hanke) for impeachment purposes. I'm not sure if they will or won't and Hanke will be back on the stand tomorrow morning. I guess we will see tomorrow if they address it or not. I don't think it's necessary, I think they showed what they needed to show, but that's JMO.

ETA: changed the defense to judge..

 

[missy1974]

Another answer to Cathy's earlier tweet about the jury... I'm personally surprised by the answers... but whatever, I think trying to read a jury is not easy and since we don't know what it is like on a daily basis there, it's hard to get a read with 1 or 2 tweets a month about them lol JMO

Aaron Keller‏ @AKellerLawCrime
Replying to @cathyrusson @KenneyBaden @RBianchiEsq
I have seen prosecutors win weak cases by sitting juries who fold to the "authority" wielded by the state. "Well, they have all these people looking into things; surely they are correct" is the attitude. It is incorrect legally, but it happens. 1/2

Aaron Keller‏ @AKellerLawCrime
Replying to @AKellerLawCrime @cathyrusson and
Furthermore, some juries see any attempt by the defense to put on a case as merely an attempt to "make an excuse," "evade punishment," etc. Hopefully this jury applies the burden of proof properly and realizes that the defense does not *need* to prove someone else did it. 2/2

And another lawyer's opinion...

Koribanics_Law‏ @mkoribanics
Replying to @RBianchiEsq @cathyrusson and
I agree with Bobby “ read em and weep” Bianchi. I would read laughter with such serious charges as good sign for the defense.

 

[smr]

Update on McGee saw GP on Tues, GP ordered more tests to rule out some things, may return on Tuesday.

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 1m1 minute ago
#McStay - Maline tells the judge that he's doing the best he can with McGee out. He doesn't want the jury to blame him for the delays. McGee had asked for the trial to be continued in his absence. Maline says these were McGee's witnesses and he's doing what he can.

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 27s27 seconds ago
#McGee - Update on defense attorney James McGee health, his doctor wants to run some more test. He might be able to return on Tuesday, but unknown at this time.

Thank you both for the update on McGee. Hope no serious health problem for him. Really like to see his presence in the court.

If there is another trial at least Chase will still be rotting away in a cell without any chance of freedom. That’s the only place he belongs and long may it continue.

While the real killers of the family of 4 will continue to enjoy free life with little worry that justice may be coming after them.

Who cares where CM belongs? All I care is to bring the real murderers to justice.

 

[Karinna]

I don't have to accuse her of anything, the defense did when they showed her the transcript of her statements to Hanke. Regardless of what she said after the fact or what she says now, she did not deny that that is what she said and that is what the transcript of her interview said. It is what it is. IMO

Maybe i'm not being clear. And yes, she did deny that at trial by stating that Det. Hanke must of misunderstood her, and that she denied that his statement was correct, so that is a denial from her IMO.
She is effectively stating that her statement never changed at all, and she knew that her son Joey was wanting to get rid of Merritt from his business.
That's how i see it anyway. In other words her statement of it was never different to what she told the investigation, and why would it be? I believe her.

 

[Force Ten]

Another answer to Cathy's earlier tweet about the jury... I'm personally surprised by the answers... but whatever, I think trying to read a jury is not easy and since we don't know what it is like on a daily basis there, it's hard to get a read with 1 or 2 tweets a month about them lol JMO

Aaron Keller‏ @AKellerLawCrime
Replying to @cathyrusson @KenneyBaden @RBianchiEsq
I have seen prosecutors win weak cases by sitting juries who fold to the "authority" wielded by the state. "Well, they have all these people looking into things; surely they are correct" is the attitude. It is incorrect legally, but it happens. 1/2

Aaron Keller‏ @AKellerLawCrime
Replying to @AKellerLawCrime @cathyrusson and
Furthermore, some juries see any attempt by the defense to put on a case as merely an attempt to "make an excuse," "evade punishment," etc. Hopefully this jury applies the burden of proof properly and realizes that the defense does not *need* to prove someone else did it. 2/2

And another lawyer's opinion...

Koribanics_Law‏ @mkoribanics
Replying to @RBianchiEsq @cathyrusson and
I agree with Bobby “ read em and weep” Bianchi. I would read laughter with such serious charges as good sign for the defense.

