CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

[missy1974]

It seems like he is having trouble putting into the proper context of what he wants to address with Dan's transactions and other things. Typically lawyers are very clear in their wording and delivery. Perhaps it is because this is McGee's witness. I'm not faulting him for it but it came across as amateurish.

Not sure why you think it was McGee's witness? Maline cross examined the State's accountant, so I think this is his witness. Also because of the discussion they had on Thursday, I didn't get the impression that this was McGee's witness at all but JMO

As for his questions.. meh, Maline isn't my favourite lawyer, partially for that reason, lots of uhmm ahhh's... it's been like that throughout IMO Sometimes I just wanna smack him and say 'spit it out' LOL

 

[Force Ten]

Not sure why you think it was McGee's witness? Maline cross examined the State's accountant, so I think this is his witness. Also because of the discussion they had on Thursday, I didn't get the impression that this was McGee's witness at all but JMO

As for his questions.. meh, Maline isn't my favourite lawyer, partially for that reason, lots of uhmm ahhh's... it's been like that throughout IMO Sometimes I just wanna smack him and say 'spit it out' LOL

LOL right? Maybe it's his witness, but that's just my impression. I haven't watched his testimony yet. But Maline is court appointed right? I don't know how many cases he's tried so far so maybe that is why. I actually like McGee, that might cloud my judgement of Maline.

 

[Karinna]

Anyone know when the DT are going to rest their case, and how many more witnesses they plan on calling to the stand?
I thought i read upthread they plan on resting their case this week?

 

[missy1974]

LOL right? Maybe it's his witness, but that's just my impression. I haven't watched his testimony yet. But Maline is court appointed right? I don't know how many cases he's tried so far so maybe that is why. I actually like McGee, that might cloud my judgement of Maline.

Big difference between Maline and McGee! This guy seems so annoyed by the objections LOL


I don't believe he was court appointed, but this situation seems to be a bit unclear... Maline was part of the original legal team... then they withdrew or he fired them, I think he represented himself for a bit, but then wanted Maline back (interestingly enough, I do not think Maline was at the preliminary hearing, and after reading those proceedings, I would have fired the attorney's too.. they didn't ask any questions lol) I did find an article that said that the judge pretty much told Maline and McGee that they were in it for the long haul, which I think was dated 2016 sometime. I cannot see how Chase would be able to pay for them at all, so I think although they are not court appointed, they are being paid for by the State... possibly because of it being a death penalty case? I do recall a remark from McGee early in the trial that the pro's putting the death penalty on the table allowed them more "resources" for experts. Wish we could get that cleared up lol That and... if one or both of the lawyers are death penalty qualified.

I've been watching still... I'm in Part 3... I think some of the questions or exhibits were hindered by the lighting issue they had today. I don't think Maline was able to see the big screen very well, andddd he seems a bit technically challenged LOL

 

[Karinna]

Big difference between Maline and McGee! This guy seems so annoyed by the objections LOL


I don't believe he was court appointed, but this situation seems to be a bit unclear... Maline was part of the original legal team... then they withdrew or he fired them, I think he represented himself for a bit, but then wanted Maline back (interestingly enough, I do not think Maline was at the preliminary hearing, and after reading those proceedings, I would have fired the attorney's too.. they didn't ask any questions lol) I did find an article that said that the judge pretty much told Maline and McGee that they were in it for the long haul, which I think was dated 2016 sometime. I cannot see how Chase would be able to pay for them at all, so I think although they are not court appointed, they are being paid for by the State... possibly because of it being a death penalty case? I do recall a remark from McGee early in the trial that the pro's putting the death penalty on the table allowed them more "resources" for experts. Wish we could get that cleared up lol That and... if one or both of the lawyers are death penalty qualified.

I've been watching still... I'm in Part 3... I think some of the questions or exhibits were hindered by the lighting issue they had today. I don't think Maline was able to see the big screen very well, andddd he seems a bit technically challenged LOL

From what i have read about Merritt he was indigent when he went to prison, so there's no way he could of afforded his own defense. I think because it is a death penalty case he got some choice in attorney's to represent himself, but if the case wasn't DP he would of got a public defender and no choice in who his defense attorney was.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
While Merritt's alleged health issues were not specified in court Friday, Ponce said in November that Merritt had been diagnosed with congestive heart failure and was being treated by jail doctors.

