CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[Plumeria5]

Too bad Joey's computer webcam wasn't on. It could have provided a lot of answers.

 

[coastal]

Thank you so much, Niner! You're a peach!!!

 

[MsFacetious]

You'd think after all these years they would have made a decision on that before the trial started. They also discussed the cell tower and accounting witnesses.....and the usual "we haven't got this summary and/or exhibit".

This absolutely should have been decided already. Evidence and expert issues should have been handled long ago. Those are hearing you have before trial, not during trial. You might have to argue a specific point you don't want mentioned, but you should not be finding out what an expert will testify to. They are supposed to prepare a report and provide their notes, for a REASON.

Or maybe he didn't know? Just as when someone says "I know he is guilty/innocent" or "He is definitely guilty/innocent" that doesn't mean they actually know he is guilty/innocent, and doesn't mean he is actually guilty/innocent.

It has occurred to me that maybe he meant the last to see him before he disappeared. Like he had communicated with others and realized no one talked to him after the fact. Maybe he didn't mean the last person EVER, just the last person before they vanished.

If he is truly innocent and was actually in Hawaii and has proof of it, why hide? It would be his opportunity to set it all straight. The financial part is most likely past the statute of limitations, so nothing can be done about that if it is.

I just looked at his FB. His last public update/post was on October 25, 2018.

Just a reminder... TR came forward on October 26th Could be a coincidence, and I can only see what is "public".

THAT is hella completely creepy, no doubt about it.

I recall cathy russon posting in chat, probably 2 weeks ago now, that the prosecution had him on their witness list, but didn't plan on calling him. I think she spoke to McGee, who said they did plan on calling him. I will say JMO though because unless I went back into all my old posts, I don't know where else to find it ;-)

What I would like to know is... if he is on a witness list, at what point do they subpoena him? Long before the trial starts... ? or when?

I have seen cases where a crucial witnesses couldn't be found and it was the basis for an appeal. I've also seen cases dropped when the star witness can no longer be fo

I've never been in such an extremely long trial, so it may be done differently in this case. You could subpoena halfway through trial and still give them 90 days notice! However, they should definitely have a PI tracking him down.

Normally we subpoena people who live out of state and/or work 6-8 weeks before so that they have time to arrange to be off work. For other witnesses we generally go 2 weeks before. Just in case it gets bumped or rescheduled. We try to avoid having all of those subpoena fees until we really know it's happening.

We try to only call witnesses who are willing to testify for us, so we don't HAVE to do subpoenas most of the time. We simply tell them what day we think we will need them and then give them a heads up a couple hours before. This way they aren't sitting in the hall all day. This is how we handle 90% of our witnesses, we have much better luck when we don't anger the witnesses from the get go. If they need a subpoena we are happy to provide one.

Here's an example. The next trial we are doing we are calling 10 witnesses. 1 needs a subpoena to get off work and come from out of state, only reason they need one. 1 is law enforcement so has to have a subpoena. 1 is a state witness that we think the state realizes is going to hurt them, so we are adding them to our witness list because they help us greatly.

We've tried in vain to get in contact and find out what day/time would work best. Since they have refused to respond they will be subpoenaed for the entire 2 week trial. The other 7 witnesses we are calling won't even get a subpoena from us. The state is also calling 2 of them, so they will likely get intimidation subpoenas from the state.

We have subpoenaed witnesses 72 hours before a hearing. They knew the hearing was coming up but weren't easy to serve. They complained about short notice and the judge said "Well, you made it here so that's a non issue."

Really it just varies so much. However with it being a months long trial, I wouldn't be surprised if subpoenas go out throughout the trial.

 

[HelenK]

Or maybe he didn't know? Just as when someone says "I know he is guilty/innocent" or "He is definitely guilty/innocent" that doesn't mean they actually know he is guilty/innocent, and doesn't mean he is actually guilty/innocent.