And they, as lawyers, should know that it's difficult to read a jury and know their decision.

 

[missy1974]

Maybe i'm not being clear. And yes, she did deny that at trial by stating that Det. Hanke must of misunderstood her, and that she denied that his statement was correct, so that is a denial from her IMO.
She is effectively stating that her statement never changed at all, and she knew that her son Joey was wanting to get rid of Merritt from his business.
That's how i see it anyway. In other words her statement of it was never different to what she told the investigation, and why would it be? I believe her.

Sorry Karinna, I disagree about what was said. And I don't understand how a transcript of an interview could be misunderstood, it wasn't a report that Maline was using to 'refresh' her recollection.

 

[missy1974]

And they, as lawyers, should know that it's difficult to read a jury and know their decision.

Well, especially when it's one day out of how many... lol

 

[Karinna]

Sorry Karinna, I disagree about what was said. And I don't understand how a transcript of an interview could be misunderstood, it wasn't a report that Maline was using to 'refresh' her recollection.

Sure, no problem and it doesn't alter my stance either,

 

[Niner]

They've gone to another 30 minute recess. I just don't get it, they had 2 hours to prepare for Sgt Steers to ask him about the awning in the Mitchley video. Now they're not ready for the next officer. [/b]

So - the only witnesses - that I caught in all the posts - was Stutchman & Henke - correct? Not this Sgt. Steers too?

TIA!

You guys will have to start posting "who" is on the stand for me! LOL!

 

[Niner]

Thursday, May 2nd:
*Trial continues (Day 49) (@ 9am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt aka Charles Ray Mandel aka Charles Ray Morritt aka Chase Meredith (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 7 women & 4 men & 1 ? (alternates include 4 men & 2 women-minus one).
Trial Days (1-45): (1/17/19 thru 4/25/19) reference post #853 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #17
4/29/19 Day 46: Jurors not yet present - discussing Dennis Shogren's (Forensic Accountant) report. State objects. Short break to check transcript on whether the defense laid a foundation for a Metro Sheet Metal statement of monies received. Maline says a foundation was laid with Carmen Garcia of MSM & prosecution says she was not shown it so no foundation was laid. Merritt's accountant says 2 payments were made. Result: Carmen Garcia was not shown the exhibit. Now they're looking at Sequeida's testimony. Foundation was not laid, court sustained the state's objection to the exhibit during Sequeida's testimony. Defense witness: Dennis Shogren (Forensic Accountant). Trial continues on 4/30.
4/30/19 Day 47: Juror #12 (woman) has been released. An alternate juror has been put in place. Defense witnesses: Dennis Shogren continues testimony. Gregg Stutchman, forensic analyst in video forensics (Mitchley video). Trial continues on 5/1.
5/1/19 Day 48: Defense witnesses: Gregg Stutchman. Det. Henke. Trial continues on 5/2.
Tentative Schedule for week of April 29th thru May 3rd: Court with jurors on April 29 (Monday), April 30 (Tuesday), May 1 (Wednesday) and May 2nd (Thursday). Dark on May 3rd (Friday).
Tentative Schedule for week of May 6th thru May 10th: May 6th (Monday)-NO court-Judge not available. Court with jurors on May 7th (Tuesday), May 8th (Wednesday). May 9th (Thursday)-NO court (for a juror). Dark on May 10th (Friday).
Tentative Scheduled for week of May 13th thru May 17th: Closing arguments now expected the week of May 13th.

 

[mrjitty]

Of course there's not much excitement about this revelation, because, after all it does show that Merritt, once again was telling the truth. Now if LE was unable to determine he was there, well, then it's time to celebrate.

It shows he was there on a completely different day

 

[mrjitty]

I never doubted that hew went paint balling with Joey as he said he did. But it is not a game changer.

Why is his waiver on a different date?

Again call me old fashioned but the date on these kinds of forms is prima facie proof of what day you signed it - so this would prove Chase was there on a different day to Joey

The rest about mistaken dates or blanket waivers is wild speculation not in evidence

Seems to add to the idea of manufactured version

 

[Karinna]

Why is his waiver on a different date?

