CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[oceanblueeyes]

Actually I think the judge got this right.

The Detective explains that DK was ruled out as the killer, on the basis that he was not in the state.

He states this was verified by team members (personal knowledge)

That really ought to be the end of this wild speculation, but of course the defense is going to continue to gaslight us about it.

Good morning Mrjitty and everyone!

In many murder cases I've followed the defense targets someone else as the killer. So no one should be surprised they have selected DK in this one.

It's the old defense strategy of distraction! ' look over there at the one who isnt on trial and don't look at my client who is on trial!' Lol!

It's a red herring and unfortunately DK is the targeted fish in this one.

When the DT espoused in OS that DKs alibi of being in Hawaii had never been verified I knew that was bunch of bull. And now the truth is coming out. Of course the investigators verified his whereabouts. That's just common 101 investigative procedures in every investigation.

The evidence collected by the investigating team showed them he was in Hawaii during this time. They just didn't take his word for it

Knowing he wasn't involved they wouldn't have any reason to delve into his financial matters.

Although it may be revealed he cooperated and showed them anyway.

This is one reason I like to stay away from all the opinions,rumors, and prior discussions especially before they were even found and before it was declared a homicide case.
That way my own personal biases won't get in the way once the suspect is finally known and will be heading to trial.

It's hard to separate truth from fiction by that time for me anyway. So I try my best to stay away until trial time. That way I go in with fresh eyes wide open.

Since they found no involvement on DKs part he is an innocent individual ...even if he is disliked by some, when it comes to the murders of the McStay family.

They would have to have enough probable cause showing his possible involvement. They had none.

They commonly rule others out until they whittle it down to the one who is actually involved based on all of the evidence.

All of this happened after a very lengthy thorough investigation in this case. This certainly wasn't a rush to judgement case.

Some may not realize after a suspect is arrested the police continue to have an ongoing investigation. It never comes to a halt simply because the suspect has been arrested. So they not only had a lengthy investigation before the arrest, but years afterwards.

I saw a case one time where a judge allowed newly found evidence to come in because the state investigators had just uncovered it right in the middle of the trial.

In the Cesar Lauren murder case the lab results on the crowbar he had used to kill his girlfriend came back in 17 days before trial.

So many cases continue to be very fluid from the start all the way to trial time. So Det. Smith trying the vehicle key at this juncture isn't that uncommon.

Imo

 

[ehenson88]

the defense is pushing HARD that the murders did not occur until the morning of the 5th.

Why? Why do they need it to be the 5th and not the 4th?

Because IMO the prosecution has conclusive evidence Chase was in Fallbrook the night of the 4th. So far all we know is quick books and chases phone is off the grid. Do they have something else we don't know about yet?
If he was, he lied to investigators.

 

[mrjitty]

the defense is pushing HARD that the murders did not occur until the morning of the 5th.

Why? Why do they need it to be the 5th and not the 4th?

Because IMO the prosecution has conclusive evidence Chase was in Fallbrook the night of the 4th. So far all we know is quick books and chases phone is off the grid. Do they have something else we don't know about yet?
If he was, he lied to investigators.

They need it to be on the 5th in order to stand an alibi up

His alibi for the 4th collapsed

 

[Tortoise]

OK but then in this case you require a co-conspirator who will answer Chase's phone from close to his home base at 5.37, and then switch the phone off.

Say he hired a truck. He leaves his phone there 'accidentally' on purpose because he doesn't want it travelling in the same direction and at the same time as Joey's phone.

He calls his phone later and they answer it.

He arranges where he can pick it up from later, a front desk.

The person switches it off and puts it in a drawer, without being asked.

He returns to collect his phone at 9.30 pm and doesn't return the truck yet because it has the bodies in it.

 

[Tortoise]

Timeline from Opening Statement:

February

Thurs 4th

11.51 am Joey calls his bank.

11.53 am Joey calls Merritt.