When he stated that he "definitely was the last person" Joey saw, he was clearly stating a fact, not a conjecture. He meant precisely that. And I think that at the moment he said it, Mr. Merritt was feeling confident, smug, and awfully proud of himself.

 

[HelenK]

He looks suspicious to me.

Why? To me he just looks tired. And bored.

 

[mrjitty]

So a couple thoughts after watching today's testimony, mostly with Det. Schroeder.

2/4 3:03 pm - Joey's cell phone registered activity in RC (call to Merritt), he (or at least his cell phone) is then heading south towards Fallbrook.

2/4 4:18 pm - Joey's cell phone registered activity in Fallbrook (call to Merritt)

2/4 4:56 pm & 5:01 pm - someone via the E-Machine T-2040 computer tower visits sketchup.com (likely Joey?)

2/4 5:47 pm Summer calls Joey's cell phone from her cell phone but he does not answer (I think this is accurate, please let me know if wrong)

2/4 5:47 pm Joey (via his cell phone) has an approximately 3 minute call with Chase

2/4 6:08 pm- someone via the Hewlett-Packard PC M700 clicked a bookmark for "quickbooks online"

2/4 7:56 pm - someone via the E-Machine T-2040 computer tower accesses quickbooks (Joey's account)

2/4 8:28 pm Joey's phone calls Chase's phone, goes to voice mail iirc

I always wondered if Joey actually made it home after the "chick-fil-a lunch" but this new information re: the sketchup.com visit has me think he likely did. It seems like just the kind of site he would visit for his business. So maybe he leaves RC around 3, gets home between 4:30 - 4:55, heads into his office to do some business research. What's strange is Summer's call to him at 5:47. I wonder if during one of Joey's calls with Chase that afternoon, Chase decided to come down to Fallbrook to "go over business" or something and Joey agreed to meet him somewhere. I guess that would explain why Summer would be calling Joey at 5:47, he was out somewhere with Chase. I don't know how the rest falls into place but my mind is trying to sort out this new information lol.

ETA: 2/4 6:08pm "quickbooks online" and 7:56pm quickbooks account

This is an interesting idea!

It's also completely possible he popped out on an errand or similar.

Personally I get that kind of missed call in the supermarket as I never hear my phone in my pocket.

Could it be that he picked up the toys being sold on ebay?

 

[mrjitty]

The search happened right before the checks were written to chase merritt. And those checks ended up in chases greedy mitts, so....?

For me this is what is so powerful.

The person who was creating the dodgy cheques was Chase. There can be no doubt about that. So the QB activity on the night of the murders placed Chase at the Crime scene. Then right after the murders he creates more, backdated and is cashing them same day. He also hand delivers the MSM ones.

What is fascinating is that the murderer keeps going back to the house.

The thing about this particular crime scene staging is that the murderer seeks to obscure the relationship between himself and the victims. But in doing so, he reveals that such a relationship exists. This is always the problem with staging. It reveals the hand of the killer.

If the murderer were a pro, he would simply leave the bodies where they lay, or dump them somewhere to buy a little bit of time. But there would be no need to stage. Indeed more usually experienced killers focus on destroying evidence (e.g. dumping bodies in water to wreck forensics, or secreting bodies so forensics cannot be found) but they don't try to create false narratives.

False narratives are created precisely because the murder was not random.

So why keep going back? That is where Chase gave himself away.

 

[mrjitty]

Seeing more of the State's evidence, I am increasingly confident things played out relatively spontaneously without any clever advance staging from Chase.

It seems most likely Joey did make it home. So the 5:47 pm call to Chase is key because Chase answers that call which places him at least 1 hr away if I understand the traffic conditions correctly. IMO hard words were said on this call.

In which case Chase does not arrive at the murder scene before 7pm

This fits perfectly with bath time.

However I do think @cobalt sky 's idea is a significant possibility. What if, in order to avoid fighting in front of Summer and the kids, Joey agrees to meet Chase locally - e.g. car park or similar? This would explain why the Trooper is not in the driveway. It's after dark, they park up. Chase attacks with the hammer in a wild fight. Wraps him and chucks the body in the back of the trooper.