Again call me old fashioned but the date on these kinds of forms is prima facie proof of what day you signed it - so this would prove Chase was there on a different day to Joey

The rest about mistaken dates or blanket waivers is wild speculation not in evidence

Seems to add to the idea of manufactured version

Yes he is a known Liar and deceiver, so not surprising at all that his fairytales don't add up IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

It seems to me inaccurate that LE did not investigate DK or discover documents - even according to the defence opening statements

We now know that multiple things were in fact discovered and exhibited - some of which we haven't seen. The state in EIC didn't go in to this issue other than testimony from the Sgt Smith that he put a team on it, who determined DK was in Hawaii. Subsequent defence witnesses revealed further state exhibits.

Here is a walk through of what I can remember.

1. In 2010 Dugal interviewed DK and sighted travel reservation (this may be exhibited). Dugal lacked probable cause to get search warrants on any suspect at this time.
2. After the bodies were found the state appear to have secured
   • DK's phone records
   • DKs bank records
   • Inquiries about actual flight itinerary (sworn affidavit)
   • Interview with landlord (sworn affidavit - Smith)
   • DK computer equipment seized (IIRC)
   • Witness - Riccobene - sworn statement.

So the idea that nothing was investigated or discovered certainly is not true.

Now presumably the State has waited for the defence to make all the running on this issue, before the state addresses it in rebuttal.

Especially to see if the defence call DK and/or Riccobene, IMO


.02c

 

[asyousay]

Thank you both for the update on McGee. Hope no serious health problem for him. Really like to see his presence in the court.



While the real killers of the family of 4 will continue to enjoy free life with little worry that justice may be coming after them.

Who cares where CM belongs? All I care is to bring the real murderers to justice.

I care where Chase is as he killed a family of 4. I have seen enough evidence to convince me he is guilty.


I want him to not see another day of freedom for the rest of his life.

 

[mrjitty]

I've watched Kenny Baden stand up and praise despicable people, like Casey Anthony and Phil Spector.

Read this article about Linda Kenney Baden, and tell me what you think about her professional ethics.

True Crime: Phil Spector's Real Defense Attorney Weighs in on HBO Movie Los Angeles Magazine


True Crime: Phil Spector’s Real Defense Attorney Weighs in on HBO Movie

I learned not to bother with most Attorney coverage on the Pistorius case

Various of them were interviewed for sound bites as the case progressed, or did Op Eds. They often give a good idea of overall tactics but usually they haven't followed the case closely and don't know the evidence. Especially they routinely misstate the law when firing from the hip on TV - this will come as no surprise to anyone who has juniored for a swinging dick attorney. As usual it would be us minions who had to find out what the law was and explain it to the partners. (this was why we were hired of course).

One trial attorney I worked for memorably barked at me "i'd rather make the law than read about it" which seemed rather dismissive of my efforts to help him win

There are exceptions. By far the outstanding Pistorius commentator was a South African criminal law professor who did some blogs for his classes. He was so amazing he was co-opted onto Nel's team for the appeal and his views were generally victorious in the Supreme Court.

Being an academic is no guarantee though - to other RSA academics published embarassingly wrong headed stuff.

Part of the problem here is there is no notoriety to be gained by siding with the state case. So a timely op ed with dodgy analysis can serve as a "for hire as consultant" letter to the defence

 

[katydid23]

Sorry Karinna, I disagree about what was said. And I don't understand how a transcript of an interview could be misunderstood, it wasn't a report that Maline was using to 'refresh' her recollection.

Is that the same stance you had when Chase's sister said her first interview transcript was mistaken? I thought you sided with her at the time?

How is this different ?

 

[katydid23]

What for. The L&C commentaries on the McStay case make sense to me. Yes they make money from their programs, but saying CM is guilty or praising the PT would not make less money than what they are saying now.

In the article I linked, about Kinney Baden, she proudly boasts about the HBO film, which FALSELY recreated the Phil Spector brutal murder. The director made a FALSE portrayal of the crime, and she admits it is not accurate, but it is a film that pretends to be the real story of that murder.

And people who have watched it now believe that Phil Spector is an innocent man. Is it fair for the defense attorney of a convicted murderer, to then be paid to do a FALSE REENACTMENT of the crime, to be shown to millions of people, in order to change the publics view of the verdict?