CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[Cricket28]

P


Lucas, I totally agree with you, and your worry.

Maybe I am way too naive, but I would like to believe the best lesson she can teach her children is to always be honest no matter how hard it may be at the time.

I'm sure she has already told their children neither she or the children are to blame nor in any way responsible for their dad,s actions that caused him to be on trial for very serious crimes.

I think she knows he put his own personal rage, greed, and vendetta/ revenge first, and betrayed all of them by making that his number priority instead of his children, and their mom.

I think she already knows even if convicted, and given death it will never be carried out, and he will die from old age being cared for by the taxpayers.

Anyone who lives in CA already knows even though juries often find the death penalty the correct punishment in many...many...cases the government thumbs their nose and ignores the countless decisions they made never implementing what they painstakingly decided each time.

So I don't think she is that worried about it actually coming to fruition.

That is so well known even for those who don't even reside in CA.

I do have compassion for CJ and the children.

Imo

I think CJ and the kids completely support CM. When I attended day 9 of the trial, their oldest daughter was there. She was sitting front row behind CM, even conversing with the DT.
I know I've read she has been there other days as well.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

And maybe he didn't want to tell her yet? Maybe he wanted to be sure before telling her... she already didn't like Chase, it would just be one more reason not to like him. I could see Joey not telling her everything, just knowing what he know about Summer. She was no nonsense, spoke her mind, and didn't always get along with everyone because of it (it wasn't just Chase).

Yes, I reckon saying I'm meeting Chase and running out the door would be enough to make any wife who doesn't like Chase angry.

I don't happen to think Joey fired Chase that lunch time. I think Chase gave him the run around and that's why (IMO) he said he would come to Fallbrook later. If he turned off his phone he had it planned.

 

[missy1974]

It would be in camera range, but they (prosecutors) wouldn't be able to link it, or any other vehicles going past, to the McStay house because it doesn't turn in on the camera range. There are vehicles that go straight ahead that they don't mention.

When it's backing in the most seen on the camera would be a glow from lights but the actual headlights would be out of range.

You don't think the side camera would have caught the vehicle driving by though if the Trooper was parked outside the house?

We don't know who or what drove by before 7pm because we don't have that video, but SD did look at her camera footage and took what they thought was important (which could mean they missed it lol) But like you said, maybe they did see one driving by and didn't think anything of it.

 

[MsFacetious]

@ message in a bottle? Or by balloon? Oh! Homing pigeons!

But they don't have LE or the FBI at their disposal to serve him a subpoena, right? lol

I would think not though it's possible the defense does have some law enforcement friends. You never know. However, they absolutely could find him and serve him I believe.

 

[Tortoise]

You don't think the side camera would have caught the vehicle driving by though if the Trooper was parked outside the house?

We don't know who or what drove by before 7pm because we don't have that video, but SD did look at her camera footage and took what they thought was important (which could mean they missed it lol) But like you said, maybe they did see one driving by and didn't think anything of it.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'driving by'? I did say it would be captured 'going past' which means the same as what I think you mean.

 

[Edmo]

Actually, I just did the Timeline during the Prelim hearing. And

Just in case you haven't found it - I'm about 100 posts behind right now....
*****
Feb. 9, 4:49pm to 10:11pm - CM cell phone pings at Pechanga Casino.
4:49pm to 10:11pm – cell tower adjacent to the Pechanga Indian Reservation in the Temecula area. ATM withdrawal of $1000 at Pechanga Casino from CM’s BofA account...

Tuesday, Feb. 9 to Thursday, March 12 – CM makes series of ATM withdrawals at Pechanga and other SoCal casinos. Detective Ryan Smith of SBSD testified that Merritt made several ATM withdrawals from Southern California casinos between Feb. 9 and March 12, 2010, totaling a few thousand dollars.

Monday, February 22, 2010 – ATM cash withdrawal of $1500 from San Manuel Casino from CM BofA account – per Prelim hearing page 131.

March 8 – Cash withdrawal of two $503 from Commerce Casino in Commerce, Calif. – per Prelim hearing page 131.

Friday, March 12 – Cash withdrawal of $504 from San Manuel Casino per Prelim hearing page 131.
*****



In the Timeline that I did up - here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mcstay-family-comprehensive-timeline.285143/

I start off with Jan. 20, 2010 with how many calls are between Joey & Chase on average before Feb. 4th.

regarding e-notes - from my notes: per Bessie: the e-notes were system messages from the T-Mobile network.

Whatever THAT means!!?? LOL!

and THANKS Cricket for your juror observations!

I'm wondering that when CM created the checks to pay the businesses they vendored with, was it to keep them from attempting to contact JM? All of the previous calls from Feb1 -Feb4th, I wonder if JM told/confronted CM about the check from the 1st and JM owing the vendors, or could CM see it in QB's? Or, was it actually CM that owed the vhose vendors?

