CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

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...He'd already murdered four people and thought maybe murdering another few might be problematic? :)

I have a few thoughts about this, but I think the most pertinent is the 3 strikes point. He couldn't afford Joey or Summer to report him.

I did some looking last week. I don't believe the strikes applied to Chase's earlier charges. I know this has been brought up previously so went and did some research. They applied to serious and violent crimes. His convictions were not included in those that were included in "strike offenses".
 
IIRC, they didn't actually stop working as reported. She would only let detectives have a certain a portion of the recordings.


She testified that they stopped working. At at 23:30 is the testimony of when the system stopped working. Also, IIRC in her testimony, she didn't care if they took a copy of what they needed, she didn't want them taking her whole system. A family had just disappeared, she was concerned for her safety, and also her privacy since she had 2 cams inside the house as well (can't say I blame her for that). They could have taken any other footage that was necessary and she allowed them to come and view and take copies.

 
"Cohen said he also established a shared bank account, putting up $10,000 for materials.

But the money started to disappear, and the projects rarely came to completion.

“He wouldn’t do the work. He wouldn’t fill the orders. … It was always excuses, ‘the sun’s in my eyes,’” Cohen said.

By August 2013, Cohen had enough of a man he said he came to completely distrust. He ended their business dealings."




This ^^ part shows the same pattern that the State describes, that created conflict between him and Joey.


“I commissioned a few steel sculptures from Charles,” Adepoju said. “Next thing I know, I was his piggy-bank and he owed me over $4,000. I’m glad that we did not follow though with the registration of our business.“
Despite Merritt referring to Adepoju’s Hesperia office as “his office,” Adepoju said the cowboy hat-wearing metal worker only came Adepoju’s office when he needed money. After Adepoju discovered Merritt’s “shady background,” he quickly cut ties with him and took him to court to get his money."



Again, that ^^^^ is the same pattern. Chase makes promises that he does not keep, and begins taking Money that he cannot or does not pay back.


The above info does not 'prove' that Chase killed the McStay family. But it does show a likely motive and an explanation for the discord and animosity that permeated their business relationship at the end.


I think that this information could be interpreted in different ways. IMO it does prove that Merritt was a skilled con and that there are a lot of gullible people in this world. But it also proves that Merritt really didn't need Joey after all... he quickly, easily, and successfully found new targets. Also, he apparently wasn't too afraid of the 3-strike law after all, as he continued to swindle people even after the McStays went missing. So, why bludgeon the entire family to death? He could have just walked away and found new people to con (which he later did).

Also, I think it's important to remember that the state's theory is that Chase murdered the McStays because Joey fired Chase that day and planned to report him to LE. But the key word here is THEORY. This is a circumstantial case, there is no evidence at all that I have seen thus far that Joey was angry at Chase, that he fired him, or that he planned to turn him in to LE. Just because "Danimal said so" or "Gina said so" does not make it true. Could it be true? Absolutely. But again, I have not seen any evidence proving this as of yet. I would really love to hear from the bank employee(s) that took Joey's calls that day on the 4th.

I'm just not convinced yet that the family was murdered over the checks Merritt wrote. I still think Merritt could have murdered them, but I just don't know that it was over money or Joey going to LE, I really think something else was going on and something else happened that day.
 
That's not proof that CM was using JM's computer.
Respectfully, it sort of is proof. But for the sake of argument, let's say someone else was in the home and made the check, then deleting it. Maybe they are trying to frame Chase. But if they wanted to do that, why not leave the bodies there as well? Why cart them off 100 miles away and bury them?

But then the very next day we know for a fact Chase is doing the exact same thing on his own computer, cashing the checks and going to casinos with Joseph's money. He's also backdating the checks. The defense still has yet to explain that.

Chase never told detectives that Joseph allowed him to print these checks, only that Joseph met him on the 4th to give him checks. So when he's finally caught up with weeks later he's attempting to alibi himself and cover his a$$.

On Feb 9th he's calling QB posing as Joseph to cancel the online version because Joseph asked him to. None of that makes any sense. Why wouldn't Joseph do that himself? It just doesn't hold up.

So while it's not direct proof Chase was on the home PC, it's hard to fathom that he wasn't with all the other things he's had his fingers in and lies he told.
 
She testified that they stopped working. At at 23:30 is the testimony of when the system stopped working. Also, IIRC in her testimony, she didn't care if they took a copy of what they needed, she didn't want them taking her whole system. A family had just disappeared, she was concerned for her safety, and also her privacy since she had 2 cams inside the house as well (can't say I blame her for that). They could have taken any other footage that was necessary and she allowed them to come and view and take copies.

