CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

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It's actually NINE times.

In those 9 minutes after Joey called him and before Cathy called him back, he made 13 calls!

This is also why I believe they actually did met.

Because both of them stop calling anyone.

People like CM are very good liars. I don't believe his first idea was to murder Joey. Rather he will have tried to his way out of this.

I would love to know what BS he spouted.
 
Just as an aside I haven't seen any proof that Joey called Chase 7 times on his way home from or as he was leaving Rancho Cucamonga.

The prosecutor said it in the OS but I count 4 calls

3.03 pm Ontario Ca
3.32 pm Norco Ca
4.18 pm Fallbrook Ca
5.47 pm Fallbrook Ca

The only other entries I see totaling 3 are internet connections at 3.44 pm, 4.13 pm and 5.47 pm. Non-cell phone user here doesn't know if those could be messages to Chase?
 
This is also why I believe they actually did met.

Because both of them stop calling anyone.

People like CM are very good liars. I don't believe his first idea was to murder Joey. Rather he will have tried to ******** his way out of this.

I would love to know what BS he spouted.
I don't believe we've seen Chase's phone records during the lunch time, or have we and I missed it?
 
What are the options for Chase needing desperately to speak to Cathy when Joey arrives in Rancho?

1. If Cathy is at home - don't answer the door to Joey.
2. Is Joey parked at the apartment, or with you?
3. Has Joey called you (and what did he say)?
4. If Joey calls you don't answer the phone or tell him I've had to go someplace.
5. If Cathy is out, is she planning on coming back soon?
6. I'm going to be out on business this afternoon so don't cook for me.
 
Not that I recall. I think Joey’s phone was connected to the internet throughout lunch and I wonder if that was him showing CM proof of the withdrawal on 2 Feb?
I'm still not convinced they met. I think there's a possibility Chase avoided him and was hiding out in Starbucks. If internet connections are messages that could be Joey messaging Chase?
 
Thank you so much, Niner! You're a peach!!!
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Niner is the Custodian of McStay Records. We are indebted to their service.
It's actually NINE times.

In those 9 minutes after Joey called him and before Cathy called him back, he made 13 calls!
Yes thank you for correcting that. 13 attempted calls in 9 minutes. Average calling again and again in less than a minute. This is hard to explain away. This is something maybe you do if your car broke down and you're on the freeway or you lost your wallet/credit cards. He was about to meet his money-man and just spoke to him at 12:52.

Something's wrong.
 
Just as an aside I haven't seen any proof that Joey called Chase 7 times on his way home from or as he was leaving Rancho Cucamonga.

The prosecutor said it in the OS but I count 4 calls

3.03 pm Ontario Ca
3.32 pm Norco Ca
4.18 pm Fallbrook Ca
5.47 pm Fallbrook Ca

The only other entries I see totaling 3 are internet connections at 3.44 pm, 4.13 pm and 5.47 pm. Non-cell phone user here doesn't know if those could be messages to Chase?
I think he's including the 2 calls before the lunch meet, at my count would be 7.
 
If he is truly innocent and was actually in Hawaii and has proof of it, why hide? It would be his opportunity to set it all straight. The financial part is most likely past the statute of limitations, so nothing can be done about that if it is.

I just looked at his FB. His last public update/post was on October 25, 2018.

Just a reminder... TR came forward on October 26th :eek: Could be a coincidence, and I can only see what is "public".

I'm not sure why he would have to prove he is own innocence?

Why would he have to do that if he already knows he had no involvement?

I've never seen anyone who isn't charged with a crime have the need or are required to exonerate themselves. That's not how our justice system is designed nor works. It's the opposite actually. Even those who have been accused, and charged with a crime have no legal burden to prove they are innocent. So Merritt is not required to prove he is innocent but DK is???

So why should DK be treated any differently than all who havent even been charged with anything?

I think it's more likely its outsiders who wants him to declare his innocence to satisfy their own curiosity.

I find it rather odd in today's time no one can find DK. If the defense has really subpoenaed DK, signed off by the judge, then the police, even the US Marshals office would be involved.

Has there been any proof offered by the defense showing DK has been issued a subpoena signed off by this judge? Have they showed anyone a copy of the subpoena? Have they had hearings with the judge even though they have a subpoena they are unable to locate him. If so, the judge would immediately get the proper authorities involved and in high gear to locate him.

After all this DT constantly whines to the judge about everything else so surely this has been one of them.

I think it's another defense tactic I've seen happen in a few other cases, where they pretend they cant locate a certain witness because they dont really want the person to testify, and would rather talk about them to the jury instead.

