CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

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Joey wrote "what you would potentially do", responding to the threat of zapping the website and destroying the family's source of income. Joey isn't referring to anything physical or anything that has yet happened so it's twisting the meaning to interpret it as witnessing anything physical.

When I said the kids may have seen some visible fights , it was not an interpretation of the sentence you quoted. I believe it's clear I said kids can't "know" someone is bad unless they see something visible.
 
Then the cord wrapped around his neck. If JM had changed his QB password that day, then maybe CM used the cord to get the new password.

Whoever murdered Joseoph. And my point was for CM to have tortured Joseph and barbarically murdered the family of four for possible financial gains is highly doubtful.
 
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Some of those testifying detectives are unbelievably incompetent. I may have missed it, but what was the evidence they cited?

To be fair this is not how procedural evidence works.

The first detective indicated he sighted documentary evidence.

The second detective indicated that detectives were put on that line of inquiry and reported back to him the findings. He testified as to what those findings were, in terms of explaining the overall conduct of the investigation.

This is sufficient evidence to create a prima facie presumption that DK was in Hawaii.

The onus is now on the defence to disturb that presumption with actual evidence of presence in California.

I agree the state could have gone further by admitting exhibits or presenting those witnesses. Indeed I presume they may well do so down the track.

And perhaps I missed it in opening arguments but I am yet to hear one single piece of evidence that DK was in Cali.
 
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I think it's a day off for the jury and the witness is going to be video-recorded and it will be livestreamed.

I think this evidence is key

Trying to delete the Quickbooks account is a further circumstantial point indicating CM knew Joey was not coming back.

Deleting QB could not hide the fraud from Joey. Only from investigators.

Indeed deleting QB if Joey was likely to come home any day would obviously land CM in a power of hot water.
 
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If CM knew or thought the family wasn't coming back, he's not the only one. Just because he may know--or sensed--that, it doesn't mean he was the one that killed them. I keep wondering whether all those people close to Joseph who were not involved in the murder do have a good idea in their mind who did it but have not told it.
 
smr, I've been thinking about friends who may have wondered about a supposed birthday party on Sat., Feb. 6th, at Chucky Cheese. Did it get canceled, did people show up? Surely good friends would call and ask, keep in touch. If one or more stopped by the house, was the Trooper gone? I'm hoping we will find out soon.
 
Whoever murdered Joseoph. And my point was for CM to have tortured Joseph and barbarically murdered the family of four for possible financial gains is highly doubtful.

I am interested as to what you say this

This kind of crime happens all the time.

Lovers or money!
 
I've seen little discussion about the possibility of a hit job. At the grave site only some unknown DNA was found. There is the possibility that someone trustworthy to the family was used to lure them somewhere, then they were abducted by hitmen, driven to the grave site, where the hitmen and the mastermind of the whole crime met. The two separate tire tracks could be one from the hired abductors, the other from the mastermind. The actual killing could be by either the hitmen or the mastermind.
 
Whoever murdered Joseoph. And my point was for CM to have tortured Joseph and barbarically murdered the family of four for possible financial gains is highly doubtful.

Summer knew that JM was seeing CM(last known where about) and what it was about.........she was a loose end and the children where collateral damage.
If CM believed this would possibly be his 3rd strike (financial theft plus whatever) he was going to go big. He had nothing to loose.
There are adept criminals, and there are stupid criminals. CM is stupid. He talks too much, he keeps getting caught, he lies about little stuff that's not even necessary, lies about bigger stuff that can be proven otherwise, he thinks his charm and conniving will get him by. He has a track record of not being smarter then the average bear.
 
I think this evidence is key

Trying to delete the Quickbooks account is a further circumstantial point indicating CM knew Joey was not coming back.

Deleting QB could not hide the fraud from Joey. Only from investigators.

Indeed deleting QB if Joey was likely to come home any day would obviously land CM in a power of hot water.

Yep, and when caught once again ripping another business owner off the court would look at him as being an habitual felony offender since he already has two similiar felonies.

His repeated pattern would show the court he wasn't one who could be rehabilitated. He also knew if caught again other businesses may testify against him that he had done the exact thing to them, but they did not press charges.

He knew he had made a lot of enemies along the way by what he was infamously known for doing when he ripped off others he had dealings with.

Similiar to what has happened in the Bill Cosby case when many victims testified he had done the same thing but they never pressed charges. CM knew if he was exposed once again he would be in a high pile of deep doo this time.

Imo, I think it's very likely he had continued to rip many other businesses off between his last felony, and the felony he committed against Joey, but many won't press charges.

When I worked for a large bridge building company there were occasions where either employees or subcontractors were caught stealing or had embezzled funds.

The owner preferred to fire them on the spot, and tell them they would not give them a good recommendation if another employer called them.

They didn't want to draw negative attention to the public/media showing that someone had been caught committing theft/ or had embezzled funds.