11.56 am Joey signs into QuickBooks for 2 minutes.

12.15 pm Joey calls his bank – he’s on the road going north at Lake Elsinore.

12.52 pm Joey calls Merritt from the Rancho Cucamonga area.

12.52 pm to 1.01 pm Merritt calls Cathy Jarvis 9 times and makes 4 other calls.

1.00 pm Cathy Jarvis calls Merritt back.

1.01 pm Joey calls Merritt.

1.01 pm to 3.03 pm Joey’s phone is connected almost constantly to internet.

3.03 pm Joey’s phone leaves Rancho Cucamonga.

3.03 pm to 3.07 pm Joey calls Merritt 7 times.

5.48 pm Joey’s phone makes a 2 minute 37 second call to Merritt's phone from Fallbrook area.

5.50 pm (after the 5.48 call) Merritt’s phone goes off for 3 hours and 40 minutes.

6.09 pm to 9.04 pm Cathy Jarvis calls Merritt 5 times, all go to Voicemail.

7.47 pm Mitchley surveillance video.

7.56 pm QB accessed on home computer and cheque raised and deleted.

8.28 pm Joey's phone calls Merritt’s cell phone but doesn’t connect, call doesn't register on Merritt's phone. Could be a pocket dial.

9.32 pm Merritt’s phone connects tower at Mira Loma (14 miles south of Rancho) calls Cathy Jarvis.

9.32 pm Merritt’s phone goes off for 10 hours.


Fri 5th

7.30 am Merritt’s phone reconnects to grid.

Unknown time 4 cheques printed and deleted, all backdated to 4th.

3.54 pm to 9.17 pm Merritt’s phone is off grid for 5 hours 20 mins.

9.18 pm Merritt’s phone goes off grid again (not specified how long for)


Sat 6th

10.46 am to 1.30 pm Merritt’s phone is near gravesites for 2 hrs 45 mins. He makes calls from there.

It's raining in Victorville. (area of gravesites)


Mon 8th

7.26 am Merritt’s phone is in Rancho Cucamonga.

7.26 am to 1.31 pm Merritt’s phone off grid for 6 hours.

1.31 pm Merritt’s phone connects in Corona area travelling north.

1.54 pm to 6.31 pm Merritt’s phone is in Rancho Cucamonga.

2.20 pm QB accessed and cheque printed backdated to 4th. He deposits this on 9th.

[unknown time] Merritt makes a 1 hour 47 minute call to QB to get a new version and cancel old.

11 pm Trooper is towed in San Ysidro.


Tues 9th

[unknown time] Merritt calls QB to get all the information in the QB account deleted.

Merritt banks the backdated cheque he raised on the 8th.

Merritt contacts Susan Blake then goes to McStay house.

Merritt goes to Pala Casino for 8 hours, phone connected.

Withdraws $500 at the San Manuel Casino in Highland (25 miles east of home)

 

[mrjitty]

Say he hired a truck. He leaves his phone there 'accidentally' on purpose because he doesn't want it travelling in the same direction and at the same time as Joey's phone.

He calls his phone later and they answer it.

He arranges where he can pick it up from later, a front desk.

The person switches it off and puts it in a drawer, without being asked.

He returns to collect his phone at 9.30 pm and doesn't return the truck yet because it has the bodies in it.

I guess its possible but I feel like we are speculating things into existence

 

[BradB]

If prosecutions theory is the family was murdered in their home and there was no sign of blood or evidence inside the home, what does the prosecution do for closing?

Jurors will find him not guilty as of now.

 

[mrjitty]

If prosecutions theory is the family was murdered in their home and there was no sign of blood or evidence inside the home, what does the prosecution do for closing?

Jurors will find him not guilty as of now.

Just out of interest

Let's say one blood spatter was in fact discovered.

How does that change the case?