So what's going to happen after their CIC with DK not called, and then he is called in rebuttal by the state?

I'm sure if the state calls DK they will immediately ask him if he has tried to hide out avoiding the defense subpoena or any subpoena for that matter.

So the defense is playing a risky game that could easily backfire.

I have no doubt the state knows his exact location right now. Maybe they should ask the state although I believe the defense also knows where he is.

Its much easier for the defense to claim they can't locate him trying to fool the jury into believing, falsely imo, he is in hiding because he is the one who did these murders.

I think we will learn further along during this unbelievably long trial the state and investigator has had much more contact with DK than some may think.

The state has known for a long time all along DK was going to be targeted by the defense as the SODDI, and, IMO are fully prepared to refute the defense theory.

Imo, they aren't really looking hard to find his location.

It's far better for them to be able to throw up baseless assumptions about HIM rather than actually finding him in order to testify as a witness in their case.

Imo
 
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So a couple thoughts after watching today's testimony, mostly with Det. Schroeder.

2/4 3:03 pm - Joey's cell phone registered activity in RC (call to Merritt), he (or at least his cell phone) is then heading south towards Fallbrook.

2/4 4:18 pm - Joey's cell phone registered activity in Fallbrook (call to Merritt)

2/4 4:56 pm & 5:01 pm - someone via the E-Machine T-2040 computer tower visits sketchup.com (likely Joey?)

2/4 5:47 pm Summer calls Joey's cell phone from her cell phone but he does not answer (I think this is accurate, please let me know if wrong)

2/4 5:47 pm Joey (via his cell phone) has an approximately 3 minute call with Chase

2/4 6:08 pm- someone via the Hewlett-Packard PC M700 clicked a bookmark for "quickbooks online"

2/4 7:56 pm - someone via the E-Machine T-2040 computer tower accesses quickbooks (Joey's account)

2/4 8:28 pm Joey's phone calls Chase's phone, goes to voice mail iirc

I always wondered if Joey actually made it home after the "chick-fil-a lunch" but this new information re: the sketchup.com visit has me think he likely did. It seems like just the kind of site he would visit for his business. So maybe he leaves RC around 3, gets home between 4:30 - 4:55, heads into his office to do some business research. What's strange is Summer's call to him at 5:47. I wonder if during one of Joey's calls with Chase that afternoon, Chase decided to come down to Fallbrook to "go over business" or something and Joey agreed to meet him somewhere. I guess that would explain why Summer would be calling Joey at 5:47, he was out somewhere with Chase. I don't know how the rest falls into place but my mind is trying to sort out this new information lol.

ETA: 2/4 6:08pm "quickbooks online" and 7:56pm quickbooks account

BBM. Summer never called Joseph from her phone. She did send a text to him at 5:05.

Joseph called Chase at 5:47 but his phone died or cut out (hung up?) a minute into the call and Joseph continued to talk for two more minutes. The duration of the that call (the second to last call) was 3 minutes.
 
Is it possible the websites accessed at 2am were reached by hitting the "back" button? I find it odd that the defense suggested the little drop down bar was used. Or am I missing something? And can someone explain the "free credit score" access? I thought it was perhaps an ad embedded on the main QB page.
 
This absolutely should have been decided already. Evidence and expert issues should have been handled long ago. Those are hearing you have before trial, not during trial. You might have to argue a specific point you don't want mentioned, but you should not be finding out what an expert will testify to. They are supposed to prepare a report and provide their notes, for a REASON.




It has occurred to me that maybe he meant the last to see him before he disappeared. Like he had communicated with others and realized no one talked to him after the fact. Maybe he didn't mean the last person EVER, just the last person before they vanished.




THAT is hella completely creepy, no doubt about it.




I have seen cases where a crucial witnesses couldn't be found and it was the basis for an appeal. I've also seen cases dropped when the star witness can no longer be fo

I've never been in such an extremely long trial, so it may be done differently in this case. You could subpoena halfway through trial and still give them 90 days notice! However, they should definitely have a PI tracking him down.

Normally we subpoena people who live out of state and/or work 6-8 weeks before so that they have time to arrange to be off work. For other witnesses we generally go 2 weeks before. Just in case it gets bumped or rescheduled. We try to avoid having all of those subpoena fees until we really know it's happening.