I think Dugal stated otherwise and he contradicted her testimony.
 
That's the problem. This is a murder trial, not a theft trial. So far, not a single solid evidence to link him to the murder. If we focus on motives, CM was not the only one that could have a motive----though I'm not even sure he had the motive to murder the whole family.

CM is the only one on trial for murder though. We are only a fraction into the trial, hopefully you will find the evidence more compelling by the end of it. (Or not, it doesn't matter)
 
I think Dugal stated otherwise and he contradicted her testimony.

25:00 minutes in... he says asked her to take the unit, she said no. He tried to get a search warrant and couldn't. I know he says more about it in testimony somewhere else too. I really can't blame Mitchley, I don't think I would want to hand it over either.

 
Yeah I can imagine some of it but these are for very unfortunate blocks of time, even factoring in sleeping time.

Thurs 4th

5.48 pm to 9.32 pm (3 hrs 44 mins)


Thurs 4th/ Fri 5th

9.32 pm to 7.30 am (10 hrs)


Fri 5th

3.54 pm to 9.17 pm (5 hrs 23 mins)


Fri 5th/ Sat 6th

9.18 pm to 10.46 am (13 hrs)


Sat 6th

10.46 am to 1.30 pm - pings around Victorville


Sat 6th/ Sun 7th

3.14 pm to 10.35 am (19 hrs 21 mins)


Sun 7th/ Mon 8th

5.17 pm to 7.26 am (14 hrs)


Mon 8th

7.26 am to 1.31 pm (6 hrs)


I put together a rough calendar style info graphic of his cell phone pings from the prelim testimony. Red zones indicate all the times his phone was “dark”. Very interesting to see it visually. I think he was going back to the house daily/nightly for cleanup and staging purposes. I also overlaid info from the recent testimony re: computer searches.
I think the largest things that stood out to me after looking at it like this is that he definitely left the grave site around noonish and headed back towards Victorville and came back to grave sites afterwards. Maybe it was raining too hard so he went somewhere to wait it out, or just took a break, or went to get some kind of supplies, but either way it shows he left and came back which explains the two sets of tracks. Also that on the 4th around the 7-8 pm time frame is the only large time span where there are no calls, texts, internet activity from or to either Joey, Summer, or CM.
 

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This is why I think the cam would have caught a vehicle also passing earlier. But if it was before 7pm... no way to know if there was a vehicle but they didn't think it was connected so they didn't take that video. They should have taken all the video, they could have copied it IMO
BBM That is what I have been saying all along and you seem not to have understood me. The camera angle would have caught, and did catch, a vehicle passing earlier.

Those passing vehicles could have been going to any house, so they can't use the footage in court to say that was the truck that left the house.

If it turned into the McStay drive they could use it, there would be tail lights showing the truck turning in like they showed the Dodge turning in in daylight.

But we know the truck didn't turn in it was backed in, so it must have driven past and reversed in which would not be in camera range if you try to imagine the maneuver. The headlights would sweep from the end of the road and across the houses to the left of the Mitchley house (looking at it from being in her house). They only captured the headlights of it emerging from the driveway and leaving because it turned towards Mitchley house.

Same if Joey arrived home earlier at 5.45 pm. If he's driving past to the end of the cul de sac to turn around and drive back to park in the street he would be out of camera range when he parked. That side of the street and the sidewalk is not in view.

I think it makes sense that the Trooper was parked in the street (additional evidence) because the passing vehicle at night is driving on Mitchley's side of the street, in other words the vehicle wasn't driving on the side of the street it was supposed to be on.
 
Respectfully, it sort of is proof.

Right

Unfortunately the process of drawing legal inferences is frequently misunderstood in trials so perhaps it is worth restating briefly here.

Inference is the process by which additional conclusions are reached even though they were not directly established by evidence at trial.

As in any case, our jury has a number of forensic and other evidence points to review. This is the circumstantial evidence.

So the jury must ask itself whether it accepts that someone created and deleted the lower case cheques on the McStay computer on the night of the 4th. Let's also say for arguments sake that the jury accepts that on other occasions before and after the 4th, someone created and deleted similar cheques, and cashed/deposited them, not from the McStays computer.

At this point a Jury is required to draw logical and natural inferences from these data points. Some of these inferences are so obvious, that the jury may not even realise it is establishing additional facts directly from the trial evidence.

