CA CA - John Beck, 73, Alameda, 9 Feb 2016 #1

[Secrett]

For what it's worth, the blog is back up http://findjohnbeck.blogspot.com/

 

[Damarna]

For what it's worth, the blog is back up http://findjohnbeck.blogspot.com/

Glad to see that!

 

[Timekeeper65]

For what it's worth, the blog is back up http://findjohnbeck.blogspot.com/

Whew. Thanks for this.

:candle:

 

[1&2&3]

My question is regarding his 1+ million pension fund. I saw the question asked, but did not see an answer if this is safe from the government.

My presumption is that it is safe or he would not have made that contributation to it from the $660,000 property sold before he filed for bankruptcy.

If this is true that it is safe, at 73, his pension fund should be enough to live on the rest of he and his wife's life. What do you think? In addition to it, he will top out of SS and his wife will get half the amount he gets even if she never worked. Sounds like a fairly nice retirement to me.

 

[cujenn81]

Or he visited these places quickly to be seen on purpose.

Riddle: What is a magician's biggest tool?

Distraction?

 

[cujenn81]

My question is regarding his 1+ million pension fund. I saw the question asked, but did not see an answer if this is safe from the government.

My presumption is that it is safe or he would not have made that contributation to it from the $660,000 property sold before he filed for bankruptcy.

If this is true that it is safe, at 73, his pension fund should be enough to live on the rest of he and his wife's life. What do you think? In addition to it, he will top out of SS and his wife will get half the amount he gets even if she never worked. Sounds like a fairly nice retirement to me.

I just found this...

http://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/f...Imposition-and-Enforcement-of-Restitution.pdf

(It looks like they CANNOT liquidate and seize pension funds.)

Pension Plans and IRA’s.
One kind of asset that sentencing courts probably cannot reach is an employer pension plan. Many employer pension plans are covered by the anti-alienation provisions of ERISA,49 which might protect the plan from forced liquidation. Courts have found themselves embroiled in litigation trying to determine whether the pension plan was so protected and whether the court could reach it for ordering restitution. However, as the Fourth Circuit recently held, in U.S. v. Aramony, that even where pension benefits cannot be ordered to be surrendered, the court can take such benefits into account in assessing a defendant’s overall income and prospective ability to pay.

 

[Lilibet]

Hmmm...really a complex situation with so many variables and so much silence, almost suddenly. Would there be legal ramifications to "taking off" or was he free to disappear? If he voluntarily left, it would suggest he had managed to hide some cash. I suppose that would be illegal in light of the judgements against him.

I'm wondering if he has made contact? The silence seems to indicate a shift.

I'm not sure about the legality of disappearing, but according to this court document from 8/19/2015 regarding the liquidation of his assets if he lost his appeal, he and his wife had to sign any documents necessary and cooperate so that the property could be sold. Under those conditions, it seems that it would be illegal to disappear. See page 14.

http://www.robbevans.com/assets/case-files/johnbeckorder01.pdf

So, if he knew he had lost the appeal before the filing on 3/3/16, disappearing would mean he wouldn't be there to sign the documents. I can't imagine that the liquidation couldn't occur without his signature, but it could be delayed. His wife could then stay in the house, perhaps?

 

[Lilibet]

I just found this...

http://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/f...Imposition-and-Enforcement-of-Restitution.pdf

(It looks like they CANNOT liquidate and seize pension funds.)

Pension Plans and IRA’s.
One kind of asset that sentencing courts probably cannot reach is an employer pension plan. Many employer pension plans are covered by the anti-alienation provisions of ERISA,49 which might protect the plan from forced liquidation. Courts have found themselves embroiled in litigation trying to determine whether the pension plan was so protected and whether the court could reach it for ordering restitution. However, as the Fourth Circuit recently held, in U.S. v. Aramony, that even where pension benefits cannot be ordered to be surrendered, the court can take such benefits into account in assessing a defendant’s overall income and prospective ability to pay.

BBM

Thanks for this! I wonder if that applies to someone who is self employed and set up a personal retirement fund. I have a feeling that John was always self employed.

I reached out to one of our verified attorneys a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. I expect she's busy, so I'll try a different one. I think we need one.

ETA: I've reached out to two more verified attorneys. In the words of Nancy (gag) Grace..."Unleash the lawyers."

 

[Secrett]

Just an aside, today is the day John's court date was rescheduled to.

"Beck filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy on Nov. 30, 2015. The courts appointed Richard K. Diamond trustee for the case. And it appears that, despite Beck’s absence at the Feb. 9 meeting, motions for his Chapter 7 bankruptcy are moving forward.
On Feb. 24 and 25 Diamond filed paperwork concerning Beck’s requirement to take a financial-management course. Records also show that bankruptcy attorney Carl Gustafson is scheduled to appear with Beck at the March 8 meeting."

snipped from
http://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

 

[moonriverfarm]

JMHO - he is now living under an alias in a country far away, where he can blend in and not be noticed. He squirreled money away knowing he would do this. It seems the selfish way out to me, but we read about expats in self exile being caught many years later, so maybe one day he will surface.

