CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[mrjitty]

So i have been doing a lot of background reading about the case via the material helpfully shared

For me the key to keep in mind is "the theory of the case"

Police start with case theories.

A drug deal gone wrong
A trip to Mexico gone wrong
JM killed the family
CM did it
etc

Then they hunt for evidence. As evidence is gathered, they will tend to accumulate evidence in one direction, and not find evidence for other theories.

This is key to the early phase. DuGal suspected murder, but he kept finding "Mexico" evidence. The more you don't find evidence of foul play close to home, the harder it is to sustain the theory.

Then the bodies are found, and this changes everything. Mexico is out. The trooper at the border is a misdirection. Quadruple homicide opens the door wider to probable cause for warrants.

An obvious theory of the case, is they were killed by someone who knew them. That's a small candidate list really.

So you start looking for evidence and it all starts going in one direction

This is why the DK theory by the defence is pure smoke and mirrors. Of course the guy was investigated in the forensic phase.

With what @Texas Red has said about the cell tower evidence, i tend to agree that the defence case is going to hinge on death by 1000 cuts

I don't think they will land any major blows - but maybe the can muddy the waters just enough.

it's interesting that the defence opening doesn't strongly claim that CM is innocent

rather they seem to say he was just the "too obvious guy" who did it.

maybe this case is just too obvious

 

[mrjitty]

Wow - the trooper evidence is fascinating

especially the card with details relating to CM on it

 

[mrjitty]

It's an interesting point that if JM did change the QB password on the 4th, then that would explain why CM might jump on in the McStay computers - e.g. to change the pass back - especially if JM was still logged in at home.

 

[mrjitty]

So I am wondering if CM threw all the crap into the trooper as part of the misdirection

The car seats should be in the Dodge because Summer had the kids and went shopping. The fact that they are found in the Trooper is a again a key data point IMO.

Crime scene staging always reveals the hand of the perp.

If they were killed by random person or a Mexican drug cartel, why bother with the charade?

The only reason to do all this is if they were murdered by someone close to them.

 

[Tortoise]

Wow - the trooper evidence is fascinating

especially the card with details relating to CM on it

I haven't caught up on all the videos yet. What was this? I'm intrigued

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Morning everyone.

I couldnt ever be a juror on any criminal case in CA. It is such a disservice and so disrespectful to all of the jurors with having so much wasted down time. It's like sending them a message their time or daily lives dont matter.

Although this is the same state that ignores the time and great effort juries put in deciding certain individual defendants deserved the death penalty and then sees their hardwork they put in coming to the determination that they deserved death and all of that is ignored.

It's like this state doesn't think jurors also have lives and can just wait and wait.

This wouldnt ever happen in my state. All judges and attorneys on both sides are very mindful all jurors have valued lives of their own and know expediency is necessary so the jurors dont become burned out and aggravated by so much dark time.

During this case it already seems we have had more interruptions than actually fluid long days of testimony. They dont seem to know what a 15 minute break even means. Lol

Someone mentioned they haven't seen another case where the prosecution is accused of not advising the defense about the next few witnesses to be called. I have no idea which cases they have seen but many I have followed the defense accused the state of the very same thing.

I agree with the state that it's extremely hard to give a definitive witness list each day because the long cross examinations can completely change who may appear the next day.

I think the best thing the state can do is notify the defense at the end of the day by email. This is the only way to determine it for then they know how long it took for the last witness to be finished. Plus many times certain witnesses may can only be available on a certain date but couldn't testify due to another witness being on the stand longer than expected then the state has to scramble to find other witnesses to take their place.

The defense already has been given a complete witness list and as long as the case has taken to even come to trial they should already be fully prepared to cross all of those witnesses.

I find it very odd the defense seems to only be preparing at the midnight hour to cross examine each witness for the next day. I've never seen defense team who wasn't fully prepared by trial time

WTH have they been doing all of these many years? By now they should fully know this case like the back of their hand and what all state witnesses are going to testify to.

Imoo

 

[Tortoise]

I agree Ocean, they want to know when the cell expert is going to be called so they can book tickets for their own cell expert, but it's them that is dragging out the cross-examinations and objecting to witnesses testifying, making a timetable impossible. They know who the witnesses are and they are behaving like children imo.

That protracted examination of Denys Williams was unnecessary imo (the parts I dipped into, I haven't watched the whole videos yet) and as a juror I would not look upon it favorably, it could have been far more concise and therefore it is wasting time and not respecting their intelligence or their willingness to sit and attentively listen to it. moo.