They believed it may affect their reputation overall, and they had an outstanding excellent reputation, and still do to this day. So I think he did rip many others off. A zebra doesnt change its stripes.

It wouldn't go nearly as well for CM as some may think, and he knew it. No one knows how the justice system works any better than the criminals who are in it. Imo.

I think another telling fact that has been entered into evidence is his totally nonchalant attitude he had about his 'best friend' first went missing.

Everyone that corresponded with or saw Joey on a consistent basis couldn't understand why Joey wasn't returning all of their calls, and emails.

Who is the one who tries to put their mind at ease? None other than the accused himself.

What does CM do instead when he is asked about Joey's sudden out of character behavior?

Does the awe shucks... I'll go by at the END of the week to check on my very closest best friend. It was no big deal to CM.

Sure...that's what all very close best friends do when their best friend has suddenly vanished without a trace into thin air. NOT!

But if he indeed was the murderer of his very best friend this is exactly what he would say, and he would want to stall, and tell everyone he would check it out many days later.

Meanwhile, saying he would check on his best friend many days later it actually gave him more time to cover up his crime he has done on the 4th not only against his best friend, Joey, who I'm sure he talked to every single day before he took his life, but wiping out the entire family.

Once there were four in the Joey McStay family, and by the time CM left the McStay home on the 4th there were none just like he had planned.

Imo
 
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I've seen little discussion about the possibility of a hit job. At the grave site only some unknown DNA was found. There is the possibility that someone trustworthy to the family was used to lure them somewhere, then they were abducted by hitmen, driven to the grave site, where the hitmen and the mastermind of the whole crime met. The two separate tire tracks could be one from the hired abductors, the other from the mastermind. The actual killing could be by either the hitmen or the mastermind.

This was discussed a length years ago, along with cartel connections, drug deals gone bad, Summer's ex or her different jobs, or the family disappearing to Mexico to hide. Not a scintilla of evidence and just red herrings to throw the investigation off.

I trust LE far more than blogs or musings by individuals trying to make a buck off a tragic situation.
 
I just wanted to say his mentioning his girlfriend as his wife, kids he is a little "partial" about, health requiring no jail time—all stuff to make the cops think he would have never done this and keep him out of jail is what it sounds like, trying to paint himself as a good person? He did stuff like this in the years leading up to the trial, his stupid stall tactics, crocodile tears and "can't you see my puppy eyes" & "I'm wrongly accused" type look.

But what about the mentioning of going over into Mexico to buy Viagra? Was this ever checked into? Was that his way of making these supposedly incompetent cops go "gross" and not want to follow-up?
 
Day 15 today, right?

I'm a little nervous with how many have sadly already made up their minds about his innocence.

Innocent until proven guilty. How many have made up their minds about his guilt, using 'CM' rather than 'the killer' in describing some imaginary actions, and state like a fact such things as Kavanaugh was in Hawaii, CM put a power cord around Joseph's neck, ...

CM is the suspect, there is some evidence that makes him suspicious, so lets snowball that, he did A, B, C, he could do D, E, F, why not, he's such a he's capable of anything! As for G, H, I, let's see, I don't see how he couldn't have done that! It's greed! Someone accused him of domestic violence (albeit w/o proof or conviction, who cares), right, domestic v-i-o-l-e-n-c-e, that's the same nature as murder of a family four with 2 babies! He didn't like the kids, so he killed them! What an evil man! He was around the house before the disappearance, he did the internet search. Remember greed can make someone do any evil! Remember a sociopath knows how to lie to a lie detector! So even if he passed the lie detector test it means nothing! Who said he couldn't have done the murders, look at his muscles! Look how creepy those photos with him in the desert hole are! He said Joseph was his best friend, how could he not answer his best friend's phone call because he's watching a movie? He was the first one to raise concern about not hearing from Joseph, that really makes him look suspicious! If he was not guilty, why did he want to represent himself in the court?! An innocent man would not want to represent himself! And he said his health was not good in order to be out of jail and postpone the trial, sounds so guilty! CM did it! Such an evil, can't believe there are people who still think he's innocent! CM belongs to hell! Can't wait to see him pay for what he did to this family!
 
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Cathy Russon on Twitter
Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 2h2 hours ago
#McStay - Court resumes at 10:30am PST/1:30pm EST w/NO JURY. We expect arguments regarding testimony from the QuickBooks rep that spoke to a "Joseph McStay" on Feb 8, 2010, however prosecutors say the phone used to make the call was Charles Merritt's. https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/charles-merritt/watch-live-charles-merritt-trial-for-murder-of-couple-and-children-2/ …

Dypnd6WWkAE6X9B.jpg

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Yep, and when caught once again ripping another business owner off the court would look at him as being an habitual felony offender since he already has two similiar felonies.