IMO it does nothing to further link CM to the crime

ETA - I am just throwing around a counterfactual here because I find the trial strategy fascinating

Personally I think the prosecution should be focussed on the narrative of identity. We know the murders happened. The question is who did it, not so much how.

 

[BradB]

Circumstantial evidence and connecting the dots is sometimes enough for jurors.

If there was blood found and evidence of bad things happening in home then you can start connecting the dots. Dots which include dna of his in that Trooper.

But you can’t connect the dots if you don’t have anywhere to start.

 

[mrjitty]

Circumstantial evidence and connecting the dots is sometimes enough for jurors.

If there was blood found and evidence of bad things happening in home then you can start connecting the dots. Dots which include dna of his in that Trooper.

But you can’t connect the dots if you don’t have anywhere to start.

I agree its important. Just interested in your view

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If prosecutions theory is the family was murdered in their home and there was no sign of blood or evidence inside the home, what does the prosecution do for closing?

Jurors will find him not guilty as of now.

Perhaps cite the case law showing what must be proven BARD and location of where it happened isnt a legal requirement that has to be proven.

The juror could believe he took them to China to murder them all if that is what they wish to believe.

All that legally matters is they unanimously believe indeed CM is the one who murdered all 4 no matter where, how, when or why it happened.

By your assertion no prosecutor could ever bring murder charges against anyone in a missing body murder case since they have no idea where the victim was murdered.

They connect the CE dots from the day they went missing and connect more CE dots throughout.

But they are brought to justice successfully because proving the location where it happened is not a legal burden the prosecutors even have to prove in the first place.

Of course like in all cases the prosecutor is allowed to put forth their own theory based on the totality of the evidence where the victim/s were murdered.

The juror may agree or disagree. They are allowed to have their own opinion where CM murdered them. One may think it was at the gravesite and 11 may think more evidence has been submitted showing it happened inside their home. They do not have to agree on location.

They are there to decide only if CM, the accused is guilty BARD of murdering all 4 no matter where it happened.

From the testimony I'm seeing they most assuredly are entering compelling evidence of his guilt and the pile is only going to get higher and higher.

They cant find him NG based on not believing the location the state has put forth. They would be remiss in their required duties to overburden the state with a burden they are not required to carry.

That would be as unfair as making the state prove motive when that is not legally required of them either.

I believe the jury will respect the case law concerning this case, and will apply it as written and will make their determination based on what the law states must proven and not on something they dont legally by law have to prove.

Imo

 

[BradB]

I hope so ocean. For the record I believe he’s guilty. But I can certainly see how a juror or some jurors wouldn’t come to the conclusion.

 

[Force Ten]

Wow - that must have been fascinating?

Are you a case insider?

No.

 

[oviedo]

I think the existence of the trooper key in Joey's pocket is significant

It is indeed a fair assumption there are 2 keys.

So the one in the pocket is the one he used that day.

That creates a strong evidence point Joey drove the trooper home, or he would not still have the key.

Chase must have used the other key - which he must have retrieved from the house ..

I do not believe I have read that they tested the key(s) in the pocket for fingerprints? Is that coming? And am assuming no blood either? I would think there would be some blood if they were in the pocket during the murder - and were wiped clean? JMO

 

[Force Ten]

This site says there was rain on the 6th in Victorville

precipitation 1.10 inches

And a little on the 7th

0.03 inches

Climate Victorville - California and Weather averages Victorville - Weather history february 2010

It surprised me that Ryan Smith did not state this much when asked if he knew that the family was buried before the 8th. It didn't rain again I believe until about 6-8 weeks later.

 

[Texas Red]

Good morning Mrjitty and everyone!

In many murder cases I've followed the defense targets someone else as the killer. So no one should be surprised they have selected DK in this one.

It's the old defense strategy of distraction! ' look over there at the one who isnt on trial and don't look at my client who is on trial!' Lol!

It's a red herring and unfortunately DK is the targeted fish in this one.