We try to only call witnesses who are willing to testify for us, so we don't HAVE to do subpoenas most of the time. We simply tell them what day we think we will need them and then give them a heads up a couple hours before. This way they aren't sitting in the hall all day. This is how we handle 90% of our witnesses, we have much better luck when we don't anger the witnesses from the get go. If they need a subpoena we are happy to provide one.

Here's an example. The next trial we are doing we are calling 10 witnesses. 1 needs a subpoena to get off work and come from out of state, only reason they need one. 1 is law enforcement so has to have a subpoena. 1 is a state witness that we think the state realizes is going to hurt them, so we are adding them to our witness list because they help us greatly.

We've tried in vain to get in contact and find out what day/time would work best. Since they have refused to respond they will be subpoenaed for the entire 2 week trial. The other 7 witnesses we are calling won't even get a subpoena from us. The state is also calling 2 of them, so they will likely get intimidation subpoenas from the state.

We have subpoenaed witnesses 72 hours before a hearing. They knew the hearing was coming up but weren't easy to serve. They complained about short notice and the judge said "Well, you made it here so that's a non issue."

Really it just varies so much. However with it being a months long trial, I wouldn't be surprised if subpoenas go out throughout the trial.

Thanks for your input @MsFacetious ! I am really concerned if they can't find him that it could be the basis for an appeal, I mean their whole defense is based around "DK did it" and if they are truly willing to put him on the stand and can't find him to subpoena him, it's an issue.
 
Seeing more of the State's evidence, I am increasingly confident things played out relatively spontaneously without any clever advance staging from Chase.

It seems most likely Joey did make it home. So the 5:47 pm call to Chase is key because Chase answers that call which places him at least 1 hr away if I understand the traffic conditions correctly. IMO hard words were said on this call.

In which case Chase does not arrive at the murder scene before 7pm

This fits perfectly with bath time.

However I do think @cobalt sky 's idea is a significant possibility. What if, in order to avoid fighting in front of Summer and the kids, Joey agrees to meet Chase locally - e.g. car park or similar? This would explain why the Trooper is not in the driveway. It's after dark, they park up. Chase attacks with the hammer in a wild fight. Wraps him and chucks the body in the back of the trooper.

Wild speculation ...

BBM above ... but apparently they had the surveillance video from 7pm on... so he had to have parked his truck before 7pm for it to have left at 7:47pm.

I have run through every scenario in my head and all the different scenario's that everyone posts... there always seems to be that one or two factors that makes it not "work" ... a phone ping... the video... the computer search times. Crazy!
 
And wouldn't you know it, Chase' phone was not connecting any towers:

84/18 And after the
19 3:54 P.M. call, which was in the Rancho Cucamonga area, there's
20 no call activity until 9:17 P.M.
21 Q So, over five hours of no activity on the 5th?
22 A Correct.

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Three - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

I checked that late last night too lol I hate this "no activity" stuff.... wish we knew if it was actually off or not.

When does the State say he was in the casino's? anyone remember? Might be in the OS... will have to go and look it up once I catch up!

ETA: in OS's, they talk about the Casino's but those didn't start until the 9th. No Casino info from before then.
 
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Not that I recall. I think Joey’s phone was connected to the internet throughout lunch and I wonder if that was him showing CM proof of the withdrawal on 2 Feb?

I thought of this, but then why wouldn't the Prosecutor say that? That would be more damning if they could prove that Joey and Chase were together AND he was accessing QB's at that time. They had him logging in/out before the lunch meeting. From what I understand, they can tell that his phone accessed the internet, but Quickbooks itself logged the time of the logins, so they would have been able to see it that way.
 
Niner is the Custodian of McStay Records. We are indebted to their service.

Yes thank you for correcting that. 13 attempted calls in 9 minutes. Average calling again and again in less than a minute. This is hard to explain away. This is something maybe you do if your car broke down and you're on the freeway or you lost your wallet/credit cards. He was about to meet his money-man and just spoke to him at 12:52.

Something's wrong.

I want to see the history of calls between the 2. Isolated it might look off, but was this a pattern? Is there other days that we see a pattern like that? They do seem to call each other often, we also have her calling him 4 or 5 times the evening of the 4th. I don't know how old their kids were at the time, but I think they were young... were the calls about picking up the kids from school? or hey, I'm meeting Joey, so can you do such and such... you know Joey, I'm going to be busy for a few hours, etc. ... I hope Cathy testifies so she can maybe give us her take on some of this stuff, what was ordinary or out of the ordinary for them.

Also... finding out that he switched cell phones shortly after the McStay's disappeared... I hope the reason was not because of coverage, connection issues!!!! I can see the defense saying that ... lol
 
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