 

[missy1974]

I think CJ and the kids completely support CM. When I attended day 9 of the trial, their oldest daughter was there. She was sitting front row behind CM, even conversing with the DT.
I know I've read she has been there other days as well.

MOO

Reading posts this morning... and just jumping off of yours...

When exactly did Cathy and Chase break up? I am not convinced that she knew anything or it was this situation that caused their break-up... only because I have also read that they were still in contact, and it appears that it was an amicable break up, I wouldn't expect that if she suspected that he killed the McStay's, but that's just me... I would be running for the hills or LE.

I am hesitant to use her words of what they were doing those days against her after hearing Chase's interview with Dugal, Chase called Cathy to see what they were doing on President's day because that's what they asked him, they meant the 8th, which was NOT president's day, so not only were they asking what they did 9 days previous, he relied on Cathy to tell him what he did... and IMO from her perspective, she had no reason to remember what she did those days if they were insignificant day's to her. He deferred to her because he didn't remember. IIRC they didn't ask about that 8:28 phone call in that interview, but it's been said that it was Cathy's memory, not Chase's, right? So Chase can now blame Cathy for that memory.

Did Chase already have health problems in 2010? I only ask because my hubby has a chronic illness, takes meds, etc. His memory is crap. He couldn't tell you what he did 3 days ago, or a week ago if you asked him ... and he would say ask her ... lol I don't let him go to any important doctor appt's without me, or if I do, the doc sends home reports for me... I also send notes with him haha

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm not certain Joey had time to tell Summer about the QB before he left that morning.

11.51 - 11.53 Joey calls the bank 2 mins
11.53 - 11.55 Joey calls Chase 2 mins
11.56 - 11.58 Joey signs into QB 2 mins
11.56 - 11.57 Joey texts Chase 1 min
12.15 - 12.22 Joey calls bank 7 mins - he is in Lake Elsinore 30 miles from home on I-15, that is 20 mins after called Chase. That is driving at 90 mph!

I don't see any calls to Summer after 11.51 and he was on calls for 11 minutes solid before he first called the bank at 11.51 - 11.53 and then presumably flew out the door.

Wow! It seems Joey kicked into high gear once he discovered all of this, and fast!

Imo, this time Joey had finally had enough! This time he planned to handle this immediately once and for all!! He had finally had his fill of CM!

I think Joey felt so enraged at how he had been so betrayed by CM. The very man who pretended to be his close friend making Joey believe CM really cared about him. The same man who already owed him 43k! This showed Joey all of it had been nothing more than an act!!

As I have mentioned early on, when easygoing people finally get to the point where they aren't going to take it anymore they can often stand their ground with the one they know who has long been taking advantage of them.

Then that normally easy laid back individual can become quite capable of standing up to their worst adversary.

Imo, I think Joey blasted CM in the meeting, and for the first time ever CM realized Joey wasn't going to rollover this time. CM knew his manipulation con game was over.

Do we know what the one minute text consisted of, Tortoise? Tia

Imo

 

[missy1974]

Yes, I reckon saying I'm meeting Chase and running out the door would be enough to make any wife who doesn't like Chase angry.

I don't happen to think Joey fired Chase that lunch time. I think Chase gave him the run around and that's why (IMO) he said he would come to Fallbrook later. If he turned off his phone he had it planned.

Running out the door and meeting Chase seemed to be common though, wasn't it? I am not sure how much they met in person, but we do know they spent a lot of time on the phone together.

I think it most likely happened that way too... Chase talked himself out of the jam at lunch time... they both left.... what I'm unsure of is if he maybe followed Joey? or waited to go there later? There is just something not adding up... whether it was Joey was gone before he got home or something in between that meeting and we just haven't been able to figure out yet, and may never figure it out.

 

[Tortoise]

Do we know what the one minute text consisted of, Tortoise? Tia

I don't know ocean, I'm just copying that from other timelines. Maybe someone else knows, even if Chase deleted it they might be able to recover it.

 

[Bernina]

The Chick-fil-A in Rancho Cucamonga to Fallbrook is about an hour and a half drive........I can't see CM driving all that way to murder a family of 4, that's a LOT of time to think.
But I CAN see CM killing (or incapacitating) JM in a rage at the time of the Chick-fil-A meeting (if that really happened) and realizing he has to take care of the loose end (Summer) who could place JM with CM. Children were collateral damage.

JM was tied and wrapped up, none of the rest of the family was. WHY? Could he have been killed and wrapped knowing that the body wouldn't be immediately disposed of?

