CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

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Then why doesn't the Pros just attack this right now? Show the evidence that DK was not involved, instead of constantly objecting and drawing MORE attention to it? Maybe they have their reasons, and it will all make sense later. I admit I'm not the most patient person.
The prosecution could be waiting until DK is on the stand and/or another detective can provide the proper testimony. It seems so far the defense has asked every single detective (excluding Smith?) if they verified DK being Hawaii. Imes was mocking the defense irrelevant questions when he asked Smith "Have you ever been to Hawaii?" The Pros isn't addressing it now because they aren't about to let the defense steer the direction of their trial. They have the burden of evidence.
 
I don’t think he removed the hands. Why leave Joey’s right one then?
It was discussed yesterday whether or not the hands were removed, I don't know if it's yet been determined one way or another.
 
I'm sorry I must have missed the documentary proof of flights? I remember someone testifying (DuGal?) that he was shown a flight reservation or something to that effect? A witness testifying that they believe DK was in Hawaii is not the same as irrefutable proof, something I haven't seen yet. But maybe I missed it? No, I'm not taking their word for it, the nurse in me wants to see DOCUMENTATION!!! :p

When you boil it down I don't believe they even need to provide documentation as to Dan's whereabouts. There hasn't been anything that connects him to the murders. Even if it was discovered that he lied he was in Hawaii. If anything, it would go against his credibility. If the jury knows he's lying about something, they (the jury) are allowed to throw out all of his testimony. Again, Dan isn't on trial. Did he skim money from the accounts? That's plausible, but for the most part those monies were approved by Mike and Susan, even though it wasn't their place to do so. IMO Dan did rip off several clients months and up to a year later. He's a shady character but not culpable.

Chase Merritt literally has his name all over these murders since day one, checks signed in blood.
 
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The prosecution could be waiting until DK is on the stand and/or another detective can provide the proper testimony. It seems so far the defense has asked every single detective (excluding Smith?) if they verified DK being Hawaii. Imes was mocking the defense irrelevant questions when he asked Smith "Have you ever been to Hawaii?" The Pros isn't addressing it now because they aren't about to let the defense steer the direction of their trial. They have the burden of evidence.

BIB

I wouldn't be surprised if they are holding some ammo back for that situation
 
Thank you so much for this refresher!!

RSBM:
1.01 pm to 3.03 pm Joey’s phone is connected almost constantly to internet.

What exactly is the significance of this?

Was it stated what sites were accessed by Joey’s phone for those two hours when they were supposedly having their lunch meeting?
 
BIB

I wouldn't be surprised if they are holding some ammo back for that situation

I hope so. It could be a smart strategy for the prosecution to allow the defense to harp on this DK accusation, over and over, all the while knowing they have solid proof they can reveal towards the end of the trial. That would be a powerful rebuff of the defense team and make them look silly.
 
Does the prosecution's evidence not have to be provided in disclosure before the trial starts?
 
I really feel you guys are going down the rabbit hole on this.

There is not one single piece of evidence that DK murdered the McStays

The Prosecution has already twice given evidence of how he was cleared.

1 x documentary evidence
1 x direct testimony explaining that detectives worked the angle and eliminated him

What more do you want?

The trial is regarding CM only. Even if the jury convicts CM it will be appealed and 50-50 chance of being overturned. Did the defendant murder this family? The pros. have the burden of proof. Next to the tragedy of this family's brutal murder, it would be another tragedy of convicting the wrong person. Where is the evidence? Yes CM could of murdered and buried the family. I have read so many false leads over the years I don't know how to call this one. I want justice for this family more than anything. I do not know any of the people involved and will pray everyday for this family. <modsnipped no link or source for information> Seeking the truth.
 
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According to DuGal those where stories started by P.I. Spring, who was ripping off Patrick McStay going on all his wild goose Mexico sightings. Bonsal bridge yielded nata

But Dugal was either mistaken or misspoke. Spring was hired by Mike Mcstay. Patrick had zero involvement in that.
 
Does the prosecution's evidence not have to be provided in disclosure before the trial starts?