 

[neesaki]

Hmmm...really a complex situation with so many variables and so much silence, almost suddenly. Would there be legal ramifications to "taking off" or was he free to disappear? If he voluntarily left, it would suggest he had managed to hide some cash. I suppose that would be illegal in light of the judgements against him.

I'm wondering if he has made contact? The silence seems to indicate a shift.

It's not an uncommon practice to put cash back for savings, especially for someone in his age range who realizes what can happen to the economy and the banking system, if it crashed, etc. Banks only insure up to a certain amount through FDIC, so cash can be a bit of extra security. Cash also allows more anonymity than using bank accounts and credit cards. It sounds to me as though John was quite savy in these ways, I would bet he had a good amount of cash stored away somewhere, JMO.

 

[cujenn81]

BBM

Thanks for this! I wonder if that applies to someone who is self employed and set up a personal retirement fund. I have a feeling that John was always self employed.

I reached out to one of our verified attorneys a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. I expect she's busy, so I'll try a different one. I think we need one.

ETA: I've reached out to two more verified attorneys. In the words of Nancy (gag) Grace..."Unleash the lawyers."

my brother is a lawyer... maybe he knows! I'll ask him.

 

[kimi_SFC]

my brother is a lawyer... maybe he knows! I'll ask him.

:tyou:


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[cujenn81]

:tyou:


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Hahahaha... he works in appellate court and this was his response:

I'm sorry. I have no idea. Tell them your brother is an idiot. [emoji16] Business law was my worst class. Ask me about evidence or constitutional law.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Hahahaha... he works in appellate court and this was his response:

I'm sorry. I have no idea. Tell them your brother is an idiot. [emoji16] Business law was my worst class. Ask me about evidence or constitutional law.

:giggle:
:floorlaugh:

Sorry, there hasn't been much to smile about around here. Your effort is still much appreciated. He didn't even charge us!

:sleuth: on :websleuther:

:grouphug:


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[Lilibet]

Hahahaha... he works in appellate court and this was his response:

I'm sorry. I have no idea. Tell them your brother is an idiot. [emoji16] Business law was my worst class. Ask me about evidence or constitutional law.

Too funny! Tell him thank you for his humility!!! :tyou:

 

[Lilibet]

It's not an uncommon practice to put cash back for savings, especially for someone in his age range who realizes what can happen to the economy and the banking system, if it crashed, etc. Banks only insure up to a certain amount through FDIC, so cash can be a bit of extra security. Cash also allows more anonymity than using bank accounts and credit cards. It sounds to me as though John was quite savy in these ways, I would bet he had a good amount of cash stored away somewhere, JMO.

I agree about the stashed cash possibility. My dh and joke that we should move our money to "The Bank of Mattress" just to keep it safe from a crash. Surely John knew as early as 2009, when the FTC filed its case that it might not go his way. I'm not condoning cash stashing under those circumstances, but I would expect him to do it, as codefendant Gravink did in 2008. JMO

 

[persimmon]

It's also possible he didn't so much sell property to his daughter but transfered it? This would have saved it from a government acquisition. That could then provide him another asset to be sold by his daughter at a later date giving him cash access. I am torn at this point wondering where he is and if his loved ones know the answer? I would prefer to think that is the case and I can empathize with his situation.

When we read legal documents regarding his case, I'm conscious of the fact that we don't get the full story. We get what was brought out in court to attach guilt. A defendant never gets an opportunity to tell their story really...so it's often very one dimensional.

 

[Lilibet]

One of our "in house" attorneys may be stopping by to help out with our bankruptcy questions. She enjoyed and did well in her bankruptcy course.

I'm going to post some of the documents and our basic questions. Feel free to join in.

1) Can the liquidation include his retirement money if it is his own rather than a pension from an employer (which seems to be untouchable as posted upthread)?

2) The government said he was "manipulative" to file Chapter 11 and forced him into Chapter 7. Why?

3)He has to sign documents and cooperate with the liquidator. Would disappearing slow down the liquidation so his wife could stay in the family home?

The most recent articles:

http://alamedasun.com/news/alameda-man-disappears
http://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

Liquidator appointed:
http://www.robbevans.com/assets/case-files/johnbeckstipulation01.pdf

I can't get the file from 8-19-15 to come over here. It deals with Beck and his wife having to cooperate with the liquidator. Here is the heading at the top.
[COLOR=rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%, 100.000000%)]Case 2:09-cv-04719-MWF-CW Document 841 Filed 08/19/15 Page 1 of 17 Page ID #:30617 [/COLOR]

 

[Tssiemer]

JMHO - he is now living under an alias in a country far away, where he can blend in and not be noticed. He squirreled money away knowing he would do this. It seems the selfish way out to me, but we read about expats in self exile being caught many years later, so maybe one day he will surface.

I just can't believe this. He reminds me so much of my grandfather (even though JB is younger than my dad, buuuuut I don't want to talk about him.) I just don't understand how he could do that and leave his family holding the bag. Id rather believe he died of a medical emergency or even suicide. While that's still leaving them with all this, when you are suicidal you are in a very dark, lonely place and it's not easy to get out of. He's in the high risk range for suicide (age, stress, being a male, war vet, etc.)


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