 

[dak dak girl]

DuGal testifies no car seats in the Dodge

Start at 9.17 in the video -

Thank you...I was sure I heard correctly

 

[ehenson88]

So I am wondering if CM threw all the crap into the trooper as part of the misdirection

The car seats should be in the Dodge because Summer had the kids and went shopping. The fact that they are found in the Trooper is a again a key data point IMO.

Crime scene staging always reveals the hand of the perp.

If they were killed by random person or a Mexican drug cartel, why bother with the charade?

The only reason to do all this is if they were murdered by someone close to them.

I did find it interesting that they only had one set of carseats and they weren't in the dodge.. For Joey to leave the house for several hours without the carseats, what if there was some kind of emergency or she wanted to run an errand?

 

[Tortoise]

I did find it interesting that they only had one set of carseats and they weren't in the dodge.. For Joey to leave the house for several hours without the carseats, what if there was some kind of emergency or she wanted to run an errand?

It doesn't mean they weren't originally in the Dodge though. They could have been moved to the truck that left the house and then to the Trooper before it was parked at the border. Summer and the boys could have been taken from the house alive to wherever Joey might have been waylaid and tied up with the Trooper, boys strapped into car seats to give a normal appearance to observers, all the while under duress.

speculation

 

[asyousay]

With the amount of days they seemingly have off and the amount of breaks they have daily as well how on earth can they have 184 names on the witness list?

We could be here this time next year as this rate

 

[mrjitty]

I haven't caught up on all the videos yet. What was this? I'm intrigued

At 40:52 approx

Notes on the back of an EIP card that appeared to have got lost in the trooper

Are these bank account numbers? Or phone numbers?

Hard to see why it would be phone numbers

My initial reaction is it could be notes from JM about the cheques

Or maybe it is notes from CM?

There is an note re Catherine. J

EDIT: I think these are bank account numbers

 

[mrjitty]

I did find it interesting that they only had one set of carseats and they weren't in the dodge.. For Joey to leave the house for several hours without the carseats, what if there was some kind of emergency or she wanted to run an errand?

They were in the dodge - that is the obvious inference from the fact that Summer went shopping.

Why would they be in the Trooper?

Who ever killed the family moved them into the dodge along with a whole lot of kids stuff, medicine etc

presumably this is supposed to look like a family trip

 

[mrjitty]

I'd be very interested to know whether the McStay house and vehicles were always so messy or whether that was done afterwards

 

[dak dak girl]

They were in the dodge - that is the obvious inference from the fact that Summer went shopping.

Why would they be in the Trooper?

Who ever killed the family moved them into the dodge along with a whole lot of kids stuff, medicine etc

presumably this is supposed to look like a family trip

They were actually in the Trooper not the Dodge as would be expected.

 

[asyousay]

The problem with the car seats being moved from car to car (if that did happen) again points to the children being alive and not dead when they left the house hence Chase changing over the seats.

Why would Chase care if the car seats were in the green dodge if the boys were dead and it again explains why no vehicles that we are aware of had blood splatter is because none of the victims were dead when they left the home.

IMO

 

[mothwings]

Can someone tell me how long this trial is supposed to last? I tried googling it. I heard a long time but how long is a long time?

 

[asyousay]

Can someone tell me how long this trial is supposed to last? I tried googling it. I heard a long time but how long is a long time?

Somebody said the other day 6 months. I think originally it was going to be about 4 months.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

With the amount of days they seemingly have off and the amount of breaks they have daily as well how on earth can they have 184 names on the witness list?

We could be here this time next year as this rate

The state will not call all 184 witnesses. They have just notified the defense they have 184 witnesses who are able and willing to testify.

They will decide on a day by basis who they are going to call and who they feel will not be necessary to be called as the trial goes along.

Some could be rebutal witnesses if the defense puts on their own CIC. Sometimes those can turnout to be very important witnesses for the state.

The state has no legal obligation to tell the defense as to which ones on their list will be called. All they have a legal obligation to do is make sure the defense has been given the full witness list before trial which they have.

I haven't seen anything thus far that would be an appellate issue for CM if he is convicted.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

The defense already has been given a complete witness list and as long as the case has taken to even come to trial they should already be fully prepared to cross all of those witnesses. I find it very odd the defense seems to only be preparing at the midnight hour to cross examine each witness for the next day. I've never seen defense team who wasn't fully prepared by trial time

WTH have they been doing all of these many years? By now they should fully know this case like the back of their hand and what all state witnesses are going to testify to.

BIB

Exactly.