His repeated pattern would show the court he wasn't one who could be rehabilitated. He also knew if caught again other businesses may testify against him that he had done the exact thing to them, but they did not press charges.

He knew he had made a lot of enemies along the way by what he was infamously known for doing when he ripped off others he had dealings with.

Similiar to what has happened in the Bill Cosby case when many victims testified he had done the same thing but they never pressed charges. CM knew if he was exposed once again he would be in a high pile of deep doo this time.

Imo, I think it's very likely he had continued to rip many other businesses off between his last felony, and the felony he committed against Joey, but many won't press charges.

When I worked for a large bridge building company there were occasions where either employees or subcontractors were caught stealing or had embezzled funds.

The owner preferred to fire them on the spot, and tell them they would not give them a good recommendation if another employer called them.

They didn't want to draw negative attention to the public/media showing that someone had been caught committing theft/ or had embezzled funds.

They believed it may affect their reputation overall, and they had an outstanding excellent reputation, and still do to this day. So I think he did rip many others off. A zebra doesnt change its stripes.

It wouldn't go nearly as well for CM as some may think, and he knew it. No one knows how the justice system works any better than the criminals who are in it. Imo.

I think another telling fact that has been entered into evidence is his totally nonchalant attitude he had about his 'best friend' first went missing.

Everyone that corresponded with or saw Joey on a consistent basis couldn't understand why Joey wasn't returning all of their calls, and emails.

Who is the one who tries to put their mind at ease? None other than the accused himself.

What does CM do instead when he is asked about Joey's sudden out of character behavior?

Does the awe shucks... I'll go by at the END of the week to check on my very closest best friend. It was no big deal to CM.

Sure...that's what all very close best friends do when their best friend has suddenly vanished without a trace into thin air. NOT!


But if he indeed was the murderer of his very best friend this is exactly what he would say, and he would want to stall, and tell everyone he would check it out many days later.

Meanwhile, saying he would check on his best friend many days later it actually gave him more time to cover up his crime he has done on the 4th not only against his best friend, Joey, who I'm sure he talked to every single day before he took his life, but wiping out the entire family.

Once there were four in the Joey McStay family, and by the time CM left the McStay home on the 4th there were none just like he had planned.

Imo

RBBM

Actually, no. Chase did express concern for not being able to contact Joey. Was it genuine? Or a cover for his crimes? That remains to be seen. But you conveniently ignore the FACT that Joey's own flesh and blood ALSO were nonchalant about the missing family. CM and JM were close, but when it comes to situations like these, it is not unreasonable to imagine that CM might have felt it is more the family's place to bring LE into the picture, which is what he did attempt to get them to do. Joey's family are the ones that decided to wait several more days even though it was clearly obvious that something was very wrong and the family was not on vacation. Who decides their family's well-being based on the movement of dog bowls!?!
 
Day 15 today, right?

I'm a little nervous with how many have sadly already made up their minds about his innocence.

MW, just keep the faith, and always remember none of us here are a part of the jury sitting in judgement of CM. They are the ones who really matters.

Imo, Testimony is digested very differently when anyone is sitting in the courtroom, and have been chosen to be jurors. The jury is also able to watch the defendant like a hawk all throughout the trial.

I have seen this same held opinions by others in past cases. They do make very good arguments as to why they feel the way they do. That's why this is a discussion blog site, and not a court of law.

In fact it's sort of similar to the recently held trial of another quadruple murderer, Daron Wint. Many believed the state had not met their burden of proof.

In the end, it was up to the jury of course to decide if the defendant was guilty BARD, and they all unanimously agreed he was guilty. Frankly, I don't think DWs jury had even one doubt about DW being solely guilty of murdering all 4 of his victims.

I truly believe this jury is absorbing every piece of evidence being entered pointing to CM, and no other.

I have great faith in juries, and have no reason to not have faith in this one.

What we may think is insignificant evidence to us overall may turnout to be highly significant to them.

Many times we like to guess what the most important piece of evidence will be that will sway them one way or the other only to find it was the most important evidence only to us, and it was something else altogether that pushed them over to come to their verdict conclusion.

I can't speak for others of course, or their entitled opinions they hold, but I believe the state is building a very strong case, and there is a lot more evidence to come.

So just hang in there. Dont listen to the opinions of any of us whether its guilty or thinking the state isn't meeting their burden to proof guilt. Just rely on the jury.

Imo
 
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Day 15 today, right?

I'm a little nervous with how many have sadly already made up their minds about his innocence.

Never be nervous (or sad :p) about people having an open mind about a case. I want to see more evidence before I make up my mind about what he is or isn't guilty of. Why would that make you nervous?

And in the end, none of us or our opinions about his guilt or innocence matter. We are simply people in a true crime forum who have become attached to this case and sharing our thoughts on it. Only the juror's opinions matter. :)
 
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