For example, because there is evidence Chase was in possession of some of the fraudulent cheques, the jury may infer that it was Chase who created them. This is hardly controversial. And it becomes another established fact - proven via irresistible inference.

Therefore because of this inference, the jury may further infer that it was Chase who created the cheques on 4 February. He created all the others ones so it is highly likely he created these ones as well.

This would then become another fact, established via the process of legal inference.

It's the same with the video of the truck. If the jury accepts it's chase truck, the jury will automatically infer Chase was driving it despite there being no direct evidence of that fact.

The jury must directly confront the implications of the evidence. It cannot throw it's arms in the air and say 'there is no proof of who was driving"
 
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I'm just not convinced yet that the family was murdered over the checks Merritt wrote. I still think Merritt could have murdered them, but I just don't know that it was over money or Joey going to LE, I really think something else was going on and something else happened that day.

Joey was growing up from being an entrepreneur to actually being more strategic with his business.

If you read the email Joey sent to his webhost about the DK relationship, he explains quite clearly that he wants to de-risk as he has kids to look after and big responsibilities. He intends to lower risk by taking far more control. This is why he is ending his partnership with DK (though continuing to work with him).

IMO he simply reached the same conclusion with CM whether or not he sacked him that day.

The partnership was over. CM was either out, or would be treated strictly as a vendor. As Joey controlled the sales pipe, and the $$ he had all the leverage.

Either way, given the insight the web host email offers into Joey's thinking, I believe it is non-sensical that Joey was about to allow this kind of obvious theft to continue when it could kill his business.
 
I put together a rough calendar style info graphic of his cell phone pings from the prelim testimony. Red zones indicate all the times his phone was “dark”. Very interesting to see it visually. I think he was going back to the house daily/nightly for cleanup and staging purposes. I also overlaid info from the recent testimony re: computer searches.
I think the largest things that stood out to me after looking at it like this is that he definitely left the grave site around noonish and headed back towards Victorville and came back to grave sites afterwards. Maybe it was raining too hard so he went somewhere to wait it out, or just took a break, or went to get some kind of supplies, but either way it shows he left and came back which explains the two sets of tracks. Also that on the 4th around the 7-8 pm time frame is the only large time span where there are no calls, texts, internet activity from or to either Joey, Summer, or CM.

This is great!
 
That's what I am leaning towards. Joey, being the generous, laid back Cali type guy, probably gave Chase 'one more chance.'

We should not forget that Chase is a seasoned conman

Joey only just discovered the fraud and didn't yet have a lot of time to get to the bottom of it.

We don't know what lies Chase told Joey in the calls and at lunch but I guarantee he lied his head off

This is also why I don't believe Joey was murdered at lunch.

The first resort of this abusive personality type is to control the victim with the usual mechanisms. deflection, sob stories, promises to reform etc etc

IMO this likely escalated to threats

Murder happened when Joey could not be controlled as normal.

But again this is a typical pattern for this sort of abusive personality type. They escalate until they do something that can no longer be concealed. This is because they lack impulse control.
 
Respectfully that doesn't make sense to me.

If he was making all of this money working for Joey as a subcontractor then why was he having to steal from Joey?

And why wouldn't he have paid him back for the 43K he owed him or at least paid some of it?

Does that mean after Joey went missing no one else would hire him as a sub to do welding work? Welders are usually in high demand, and have a heavy workload.

He was just an independent self employed subcontractor of Joey's. He was free to work with any other companies.

He could have easily subcontracted for other companies after Joey went missing.

Imo

We know the real reason he went bankrupt

He lost all his money gambling.
 
This was stated a while back - but just catching up on the 150 plus posts here! :

Mica from article said:
But speaking on CNN in 2010 he said: 'My understanding was in the last year he’d been having these vertigo type symptoms. He was in the hospital for a couple of weeks, and on the (February) 4, he was talking to my mother and he had to pull over when he was driving home because he felt vertigo type symptoms.'

Is this phone documented in his calls. This IS for Feb. 4, 2010 - right?

I saw someone mention that there were NO records of this call, is that correct too?

TIA! Great discussions guys!

And Tortoise - I like your detailed timelines!
 
hmm see, I don't buy into him being fired or going to be fired... not yet anyway! I need to see more evidence of that first ...

Not fired. Competition with another welder. Maybe this is what Chase didn’t like.

Snip

P. MCSTAY: Joey discussed with me about getting another welder.

KAYE: Cutting Chase out.

P. MCSTAY: Well not virtually cutting him out, giving him some competition.

CNN.com - Transcripts
 
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