Is it a FACT that the 3 lb sledge hammer was from the McStay house or was it from CM's truck? It's common for a welder to have one or 3 for that matter. Example: you spot weld pieces of steel angle iron together and placement is off, you knock it apart with a 3 lb sledge. I do it, my husband does it, and so do my friends who are into welding with steel. You don't torch it apart, you don't use a cut wheel to cut it apart. Between myself and my DH, we've put up literally miles of metal pipe fencing and apprx. 40 stalls and livestock shelters using angle iron. My DH does commercial steel bar tops, etc, etc.

Just putting it out there.......

 

[Edmo]

What interests me the most is to know if CJs statement to LE has changed any since they have long been apart now?

I think they most likely have interviewed her again since the PH was held to see if she may have remembered more concerning the day it happened, and all of the days afterwards.

Who's witness list is she on? Tia

We have often seen this happen in other cases when a live in partner is no longer in any kind of relationship with the defendant.

In fact, in several cases it was their helpful statement when they finally came forward to LE much later after the break up, and told them what they had known all along that finally lead to the case being solved.

I wonder if she saw any difference in what he may have been wearing that day or when she washed clothes? Just a thought.

At the time when these type of witnesses first gave a statement to LE some even admitted they had provided false alibis for the suspects when first questioned.

Sometimes their testimony can lead to them being one of the key witnesses in the case.

Will there be things she is willing to reveal now since the defendant has been locked up for years, and their relationship ended years ago? Did she say why their relationship ended in only 6 months afterwards?

She will now be able to look back without any emotional involvement.

If someone is able to finally look at everything with a more objective view from the outside looking in it can make them come to completely different conclusions.

Often they are able to see many things much clearer, and far differently than when they were in the middle of it at the time, where emotional attachments clouded their perspective, and choices they may have made back then or what they convinced themselves into believing at the time.

Imo

From CM's arrest Press Conference, Inv Fisher stated they interviewed her several times.

 

[Cricket28]

Reading posts this morning... and just jumping off of yours...

When exactly did Cathy and Chase break up? I am not convinced that she knew anything or it was this situation that caused their break-up... only because I have also read that they were still in contact, and it appears that it was an amicable break up, I wouldn't expect that if she suspected that he killed the McStay's, but that's just me... I would be running for the hills or LE.

I am hesitant to use her words of what they were doing those days against her after hearing Chase's interview with Dugal, Chase called Cathy to see what they were doing on President's day because that's what they asked him, they meant the 8th, which was NOT president's day, so not only were they asking what they did 9 days previous, he relied on Cathy to tell him what he did... and IMO from her perspective, she had no reason to remember what she did those days if they were insignificant day's to her. He deferred to her because he didn't remember. IIRC they didn't ask about that 8:28 phone call in that interview, but it's been said that it was Cathy's memory, not Chase's, right? So Chase can now blame Cathy for that memory.

Did Chase already have health problems in 2010? I only ask because my hubby has a chronic illness, takes meds, etc. His memory is crap. He couldn't tell you what he did 3 days ago, or a week ago if you asked him ... and he would say ask her ... lol I don't let him go to any important doctor appt's without me, or if I do, the doc sends home reports for me... I also send notes with him haha

BBM

Well there is this from SBSW 14-1849:

Prior to this interview on February 17th , 2010, Merritt spoke with SDSO investigators on the phone to set up the appointment for the interview. Merritt mentioned he had recently gotten out of the hospital with heart problems and had stints ( I believe the correct spelling is stents) placed in his heart. SBCSD investigators believe Merritt mentioned his heart problems in an attempt to sway investigators attention away from him as a suspect as he led investigators to believe he was not physically capable of murdering the McStay family. Merritt mentioned he received medical treatment at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.

<snipped>

Merritt stated he was left handed and was waiting for his doctor to release him for work. (Note: they're talking about his interview on 2/17/10 when SDSO noticed the injury to his hand which CM claimed he cut it on sheet metal).

SBCSD investigators again believe Merritt was trying to sway SDSO investigators away from believing he was capable of the murders due to his injuries. SBCSD investigators reviewed home video footage of Merritt associating with the McStay family. This footage was found in the McStay residence after their disappearance and was time stamped on a few months prior to their disappearance. In this video footage, Merritt jumped over a fence and climbed a mountain next to the McStay home. Investigators believe this video shows Merritt was in relatively healthy condition and Merritt's statements of numerous injuries were exaggerated for investigators.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

I don't know ocean, I'm just copying that from other timelines. Maybe someone else knows, even if Chase deleted it they might be able to recover it.

If it was a text, I think it would have shown as 0 minutes. Not your timeline Tortoise so not directed at you. I am finding some things aren't exactly as the timelines, like the call from the house doesn't show on Joey's phone.

I am not sure about the deleted text. I don't think they looked until 2013, if he still had his phone and hadn't deleted it, it could have been recovered. So much time in between to get rid of those things when SD thought they were voluntarily missing *sigh*

 

[Edmo]

I would think not though it's possible the defense does have some law enforcement friends. You never know. However, they absolutely could find him and serve him I believe.