In response to Merritt's request, San Bernardino Superior Court Judge Michael Smith warned that it was an unwise decision and advised Merritt that the court would appoint him an attorney at no cost. Merritt declined.

Even after Judge Smith went on to describe the disadvantages of Merritt's decision, the defendant stuck with it.

The judge then questioned Merritt about his education and background and in response, Merritt said he graduated high school and went to college for two years. He said that prior to his arrest, he worked as a designer and sold products to manufacturers. Merritt also said he has never represented himself in court before.
Merritt will be appointed advisory and standby counsel that he can use at his discretion.
McStay murder suspect will represent himself

 

[mrjitty]

It's quite obvious DK was rifling funds from EIP, ruining the reputation JM had worked so hard to build. Once DK ruins the reputation he then illegally sells the business to an unsuspecting buyer. DK is a snake and IMO capable of any and all misdeeds including murder. Yet it's CM being charged and railroaded, the jury will see through this scheme, it's too transparent not to. I really can't see why there are so many on this thread supporting a ******* like DK.

BIB

I presume this is at least partly aimed at me and as I don't like to be misrepresented, i thought i'd reinforce a couple of points.

Firstly, I agreed from the outset that DK (and Chase) wasted no time getting their hands in Joey's money after he went missing.

But as you might recall, I pointed out some legal reasons why hot take conclusions about theft and illegal sale of the business might not be correct.

Theft under US law needs the requisite criminal intent. In particular there must be the intent to permanently deprive the owner of their property. So the defence is always going to be that the actions, though perhaps a misuse of company funds, were not criminal if the intent was to "save the business". And of course burden of proof is on the state in any criminal action. So a lot would depend on facts we simply don't have. e.g what was done with the money?

Second, acts involving a fraudulent component (i.e forging Joey's signature) are more obviously criminal than acts involving misrepresentation (e.g. conning Joey's mum), or misuse. This is a single shiny reason why CM is much more in the frame for stealing from Joey.

So my own opinion is a criminal prosecution against DK would likely be quite difficult - especially given the unclear legal situation between Joey and DK. The more obvious recourse is the civil one, to account for sale proceeds.

I don't really see how that is "supporting DK"

 

[mrjitty]

Yesterday was a pure bottom feeder moment from highly unscrupulous counsel IMO

I do not believe for one second that Maline "couldn't remember" if he put this key evidence to Carmen from MSM

This was a blatant attempt yet again to allow Chase to de facto testify to something without taking the stand

Maybe Maline should just get it over with and lead testimony on Chase's behalf.

Oh wait - he already does that

So he wrote four cheques and deleted them at 12.39 then he calls and leaves a message ten minutes later – ‘Hey it’s done’.

It is simply basic, Evidence 300 stuff, but only the accused can lead the evidence of what he said to Joey, and what Joey said to Chase, and what Chase did with cheques etc etc, except to the extent those things are proven by other circumstantial evidence.

 

[mrjitty]

It's been fascinating to read the defence opening thanks to @Tortoise but now at the end of the trial.

I felt at the time McGee gushed over his team, but said nothing much about the innocence of his client, or his client's alibi.

My suspicion is now confirmed that this has been a huge game of misdirection where expensive experts deliver a conspiracy for the defendant, who is so dishonest and hopelessly compromised that he cannot take the stand.

But yesterday's slime ball move surely demonstrated how little they have got.

The only point of the forensic accountant is to try to spin the BS that chase himself cannot get up and say.

 

[mrjitty]

$31,000.00 so far!!! Holy sheet!

Now the documentary question. Lol

This is simply stunning. And it doesn't even include the last year - e.g. trial appearance.

 

[mrjitty]

It seems like he is having trouble putting into the proper context of what he wants to address with Dan's transactions and other things. Typically lawyers are very clear in their wording and delivery. Perhaps it is because this is McGee's witness. I'm not faulting him for it but it came across as amateurish.

I think he isn't a very incisive interviewer

He uses too many words instead of just letting the witness speak - its common for Alpha-red types

 

[Plumeria5]

Could someone give me some Clif Notes on what bas been testified to about DK's alibi and proof he was in Hawaii? Do we know where he is currently? I assume he didn't testify?

 

[asyousay]

We haven’t been told where Dan is as he isn’t testifying so I don’t think it matters?!