When the DT espoused in OS that DKs alibi of being in Hawaii had never been verified I knew that was bunch of bull. And now the truth is coming out. Of course the investigators verified his whereabouts. That's just common 101 investigative procedures in every investigation.

The evidence collected by the investigating team showed them he was in Hawaii during this time. They just didn't take his word for it

Knowing he wasn't involved they wouldn't have any reason to delve into his financial matters.

Although it may be revealed he cooperated and showed them anyway.

This is one reason I like to stay away from all the opinions,rumors, and prior discussions especially before they were even found and before it was declared a homicide case.
That way my own personal biases won't get in the way once the suspect is finally known and will be heading to trial.

It's hard to separate truth from fiction by that time for me anyway. So I try my best to stay away until trial time. That way I go in with fresh eyes wide open.

Since they found no involvement on DKs part he is an innocent individual ...even if he is disliked by some, when it comes to the murders of the McStay family.

They would have to have enough probable cause showing his possible involvement. They had none.

They commonly rule others out until they whittle it down to the one who is actually involved based on all of the evidence.

All of this happened after a very lengthy thorough investigation in this case. This certainly wasn't a rush to judgement case.

Some may not realize after a suspect is arrested the police continue to have an ongoing investigation. It never comes to a halt simply because the suspect has been arrested. So they not only had a lengthy investigation before the arrest, but years afterwards.

I saw a case one time where a judge allowed newly found evidence to come in because the state investigators had just uncovered it right in the middle of the trial.

In the Cesar Lauren murder case the lab results on the crowbar he had used to kill his girlfriend came back in 17 days before trial.

So many cases continue to be very fluid from the start all the way to trial time. So Det. Smith trying the vehicle key at this juncture isn't that uncommon.

Imo

You can’t blame the defense for pursuing the DK wasn’t in Hawaii strategy, after all it was the prosecution’s witness who stated the verification of the trip was supported by nothing more than an online ticket reservation. If the prosecution want’s to end the defense’s tactic, all they need to do is introduce direct evidence (not hearsay) explaining in detail how the verification was done. If they have such evidence you would think they would have presented it by now, before the jury starts believing it.

 

[Force Ten]

This was a notorious quadruple homicide case - of course DK has been dragged hard.

We've already seen DK bank records exhibited. DK has clearly cooperated with police, including interviews and documents

Actually, we've only seen Joseph's bank records to my recollection.

 

[cobalt sky]

Say he hired a truck. He leaves his phone there 'accidentally' on purpose because he doesn't want it travelling in the same direction and at the same time as Joey's phone.

He calls his phone later and they answer it.

He arranges where he can pick it up from later, a front desk.

The person switches it off and puts it in a drawer, without being asked.

He returns to collect his phone at 9.30 pm and doesn't return the truck yet because it has the bodies in it.

I suppose anything is possible, but it's odd that Merritt would be so savvy as to go to all that trouble to make sure his phone is not pinging along with Joey's on the ride to Fallbrook but then he is suddenly dim enough to take along his own phone to Victorville while he buries the bodies.

And SM & JM cell phones, SM purse, and JM wallet were never found iirc. The most reasonable explanation is because the killer wanted people to think that the family disappeared voluntarily and of course they would have taken their cell phones and purse/wallet. But then it's odd that those would not have been tossed in the graves with them as well. I wonder why those items were disposed of separately? Not that it would make a difference in this case, I'm just wondering aloud out of curiosity lol.

 

[cobalt sky]

You can’t blame the defense for pursuing the DK wasn’t in Hawaii strategy, after all it was the prosecution’s witness who stated the verification of the trip was supported by nothing more than an online ticket reservation. If the prosecution want’s to end the defense’s tactic, all they need to do is introduce direct evidence (not hearsay) explaining in detail how the verification was done. If they have such evidence you would think they would have presented it by now, before the jury starts believing it.

Exactly.