Yes and no :D

The main tactical aspect is the prosecution has to call its witnesses first

But I should not be surprised if the state has a few tricks of its own to play in X
 
At 42:00 he is asked if he subpoenaed DK's bank records, he says no. Asked if he subpoenaed his Paypal records, he says no. It's shortly after this that he makes mention that they verified he was in Hawaii, but he did not do this himself. (the pro's keep objecting, it's annoying lol really... if it's been verified and they are okay with it, then just let the guy say it lol)


Off topic, is it me or does Smith resemble Fire Marshall Bill in this screen grab? LOL
 
OK but then in this case you require a co-conspirator who will answer Chase's phone from close to his home base at 5.37, and then switch the phone off.

No, because it's possible Chase didn't leave RC until he switched his phone off. He may have already killed JM, but didn't take the trooper and head down to finish off the family until that point. Chase had JM's phone, wallet, credit cards. He could've stopped to get gas on JM's card as additional alibi. What kills me is his ability to evade all cameras...border, gas station, Chik-fil-A, He couldn't know what footage existed or when it would be wiped because he didn't know how the case would proceed. Does anyone know if the investigators attempted to get footage from the gas station? I'm sure it was wiped. What about the signature on the gas station credit card? Was it forged?
 
This is how I feel. Everytime DK comes up, the State objects, which by law, it might the right call, etc. BUT if they are that confident about their verification of his trip to Hawaii, IMO they need to get it out there so it's in the juror's minds every time the Defense mentions his name so they can disregard what is being asked or said. JMO

This underhanded purposefully done tactics done by defense attorneys like these two in this case makes my blood boil!

ALL of it is an orchestrated plan to deceive and pull the wool over the eyes of the jury.

They did every objectionable question asked to set the trap for the state by confusing the jury into thinking the state had something to hide when it was not the case and they knew it.

The defense knew beforehand the improper questions were asked would receive objections and would be sustained every single time by the judge, rightfully so.

The state had no choice but to object to questions that were totally improper to ask. The defense already knew too the state had no choice but to do so.

In every murder trial it is imperative the state gets every objection into the trial record along with each ruling made by the judge in case there is a conviction which later will be automatically up for appeal. It is vitally important.

The once prosecutor now turned defense attorney in this case knows all too well what the state must get on the trial record and now he uses that prior knowledge to his advantage. He now uses it against the state he once worked for and he knows he would have done the very same thing.

DK and what he did or may have not done in the past has no relevancy in this case.

He is not the one accused and he isn't the one on trial and the judge is always very mindful of that fact.

Assumptions, bsseless accusations or out of context statements made by the defense aren't evidence of DKs involvement.

If the defense team actually had evidence proving it was DK and not their accused client, they would have produced that evidence to the governor of CA demanding CM be released.

They would have made it known to the press and anyone who would listen and do it way before trial time.

Yet they didn't because they know they dont have any evidence of DK being involved in any manner.

Its just like with Daron Wint's attorney who wound up having absolutely no evidence to back up their baseless claims it wasnt DW but his two brothers instead, but that didnt stop them from making unsupported claims hoping they could hoodwink the jury into believing it anyway which was an epic fail for them, and their guilty client. The jury refused to drink the koolaid.

I have seen many ethical respectable excellent defense attorneys but IMOO, these aren't two of them. In fact some of the best trial lawyers I've seen have been defense attorneys.

The Meritt attorneys are the kind of attorneys who will do every underhanded trick in their unethical handbook trying to get a quadruple murderer walking free on the streets again.

It's not about making sure CM gets a fair trial. To get a fair trial both sides must be treated fairly.

Imo its far more about their own notoriety and trying to put another notch of wins in their column.

They are hoping one juror will fall for their devious practices meant only to deceive.

It's far better spending more time in jail as CM has been willing to do for years now... than being shipped out to a maximum security prison and a possibility of being on death row if convicted.

So the defense would like nothing better than a hung jury.

So they will continue their orchestrated smoke and mirrors game of deception.

Imo
 
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No, because it's possible Chase didn't leave RC until he switched his phone off. He may have already killed JM, but didn't take the trooper and head down to finish off the family until that point. Chase had JM's phone, wallet, credit cards. He could've stopped to get gas on JM's card as additional alibi. What kills me is his ability to evade all cameras...border, gas station, Chik-fil-A, He couldn't know what footage existed or when it would be wiped because he didn't know how the case would proceed. Does anyone know if the investigators attempted to get footage from the gas station? I'm sure it was wiped. What about the signature on the gas station credit card? Was it forged?
I don't know of any gas station that requires a signature to use a card. Those pads are totally inaccurate anyways.