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, April 30th:
*Trial continues (Day 47) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt aka Charles Ray Mandel aka Charles Ray Morritt aka Chase Meredith (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 8 women & 4 men (alternates include 4 men & 2 women).
Trial Days (1-45): (1/17/19 thru 4/25/19) reference post #853 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #17
4/29/19 Day 46: Jurors not yet present - discussing Dennis Shogren's (Forensic Accountant) report. State objects. Short break to check transcript on whether the defense laid a foundation for a Metro Sheet Metal statement of monies received. Maline says a foundation was laid with Carmen Garcia of MSM & prosecution says she was not shown it so no foundation was laid. Merritt's accountant says 2 payments were made. Result: Carmen Garcia was not shown the exhibit. Now they're looking at Sequeida's testimony. Foundation was not laid, court sustained the state's objection to the exhibit during Sequeida's testimony.
Defense witness: Dennis Shogren (Forensic Accountant). Trial continues on 4/30.
Tentative Schedule for week of April 29th thru May 3rd: Court with jurors on April 29 (Monday), April 30 (Tuesday), May 1 (Wednesday) and May 2nd (Thursday). Dark on May 3rd (Friday).

 

[mrjitty]

So waded through the EIC of forensic accountant guy but it didn't really tell us much we don't already know

What I found most interesting is that he confirmed Chase had been paid the 19500 on Provecho (so why did Maline try and get the opposite testimony from CJ?)

The forensic accountant tried to give the opinion that the job had been completed and Chase paid up 100% but there was "off book" claims by the clients

But we know Joey had not been paid the final payment and the deposit payment had been clawed back.

So in a round about way the defence was trying to say Chase might owe Joey the money later depending on what happened with the claim.

Doesn't seem to sit so well with Joey's email however and I am not sure how that opinion is anything more than wild speculation

The key thing we know is Joey paid Chase 19K on Provecho and viewed it as an overpayment to Chase.

What we don't know is when Chase would have to pay that back.

No one can know that except Joey & Chase

 

[Karinna]

According to Joey's email on Feb. 1st. to CM, Merritt owed JM
$15,045, (overpaid)
PLUS $8,800. (Levine)
PLUS $19,000. (Provecho)
Total $42,845.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/joey-email-png.175778/

 

[Karinna]

So waded through the EIC of forensic accountant guy but it didn't really tell us much we don't already know

What I found most interesting is that he confirmed Chase had been paid the 19500 on Provecho (so why did Maline try and get the opposite testimony from CJ?)

The forensic accountant tried to give the opinion that the job had been completed and Chase paid up 100% but there was "off book" claims by the clients

But we know Joey had not been paid the final payment and the deposit payment had been clawed back.

So in a round about way the defence was trying to say Chase might owe Joey the money later depending on what happened with the claim.

Doesn't seem to sit so well with Joey's email however and I am not sure how that opinion is anything more than wild speculation

The key thing we know is Joey paid Chase 19K on Provecho and viewed it as an overpayment to Chase.

What we don't know is when Chase would have to pay that back.

No one can know that except Joey & Chase

BBM, And that could well of been the catalyst for the murders. Especially if there was an argument/altercation between JM & CM about that, and if Merritt was demanding more money from Joey and Joey said No.

 

[mrjitty]

According to Joey's email on Feb. 1st. to CM, Merritt owed JM
$15,045, (overpaid)
PLUS $8,800. (Levine)
PLUS $19,000. (Provecho)
Total $42,845.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/joey-email-png.175778/

yeah so the defence argument is that Chase owed nothing.

The $15,045 is just timing according to Forensic man - in that Chase has been paid whacks of cash for production, but presumably Joey does not have the final payments yet - but once a year is closed off, this will zero out for the financial year. There is some logic to this

The provecho evidence was rather self serving IMO

 

[mrjitty]

BBM, And that could well of been the catalyst for the murders. Especially if there was an argument/altercation between JM & CM about that, and if Merritt was demanding more money from Joey and Joey said No.

I think it is no coincidence that Chase forged his first cheque after receiving that email.

it's possible Joey intended to use the cashflow of the Saudi & Mitchell deals to pay down Chase's debts

 

[asyousay]

According to Joey's email on Feb. 1st. to CM, Merritt owed JM
$15,045, (overpaid)
PLUS $8,800. (Levine)
PLUS $19,000. (Provecho)
Total $42,845.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/joey-email-png.175778/

This is why Chase arguing that Joey gave him permission to write out cheques is a complete and utter lie.


Nobody would give somebody that kind of leverage when they owe them so much money and that’s before we even get to the fact Chase had been in jail for theft.