I find it very annoying that the Pros immediately object to every question related to DK. It makes it look like they have something to hide. If there is concrete evidence that DK was in Hawaii then why haven't we heard about it yet? And I mean I want evidence directly from the airline, or bank activity, hotel/lodging, not some e-receipt or something that DK could have easily faked or doctored. It doesn't matter that DK is not on trial, I'm confident that once the jury understands how ingrained DK was in the business, and that he benefited from JM's disappearance, they are going to want the same questions answered and the same proof that it would have been impossible for him to be either directly or indirectly involved. So far the Pros has not done that imo.

To be fair, I am somewhat selfish in wanting the DK situation cleared up because from the very beginning he has been my #1 suspect.

 

[cobalt sky]

Timeline from Opening Statement:

February

Thurs 4th

11.51 am Joey calls his bank.

11.53 am Joey calls Merritt.

11.56 am Joey signs into QuickBooks for 2 minutes.

12.15 pm Joey calls his bank – he’s on the road going north at Lake Elsinore.

12.52 pm Joey calls Merritt from the Rancho Cucamonga area.

12.52 pm to 1.01 pm Merritt calls Cathy Jarvis 9 times and makes 4 other calls.

1.00 pm Cathy Jarvis calls Merritt back.

1.01 pm Joey calls Merritt.

1.01 pm to 3.03 pm Joey’s phone is connected almost constantly to internet.

3.03 pm Joey’s phone leaves Rancho Cucamonga.

3.03 pm to 3.07 pm Joey calls Merritt 7 times.

5.48 pm Joey’s phone makes a 2 minute 37 second call to Merritt's phone from Fallbrook area.

5.50 pm (after the 5.48 call) Merritt’s phone goes off for 3 hours and 40 minutes.

6.09 pm to 9.04 pm Cathy Jarvis calls Merritt 5 times, all go to Voicemail.

7.47 pm Mitchley surveillance video.

7.56 pm QB accessed on home computer and cheque raised and deleted.

8.28 pm Joey's phone calls Merritt’s cell phone but doesn’t connect, call doesn't register on Merritt's phone. Could be a pocket dial.

9.32 pm Merritt’s phone connects tower at Mira Loma (14 miles south of Rancho) calls Cathy Jarvis.

9.32 pm Merritt’s phone goes off for 10 hours.


Fri 5th

7.30 am Merritt’s phone reconnects to grid.

Unknown time 4 cheques printed and deleted, all backdated to 4th.

3.54 pm to 9.17 pm Merritt’s phone is off grid for 5 hours 20 mins.

9.18 pm Merritt’s phone goes off grid again (not specified how long for)


Sat 6th

10.46 am to 1.30 pm Merritt’s phone is near gravesites for 2 hrs 45 mins. He makes calls from there.

It's raining in Victorville. (area of gravesites)


Mon 8th

7.26 am Merritt’s phone is in Rancho Cucamonga.

7.26 am to 1.31 pm Merritt’s phone off grid for 6 hours.

1.31 pm Merritt’s phone connects in Corona area travelling north.

1.54 pm to 6.31 pm Merritt’s phone is in Rancho Cucamonga.

2.20 pm QB accessed and cheque printed backdated to 4th. He deposits this on 9th.

[unknown time] Merritt makes a 1 hour 47 minute call to QB to get a new version and cancel old.

11 pm Trooper is towed in San Ysidro.


Tues 9th

[unknown time] Merritt calls QB to get all the information in the QB account deleted.

Merritt banks the backdated cheque he raised on the 8th.

Merritt contacts Susan Blake then goes to McStay house.

Merritt goes to Pala Casino for 8 hours, phone connected.

Withdraws $500 at the San Manuel Casino in Highland (25 miles east of home)

Thank you so much for this refresher!!

RSBM:
1.01 pm to 3.03 pm Joey’s phone is connected almost constantly to internet.

What exactly is the significance of this?