Wild speculation ...

 

[mrjitty]

This absolutely should have been decided already. Evidence and expert issues should have been handled long ago. Those are hearing you have before trial, not during trial. You might have to argue a specific point you don't want mentioned, but you should not be finding out what an expert will testify to. They are supposed to prepare a report and provide their notes, for a REASON.




It has occurred to me that maybe he meant the last to see him before he disappeared. Like he had communicated with others and realized no one talked to him after the fact. Maybe he didn't mean the last person EVER, just the last person before they vanished.




THAT is hella completely creepy, no doubt about it.




I have seen cases where a crucial witnesses couldn't be found and it was the basis for an appeal. I've also seen cases dropped when the star witness can no longer be fo

I've never been in such an extremely long trial, so it may be done differently in this case. You could subpoena halfway through trial and still give them 90 days notice! However, they should definitely have a PI tracking him down.

Normally we subpoena people who live out of state and/or work 6-8 weeks before so that they have time to arrange to be off work. For other witnesses we generally go 2 weeks before. Just in case it gets bumped or rescheduled. We try to avoid having all of those subpoena fees until we really know it's happening.

We try to only call witnesses who are willing to testify for us, so we don't HAVE to do subpoenas most of the time. We simply tell them what day we think we will need them and then give them a heads up a couple hours before. This way they aren't sitting in the hall all day. This is how we handle 90% of our witnesses, we have much better luck when we don't anger the witnesses from the get go. If they need a subpoena we are happy to provide one.

Here's an example. The next trial we are doing we are calling 10 witnesses. 1 needs a subpoena to get off work and come from out of state, only reason they need one. 1 is law enforcement so has to have a subpoena. 1 is a state witness that we think the state realizes is going to hurt them, so we are adding them to our witness list because they help us greatly.

We've tried in vain to get in contact and find out what day/time would work best. Since they have refused to respond they will be subpoenaed for the entire 2 week trial. The other 7 witnesses we are calling won't even get a subpoena from us. The state is also calling 2 of them, so they will likely get intimidation subpoenas from the state.

We have subpoenaed witnesses 72 hours before a hearing. They knew the hearing was coming up but weren't easy to serve. They complained about short notice and the judge said "Well, you made it here so that's a non issue."

Really it just varies so much. However with it being a months long trial, I wouldn't be surprised if subpoenas go out throughout the trial.

Fascinating insights!

I tend to agree that with such a long trial, stuff will happen along the way in terms of the case management.

I bet the defense hasn't even decided if they want to call DK. As he is essentially hostile, he could wreck their whole case in 5 mins

 

[mrjitty]

This absolutely should have been decided already. Evidence and expert issues should have been handled long ago. Those are hearing you have before trial, not during trial. You might have to argue a specific point you don't want mentioned, but you should not be finding out what an expert will testify to. They are supposed to prepare a report and provide their notes, for a REASON.

Do you work in Cali? Is this slapstick procedure common?

I find all this stuff highly unprofessional. No New Zealand High Court judge would allow all this tomfoolery. All of these procedural hearings etc would have been scheduled long in advance and content discovered in the papers

I am leaning towards the idea that the Judge is mostly to blame for allowing such carry on

 

[HelenK]

JM had just confronted him after he stole money from him.

Where did such info come from?

If A lucas had stuck a "Possibly" in front of "JM," maybe you'd find his post more acceptable. It's the old conjecture thing, you know ...........

 

[Tortoise]

Something else I'm curious about. On Device 5 (the Hewlett-Packard PC M700):

Index 158 2/5/10 6:16pm qw2006.quicken.com bookmark is accessed, title "Free Credit Report and Score"

So someone was in the house on the HP PC M700 on the 5th at 6:16pm.

rsbm

And wouldn't you know it, Chase' phone was not connecting any towers:

84/18 And after the
19 3:54 P.M. call, which was in the Rancho Cucamonga area, there's
20 no call activity until 9:17 P.M.
21 Q So, over five hours of no activity on the 5th?
22 A Correct.