We don't yet know where Chase's phone was at the 5:47 call but it pinged a tower in Mira Loma and then he is travelling up the 15 freeway. To me it appears he had his phone with him the whole time.
 
This underhanded purposefully done tactics done by defense attorneys like these two in this case makes my blood boil!

ALL of it is an orchestrated plan to deceive and pull the wool over the eyes of the jury.

They did every objectionable question asked to set the trap for the state by confusing the jury into thinking the state had something to hide when it was not the case and they knew it.

The defense knew beforehand the improper questions were asked would receive objections and would be sustained every single time by the judge, rightfully so.

The state had no choice but to object to questions that were totally improper to ask. The defense already knew too the state had no choice but to do so.

In every murder trial it is imperative the state gets every objection into the trial record along with each ruling made by the judge in case there is a conviction which later will be automatically up for appeal. It is vitally important.

The once prosecutor now turned defense attorney in this case knows all too well what the state must get on the trial record and now he uses that prior knowledge to his advantage. He now uses it against the state he once worked for and he knows he would have done the very same thing.

DK and what he did or may have not done in the past has no relevancy in this case.

He is not the one accused and he isn't the one on trial and the judge is always very mindful of that fact.

Assumptions, bsseless accusations or out of context statements made by the defense aren't evidence of DKs involvement.

If the defense team actually had evidence proving it was DK and not their accused client, they would have produced that evidence to the governor of CA demanding CM be released.

They would have made it known to the press and anyone who would listen and do it way before trial time.

Yet they didn't because they know they dont have any evidence of DK being involved in any manner.

Its just like with Daron Wint's attorney who wound up having absolutely no evidence to back up their baseless claims it wasnt DW but his two brothers instead, but that didnt stop them from making unsupported claims hoping they could hoodwink the jury into believing it anyway which was an epic fail for them, and their guilty client. The jury refused to drink the koolaid.

I have seen many ethical respectable excellent defense attorneys but IMOO, these aren't two of them. In fact some of the best trial lawyers I've seen have been defense attorneys.

The Meritt attorneys are the kind of attorneys who will do every underhanded trick in their unethical handbook trying to get a quadruple murderer walking free on the streets again.

It's not about making sure CM gets a fair trial. To get a fair trial both sides must be treated fairly.

Imo its far more about their own notoriety and trying to put another notch of wins in their column.

They are hoping one juror will fall for their devious practices meant only to deceive.

It's far better spending more time in jail as CM has been willing to do for years now... than being shipped out to a maximum security prison and a possibility of being on death row if convicted.

So the defense would like nothing better than a hung jury.

So they will continue their orchestrated smoke and mirrors game of deception.

Imo


for the most part i consider criminal defense attorneys to be scummy--
they twist the truth and a lot of them just plain ol' lie to the jury
not all of them, but i just have no respect for most of them-
the worst example i can think of was Jose Baez in the Anthony
case-
 
I haven't watched it yet. Based on what I read hear today it was uneventful, other than she testified he was ripping Joseph off. She could have testified to so much more but I guess it would deemed hearsay.

I did just watch Detective Ryan's testimony and it was engrossing. I did actually email him my lengthy conversations with Kavanaugh and Jarvis so it was good to put a face to the name.

wait ... what? you had lengthy conversations with Kavanaugh and Jarvis???
 
No, because it's possible Chase didn't leave RC until he switched his phone off. He may have already killed JM, but didn't take the trooper and head down to finish off the family until that point. Chase had JM's phone, wallet, credit cards. He could've stopped to get gas on JM's card as additional alibi. What kills me is his ability to evade all cameras...border, gas station, Chik-fil-A, He couldn't know what footage existed or when it would be wiped because he didn't know how the case would proceed. Does anyone know if the investigators attempted to get footage from the gas station? I'm sure it was wiped. What about the signature on the gas station credit card? Was it forged?

There are no signatures on credit card gas purchases in most Cali stations. There are mostly gas pumps with automated ATMs that just take your card and pin number. Are we sure that Joey used a charge card and went inside the station?
 
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