The main Defense Attorney used to be a Prosecutor, so he has connections.

 

[missy1974]

BBM

Well there is this from SBSW 14-1849:

Prior to this interview on February 17th , 2010, Merritt spoke with SDSO investigators on the phone to set up the appointment for the interview. Merritt mentioned he had recently gotten out of the hospital with heart problems and had stints ( I believe the correct spelling is stents) placed in his heart. SBCSD investigators believe Merritt mentioned his heart problems in an attempt to sway investigators attention away from him as a suspect as he led investigators to believe he was not physically capable of murdering the McStay family. Merritt mentioned he received medical treatment at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.

<snipped>

Merritt stated he was left handed and was waiting for his doctor to release him for work. (Note: they're talking about his interview on 2/17/10 when SDSO noticed the injury to his hand which CM claimed he cut it on sheet metal).

SBCSD investigators again believe Merritt was trying to sway SDSO investigators away from believing he was capable of the murders due to his injuries. SBCSD investigators reviewed home video footage of Merritt associating with the McStay family. This footage was found in the McStay residence after their disappearance and was time stamped on a few months prior to their disappearance. In this video footage, Merritt jumped over a fence and climbed a mountain next to the McStay home. Investigators believe this video shows Merritt was in relatively healthy condition and Merritt's statements of numerous injuries were exaggerated for investigators.

MOO

Ok wait... he had recent surgery? How recent? Does anyone know? Was it in January 2010? Is this when his work was "lacking"? I mean... you don't walk out of a hospital after having stents put in and start lifting and making water fountains, do you?

I'm not making excuses for him... but I would like to know how recent "recent" is LOL If the video footage was a few months prior... was this before or after the stents? relatively healthy condition and then requiring stents... Ugggh I don't know how I feel about this lol I would like to know dates of surgery, etc. Was this condition known when he climbed the mountain?

 

[Bernina]

BBM

Well there is this from SBSW 14-1849:

Prior to this interview on February 17th , 2010, Merritt spoke with SDSO investigators on the phone to set up the appointment for the interview. Merritt mentioned he had recently gotten out of the hospital with heart problems and had stints ( I believe the correct spelling is stents) placed in his heart. SBCSD investigators believe Merritt mentioned his heart problems in an attempt to sway investigators attention away from him as a suspect as he led investigators to believe he was not physically capable of murdering the McStay family. Merritt mentioned he received medical treatment at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.

<snipped>

Merritt stated he was left handed and was waiting for his doctor to release him for work. (Note: they're talking about his interview on 2/17/10 when SDSO noticed the injury to his hand which CM claimed he cut it on sheet metal).

Didn't LE get the hospital records to verify this? And it was false?

When you get a stent, you receive a card to carry with you in case you have a medical emergency. CM would have had one if that had been the case.

 

[missy1974]

I'm wondering that when CM created the checks to pay the businesses they vendored with, was it to keep them from attempting to contact JM? All of the previous calls from Feb1 -Feb4th, I wonder if JM told/confronted CM about the check from the 1st and JM owing the vendors, or could CM see it in QB's? Or, was it actually CM that owed the vhose vendors?

CM did not owe MSM IMO From what the MSM staff testified about, it was always Joey that paid. It could be that CM owed Joey money from what Joey paid to MSM, but MSM never got payment from CM directly.

I'm thinking he made the MSM cheques so Carmen wouldn't keep trying to get in touch with Joey.

 

[Edmo]

CM's phone pings in Victorville on the 6th at around 11:30 am ish until around 1:30 pm ish. Then his cell phone is "disabled," according to pre-lim timeline, from 3:00 pm until the following morning at 7:30 am.

There are 2 separate tire tracks at gravesite.

I wonder if he used one vehicle in the am to "scout" the area and bury evidence items etc. I can't see him burying bodies in the broad daylight? Then return in the evening with a vehicle that could carry all 4 bodies and burying them when it's dark? We know he was familiar with the area and found a place to bury them where it's hard to see from passing vehicles on the I-15, IMO.

Left handed vs right handed: My predominant hand is right, however, I shovel/shoot/rake/sweep left handed.

Wasn't the sledgehammer found underneath Summer/Baby's bodies? Have we already heard about everything they found inside of the gravesites? Is there a list somewhere that shows which items were found and the order of how they found them? Thanks

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What if Joey gave him an ultimatum during the meeting?

Example: ' I know you are stealing from my account you sorry @#%&##, and if you dont bring me every dam* cent today you have stolen from me, I'm going to have your *advertiser censored** locked up!' 'I will give you until xxxx today to come up with all of the money, and not a minute later.'