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

 

[mrjitty]

And wouldn't you know it, Chase' phone was not connecting any towers:

84/18 And after the
19 3:54 P.M. call, which was in the Rancho Cucamonga area, there's
20 no call activity until 9:17 P.M.
21 Q So, over five hours of no activity on the 5th?
22 A Correct.

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

Another amazing coincidence!

 

[Tssiemer]

It’s just raining coincidences up in here!!!!

 

[Tortoise]

EXACTLY! The killer was checking the browsing history from the drop menu, thus the Dinosaur train. He was hoping to find the direct link to the Quickbooks login with the password already put in.

Yep, agreed. After those 2 am searches on the computer on the afternoon of the 8th was the call to get a new version of QB, and then on the 9th the call to delete QB records.

I think the first attempt to access QB at 02.06.27 am via the browsing history failed, and then the 4 searches which would be clicks on other random entries in the browsing history, done in approximate 10 second intervals thereafter, were to move them back up to the top of the search history and not leave QB as the last entry in the browsing history.

The only problem is if he was trying to impersonate Joey that would mean Joey was looking up completely random websites that he had already visited at 2 am at 10 second intervals without bothering to look at the results. That is not by most reasonable persons judgement going to be the actions of a man who has disappeared with his family with no signs of life after the 4th, but it could very easily be the behaviour of someone who killed Joey and his family, breaking into the home through an open window in the wee hours of darkness to get into the QB records and trying to cover his tracks afterwards. Not exactly a hacker is it?!! That person couldn't even wipe the history!! Ah, sorry I forgot DK was obviously trying to impersonate Chase and so wouldn't have left it looking like a hacker did it, and somehow had control of Chase' phone at all relevant times.

 

[mrjitty]

So interestingly, if he didn't kill the family at the house, why does he keep going back there?

 

[A lucas]

If A lucas had stuck a "Possibly" in front of "JM," maybe you'd find his post more acceptable. It's the old conjecture thing, you know ...........

Thanks Helen.
I’m guess I’m just running with what the prosecution has implied in the opening statements about CM’s theft, greed and fraud which I think they have spot on.

1) 2 Feb CM takes money from Joey’s account
2) 4 Feb Joey rings bank whilst headed to meet CM
3) Joey calls CM
4)CM frantically rings his girlfriend SIX times
5) Joey rings bank again
6) Joey meets CM
7) seven short Calls back and forth between them on Joey’s drive home. An argument ensues in my view
8) Final call with Joey late afternoon then CM’s phone goes dark
9) that evening a car looking suspiciously like CM's pulls out of Joey’s drive way.
10) Next time anyone sees Joey and family it’s in a graves in the Mojave dessert
11) on day of murder and subsequent days CM accesses Joey’s account and helps himself to more money. Cell phone goes dark again over the following days several times for lengthy periods, when previously it’s always on the grid.
12) CM calls quickbooks from his own phone to try cover his deception by requesting the account is closed. He fails in his attempt.

These are the key points that have led me to believe they have the right man on trial. JMO!

 

[Tortoise]

2/4 5:47 pm Summer calls Joey's cell phone from her cell phone but he does not answer (I think this is accurate, please let me know if wrong)

I interpreted it as an outgoing text from Joey's phone to Summer's phone at 5.47 pm. Perhaps I'm wrong on that - see attached record.

I also have a note that these two items weren't showing in his phone records:

Call to Joey from the house phone at 4.25 pm
Summer texted Joey at 5.05 pm

 

[Tortoise]

4)CM frantically rings his girlfriend SIX times

It's actually NINE times.

In those 9 minutes after Joey called him and before Cathy called him back, he made 13 calls!

 

[A lucas]

It's actually NINE times.

In those 9 minutes after Joey called him and before Cathy called him back, he made 13 calls!

Wow!